• Re: The ultimate foundation of [a priori] Truth

    From Richard Damon@[email protected] to sci.logic,sci.lang,alt.philosophy,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Sun Jan 4 15:56:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 1/4/26 3:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/4/2026 1:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/4/26 12:59 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/4/2026 6:41 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 10:56 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 9:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 9:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 8:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 9:42 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 8:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 8:48 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 7:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 7:09 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 5:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 4:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 3:36 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 1:40 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 10:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 8:09 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/26 12:09 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/2/2026 9:18 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/26 8:30 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/2/2026 5:43 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/26 6:10 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/2026 3:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/26 4:24 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2018 11:56 AM, Pete Olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/17/2018 12:42 AM, Pete Olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a Collection is defined one or more things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that have one or more properties in common. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These operations from set theory are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available: {⊆, ∈} >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    An BaseFact is an expression X of (natural >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or formal) language L that has been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned the semantic property of True. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Similar to a math Axiom). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    A Collection T of BaseFacts of language L >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forms the ultimate foundation of the notion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Truth in language L. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    To verify that an expression X of language >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> L is True or False only requires a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> syntactic logical consequence inference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chain (formal proof) from one or more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elements of T to X or ~X. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    True(L, X) ↔ ∃Γ ⊆ BaseFact(L) Provable(Γ, X)
    False(L, X) ↔ ∃Γ ⊆ BaseFact(L) Provable(Γ, ~X)

    Copyright 2018 (and many other years since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1997) Pete Olcott


    Truth is the set of interlocking concepts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can be formalized symbolically. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    All of formalized Truth is only about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relations between finite strings of characters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This exact same Truth can be equally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed (tokenized) as relations between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integers.


    2026 update
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language"
    is entirely expressed as relations between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite strings
    of characters.

    This by itself makes
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language"
    reliably computable.


    No, not until you can do the first, which you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't unless you make you system "small". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    All you are doing it proving you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are talking about. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is exactly what someone would say that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
    understand what I am talking about. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    YOU don't know what you are talking about, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I coined the term ignorance squared back in 1998. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One cannot discern one's own ignorance because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this requires the missing knowledge to see the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference.

    And you are just ignorance cubed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Here is the same idea in much greater depth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Formalism_(philosophy_of_mathematics) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Right, and Hilbert was proven WRONG, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> admitted it.


    It sure would seem that way to everyone that did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not devote half their life to finding complete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity.

    No, he was proven WRONG, and he admitted it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    He may have admitted it but he was not actually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been proven wrong.

    Sure he was.

    Can you actually prove he was right?


    Yes

    Then why haven't you?

    Your current arguements have all been based on bad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitions.


    Not just based on an argument that starts by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuming him right.



    All of computation can be construed as applying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite
    string transformation rules to finite string inputs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Yes, but some results are not computable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Anything that cannot be so derived is outside of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scope of computation.

    You don't understand what you are talking about. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Yes, if it can't be described as a transformation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is out of scope.


    See that you proved that you do understand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I am talking about.

    So, you don't know what a transformation is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Halting *IS* a transformation of input to output, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just not a computable transformation.


    All deciders essentially: Transform finite string >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs by finite string transformation rules into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {Accept, Reject} values.

    The ultimate measure the actual sequence of steps that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the actual finite string input specifies to HHH(DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is DD simulated by HHH according to the semantics of C. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Nope. The problem is you HHH doesn't simulated its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input according to the semantics of C, in part because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the input you try to give doesn't have meaning by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics of C, since it deosn't define HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    That DD is simulated by HHH according to the semantics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of C has been proven to be a sufficient definition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH for 100 LLM conversations across four different LLMs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    WHich just shows that those LLMs are wrong.


    All deciders essentially: Transform finite string >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs by finite string transformation rules into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {Accept, Reject} values.

    Yes, that is what they CAN do.


    If you could manage to pay 100% complete attention >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (this might actually be completely impossible)

    You would see that no alternative better finite
    string transformation rules for HHH can possibly exist. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    For a particular HHH, there is only one possible
    transform, the one that it is programmed.


    For every HHH/DD pair that can possibly exist
    the halting problem requirements exceed the
    scope of the possible finite string transformations
    that HHH can apply to its input.


    Nope.

    As for every HHH/DD pair, there is a different DD which has >>>>>>>>>>>> a definite behavior, and thus is within the scope of a >>>>>>>>>>>> problem in Computing.


    For every instance of pathological self-reference
    HHH/DD pairs the halting problem requires behavior
    that is outside of the scope of computation.


    Nope.

    Where do you get that from?

