Daniel wrote to All <=-
Good news. Tell us how you get along. I considered getting a c64 from perifractic but I can't get over the funky keyboard layout of the commodores. I have a mini and can't really find a good for it. And I'm
not nostalgic for the games.
I hope you find a treasure in that pile of floppies.
Mortar M. wrote to Kalevi Kolttonen <=-
You've never used Algol.
Algol begat Pascal. Pascal is the mother language for pretty much every modern programming language today.
My bad. I ment APL. Keep getting those confused.
Bo Holt wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-|03Quoting message from |11Dennis Katsonis |03to |11Mortar M.
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Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
By: Mortar M. to Dennis Katsonis on Sat Apr 11 2026 01:41 pm
Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
By: Dennis Katsonis to marika on Fri Apr 10 2026 22:44:14
To be frank, C64 basic wasn't that great, even back then.
Agreed. Considering the number of Commodore micros already in the wild, yo think they'd have improved the BASIC for the VIC and 64, as these were inte for non-computer savvy people.
My first computer was a VZ 200, which predated the C64 (I think it was s as a V-Tech 200 in the US.
I vaguely remember reading about this in magazines, but never actually seen one. After looking it up online, I can see why. It was only around for tw year and had low specs. No way could it have competed with the likes of th C=64 or even the Atari 400. However, it did not pre-date the 64. The VZ-2 came out in '83, while the 64 came out a year earlier.
I got the VZ200 in 1991, quite a bit after it release. My parents got it garage sale cheap (buying a new computer was a bit much back then, just fo to use). It was a bit dissapointing as I wanted the Atari 1040STE, but as had just been introduced to BASIC at school, it was fun to try BASIC at ho and draw graphics and make basic games.
Dick Smith started an electronics store called, Dick Smith Electronics, an VZ 200 was their rebrand, sold with his face on it.
A little later that year, they got a Vic 20 at a garage sale, which had be graphics, but lacked the drawing commands. A little later, the C64 came, second hand. You could do sprites, but again, no graphics. Not without entering some other machine code subroutines.
I suppose they had to get it out quick, and once it was out, you can't pat it.
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I am 45. My gradnfather got me a Timex Sinclair when I was 2, CoCo2
when I turned 5 (really cut my teeth on that one), then his
hand-me-down Amstrad PC1512DD when I was in the fourth grade, and then
in 192 started as an apprentice at our local computer store and learned
to build machines and built my 486DX-33. I never stopped working in
the field since I started in 1992, and I started BBSing back on the
CoCo2. I never knew anyone with a Commodore when I was growing up, so
I'm enjoying living an alternate-reality childhood with the C64U. I'm trying to spark an interest in computers with my nephews and nieces
(they are much younger than 5 still), they already love allmy vintage electronics I bring, and it's fun to play with these things with them.
Mortar M. wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-
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Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate Starlight
By: Dennis Katsonis to Mortar M. on Sun Apr 12 2026 11:25:58
I suppose they had to get it out quick, and once it was out, you can't patch
Nope. However, the BASIC and Kernal ROMs were socketed, so it is
possible to replace the originals with new ones. However, Commodore
was a very cost-conscious company so such an expense would've probably been rejected outright.
Nope. However, the BASIC and Kernal ROMs were socketed, so it is
possible to replace the originals with new ones.
The problem is you can't rework the already sold units.
Then you have incompatible BASIC variants, leaving the original buyers in the cold.
Mortar M. wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-
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Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate
By: Dennis Katsonis to Mortar M. on Tue Apr 14 2026 23:48:00
Nope. However, the BASIC and Kernal ROMs were socketed, so it is
possible to replace the originals with new ones.
The problem is you can't rework the already sold units.
I believe I just indicated you could. If Commodore followed this path, the chips could've been sold as an upgrade, for those who wanted to
make the change.
Then you have incompatible BASIC variants, leaving the original buyers in the cold.
Unlike business systems where compatibility is important, the home
market at that time had no such need. As you indicated, there were already numerous BASIC dialects in the wild, by Commodore and
third-party vendors and thanks to various sources like magazines, user groups, etc., most were supported in some fashion.
That may be true. I'm thinking of all the books and magazines that
had listings. They would have had to have catered to the lowest
common denominator (the built in BASIC).
I did get my daughters to enjoy a few Commodore 64 games on the
emulator, mainly "Ducks Ahoy", "International Soccer" and "Decathlon".
they watched my play "Beamrider" which was a favourite of mine too.
Never got them into programming. They have Windows laptops now, and
use those, but aren't that interested in learning how they actually
work.
Its hard to get them intersted, as there are so many distractions.
One thing that helped our generation, was when you got those microcomputeres, there wasn't much eles you could to but program.
Now, a new computer instantly has internet, YouTube, all the
distractions. Back then, there was nothing, so may as well go through
the manual.
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Bo Holt wrote to Daniel <=-
In elementary, our school was also dominated by Apple IIes, but no programming. Just a bunch of MECC games. In high school they taught basic computer skills and typing.
Mortar M. wrote to Dennis Katsonis <=-
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Re: Re: Commodore 64 Ultimate
By: Dennis Katsonis to Mortar M. on Sun Apr 19 2026 16:49:00
That may be true. I'm thinking of all the books and magazines that
had listings. They would have had to have catered to the lowest
common denominator (the built in BASIC).
Many of them did. I had quite a library of such books, as well as
dialect specific ones. Some books even included a section on
converting between BASICs.
Sad.
For me, the schools didn't have much in the way of computers, but we got a to them (by hook or by crook) and learned programming on our own. By the my high school offered a computer class (programming), several of us alrea knew more than the teacher.
My dad taught computers in Jr. High and it was closer to what you describe Learn how to use the computer and was light on programming.
But it also reminds me of the types of computers.
When I started, the school had TRS-80's - mostly ones that the PTA purchas for them.
Later, they all went Commodore PET - mostly because Commodore offered the schools deals (I think it was a buy 3 for the price of 2).
It wasn't until much later that Apple realized that the computer kids use the schools are the ones that they ask their parents to purchase for home offered even better "deals" (i.e. they looked like deals, but Apple was pa off their unsellable hardware).
... No, no, nurse! I said SLIP off his SPECTACLES!!
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