    The behavior of DD is derived form string transforms of the >>>>>>>>>> input, which show that (for your HHHs that answer) will halt. >>>>>>>>>>

    *Your ADD must me much worse than I thought*
    There are no finite string transformations
    that HHH can apply to its input DD that would
    show that DD reaches its own final halt state.

    But the definition is not "that HHH can do", and such a
    definition is absurd, as HHH does only one transform.


    HHH(DD) cannot possibly == UTM(DD)
    proving that the halting problem requirement
    is outside the scope of computation.

    But the problem is the DDs give to both are the same, so mean the >>>>>> same.


    *I have been using the correct measure all along*
    *I have been using the correct measure all along*
    *I have been using the correct measure all along*

    You THINK you have, but haven't, as you never bothered to learn it.


    All deciders essentially: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    *I have been using the correct measure all along*
    *I have been using the correct measure all along*
    *I have been using the correct measure all along*

    Nope, as the above defines what they CAN do, and implies HOW they do
    it, not what they NEED to do to be correct.


    Any requirement outside of that scope is a
    requirement outside of the scope of computation.

    But, since there *IS* a finite string transformation that can be done
    to get the answer, that of the UTM, it is, by your own actual
    definition. in the scope.


    There is no finite string transformation that HHH can
    apply to its self-contradictory input DD that can
    possibly meet the requirement of the halting problem.
    This conclusively proves that the this requirement is
    outside of the scope of computation.

    You are equivocating again.

    Just shows you don't understand what you are talking about.

    By that definition, everything is right, as the only answer it could
    give is the one it gives.

    I could "require" my kitchen sink to bake me a
    birthday cake. Failing to do this is not the fault
    of my sink.

    Since your sink doesn't claim to be able to do that, that would be invalid.

    The problem is calling you decider a Halt Decider means it is claiming
    to be able to do the Halting Problem, which is just a lie.

    Your problem is you don't understand what you words are meaning, because
    you don't actually understand meaning, as that requires understand the difference between correct and incorrect.


    You eqivocate on that definition, by then trying to say that only the
    actions done by that decider are valid, but that gives you the
    absurdity that all machine, no matter what they do, are correct for
    any problem you might claim they are supposed to be doing, as any
    other answer would be outside the scope.

    This just means that you "logic system" is built on the fundamental
    that lying is OK, but requirements are not.

    That is the world of the pathological liar.


    Your problem is that "Correct", like "Truth" is a word you don't
    understand, because it seems to be a foreign concept to you.

    This is what make you a pathological liar.


    Your problem is you don't know what the words you are using mean, >>>>>> becasue, as you have admited, you never bothered to learn their
    meaning, and are using your own lies.


    It the same dirty trick that the Liar Paradox
    has been playing for thousands of years.

    No, it just show how little you know of what you talk.

    Your stupidity just shines bright to the world.


    There IS the transform of a UTM, which shows that DD halts.

    All you are doing is proving your stupidity,


    THus, it isn't outside the scope of computation, just outside >>>>>>>>>> your scope of understanding.















    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to sci.logic,sci.lang,alt.philosophy,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Sun Jan 4 18:13:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 1/4/2026 2:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/4/26 3:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/4/2026 1:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/4/26 12:59 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/4/2026 6:41 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 10:56 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 9:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 9:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 8:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 9:42 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 8:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 8:48 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 7:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 7:09 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 5:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 4:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/3/26 3:36 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 1:40 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/26 10:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 8:09 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/3/26 12:09 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/2/2026 9:18 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/26 8:30 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/2026 5:43 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/26 6:10 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/2026 3:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/2/26 4:24 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/2018 11:56 AM, Pete Olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/17/2018 12:42 AM, Pete Olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a Collection is defined one or more things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that have one or more properties in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> common. These operations from set theory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are available: {⊆, ∈} >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    An BaseFact is an expression X of (natural >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or formal) language L that has been >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned the semantic property of True. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Similar to a math Axiom). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    A Collection T of BaseFacts of language L >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forms the ultimate foundation of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notion of Truth in language L. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    To verify that an expression X of language >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> L is True or False only requires a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> syntactic logical consequence inference >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chain (formal proof) from one or more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elements of T to X or ~X. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    True(L, X) ↔ ∃Γ ⊆ BaseFact(L) Provable(Γ, X)
    False(L, X) ↔ ∃Γ ⊆ BaseFact(L) Provable(Γ,
    ~X)

    Copyright 2018 (and many other years since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1997) Pete Olcott


    Truth is the set of interlocking concepts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can be formalized symbolically. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    All of formalized Truth is only about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relations between finite strings of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characters.

    This exact same Truth can be equally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed (tokenized) as relations between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integers.


    2026 update
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language"
    is entirely expressed as relations between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite strings
    of characters.

    This by itself makes
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language"
    reliably computable.


    No, not until you can do the first, which you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't unless you make you system "small". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    All you are doing it proving you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are talking about. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is exactly what someone would say that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
    understand what I am talking about. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    YOU don't know what you are talking about, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I coined the term ignorance squared back in 1998. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One cannot discern one's own ignorance because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this requires the missing knowledge to see the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference.

    And you are just ignorance cubed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Here is the same idea in much greater depth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Formalism_(philosophy_of_mathematics) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Right, and Hilbert was proven WRONG, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> admitted it.


    It sure would seem that way to everyone that did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not devote half their life to finding complete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity.

    No, he was proven WRONG, and he admitted it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    He may have admitted it but he was not actually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been proven wrong.

    Sure he was.

    Can you actually prove he was right? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Yes

    Then why haven't you?

    Your current arguements have all been based on bad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitions.


    Not just based on an argument that starts by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuming him right.



    All of computation can be construed as applying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite
    string transformation rules to finite string >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs.

    Yes, but some results are not computable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Anything that cannot be so derived is outside of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the scope of computation.

    You don't understand what you are talking about. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Yes, if it can't be described as a transformation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is out of scope.


    See that you proved that you do understand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I am talking about.

    So, you don't know what a transformation is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Halting *IS* a transformation of input to output, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just not a computable transformation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    All deciders essentially: Transform finite string >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs by finite string transformation rules into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {Accept, Reject} values.

    The ultimate measure the actual sequence of steps that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the actual finite string input specifies to HHH(DD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is DD simulated by HHH according to the semantics of C. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Nope. The problem is you HHH doesn't simulated its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input according to the semantics of C, in part >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because the input you try to give doesn't have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning by the semantics of C, since it deosn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> define HHH.


    That DD is simulated by HHH according to the semantics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of C has been proven to be a sufficient definition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH for 100 LLM conversations across four different LLMs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    WHich just shows that those LLMs are wrong.


    All deciders essentially: Transform finite string >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inputs by finite string transformation rules into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {Accept, Reject} values.

    Yes, that is what they CAN do.


    If you could manage to pay 100% complete attention >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (this might actually be completely impossible) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You would see that no alternative better finite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> string transformation rules for HHH can possibly exist. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    For a particular HHH, there is only one possible >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transform, the one that it is programmed.


    For every HHH/DD pair that can possibly exist
    the halting problem requirements exceed the
    scope of the possible finite string transformations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that HHH can apply to its input.


    Nope.

    As for every HHH/DD pair, there is a different DD which has >>>>>>>>>>>>> a definite behavior, and thus is within the scope of a >>>>>>>>>>>>> problem in Computing.


    For every instance of pathological self-reference
    HHH/DD pairs the halting problem requires behavior
    that is outside of the scope of computation.


    Nope.

    Where do you get that from?

    The behavior of DD is derived form string transforms of the >>>>>>>>>>> input, which show that (for your HHHs that answer) will halt. >>>>>>>>>>>

    *Your ADD must me much worse than I thought*
    There are no finite string transformations
    that HHH can apply to its input DD that would
    show that DD reaches its own final halt state.

    But the definition is not "that HHH can do", and such a
    definition is absurd, as HHH does only one transform.


    HHH(DD) cannot possibly == UTM(DD)
    proving that the halting problem requirement
    is outside the scope of computation.

    But the problem is the DDs give to both are the same, so mean the >>>>>>> same.


    *I have been using the correct measure all along*
    *I have been using the correct measure all along*
    *I have been using the correct measure all along*

    You THINK you have, but haven't, as you never bothered to learn it.


    All deciders essentially: Transform finite string
    inputs by finite string transformation rules into
    {Accept, Reject} values.

    *I have been using the correct measure all along*
    *I have been using the correct measure all along*
    *I have been using the correct measure all along*

    Nope, as the above defines what they CAN do, and implies HOW they
    do it, not what they NEED to do to be correct.


    Any requirement outside of that scope is a
    requirement outside of the scope of computation.

    But, since there *IS* a finite string transformation that can be done
    to get the answer, that of the UTM, it is, by your own actual
    definition. in the scope.


    There is no finite string transformation that HHH can
    apply to its self-contradictory input DD that can
    possibly meet the requirement of the halting problem.
    This conclusively proves that the this requirement is
    outside of the scope of computation.

    You are equivocating again.




    Just shows you don't understand what you are talking about.

    By that definition, everything is right, as the only answer it could
    give is the one it gives.

    I could "require" my kitchen sink to bake me a
    birthday cake. Failing to do this is not the fault
    of my sink.

    Since your sink doesn't claim to be able to do that, that would be invalid.


    Computation inherently cannot accomplish
    anything that is not equivalent to finite
    string operations on the actual finite
    string that it actually gets.

    UTM(DD) is not equivalent to HHH(DD)
    because DD does not call UTM(DD).
    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@[email protected] to sci.logic,sci.lang,alt.philosophy,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Sun Jan 4 20:25:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 1/4/26 7:13 PM, olcott wrote:

    Computation inherently cannot accomplish
    anything that is not equivalent to finite
    string operations on the actual finite
    string that it actually gets.

    UTM(DD) is not equivalent to HHH(DD)
    because DD does not call UTM(DD).

    -

    Which just shows you don't understand the concept of REQUIREMENT, and
    think wrong answer are ok.

    You confuse the "scope" of what is POSSIBLE, with the scope of what it
    an allowed requirement.

    You seem to think it is improper to be able to ask about something that
    can't be done, which just means you can't ask a question you don't know
    the answer to, as you can't tell if it IS allowed, until you work out
    the answer.

    This just shows how screwed up your logic is, and come because of your fundamental confusion about the meaning of core terms that you chose not
    to learn.

    So, all you have shown is that you live in a fantasy world that doesn't
    match reality, and thus you search for truth is just logically
    impossible, as truth doesn't actually exist in your world.

    The domain of valid questions are *ANY* mapping of an input domain that
    can be expressed as finite strings, to outputs that can also be
    expressed as finite strings.

    Thus all such question are a form of "transform" from the input to the
    output, according to the rules that define that mapping.

    That some of these maps can not be computed by an algorithm is a major
    point of computation theory, which has a goal of determine what sort of questions *CAN* be computed.

    Your criteria is worthless, as you can't ask a question you don't have
    the answer to already.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to sci.logic,sci.lang,alt.philosophy,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Sun Jan 4 23:30:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 1/4/2026 7:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/4/26 7:13 PM, olcott wrote:

    Computation inherently cannot accomplish
    anything that is not equivalent to finite
    string operations on the actual finite
    string that it actually gets.

    UTM(DD) is not equivalent to HHH(DD)
    because DD does not call UTM(DD).

    -

    Which just shows you don't understand the concept of REQUIREMENT, and
    think wrong answer are ok.


    I proved the HP input is the same as the Liar Paradox back in 2004

    function LoopIfYouSayItHalts (bool YouSayItHalts):
    if YouSayItHalts () then
    while true do {}
    else
    return false;

    Does this program Halt?

    (Your (YES or NO) answer is to be considered
    translated to Boolean as the function's input
    parameter)

    Please ONLY PROVIDE CORRECT ANSWERS!

    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.logic/c/Hs78nMN6QZE/m/ID2rxwo__yQJ

    I had the answer 21 years ago

    Any yes/no question where both yes and no are the
    wrong answer is an incorrect question.

    You confuse the "scope" of what is POSSIBLE, with the scope of what it
    an allowed requirement.

    You seem to think it is improper to be able to ask about something that can't be done, which just means you can't ask a question you don't know
    the answer to, as you can't tell if it IS allowed, until you work out
    the answer.

    This just shows how screwed up your logic is, and come because of your fundamental confusion about the meaning of core terms that you chose not
    to learn.

    So, all you have shown is that you live in a fantasy world that doesn't match reality, and thus you search for truth is just logically
    impossible, as truth doesn't actually exist in your world.

    The domain of valid questions are *ANY* mapping of an input domain that
    can be expressed as finite strings, to outputs that can also be
    expressed as finite strings.

    Thus all such question are a form of "transform" from the input to the output, according to the rules that define that mapping.

    That some of these maps can not be computed by an algorithm is a major
    point of computation theory, which has a goal of determine what sort of questions *CAN* be computed.

    Your criteria is worthless, as you can't ask a question you don't have
    the answer to already.


    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@[email protected] to sci.logic,sci.lang,alt.philosophy,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon Jan 5 07:28:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 1/5/26 12:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/4/2026 7:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/4/26 7:13 PM, olcott wrote:

    Computation inherently cannot accomplish
    anything that is not equivalent to finite
    string operations on the actual finite
    string that it actually gets.

    UTM(DD) is not equivalent to HHH(DD)
    because DD does not call UTM(DD).

    -

    Which just shows you don't understand the concept of REQUIREMENT, and
    think wrong answer are ok.


    I proved the HP input is the same as the Liar Paradox back in 2004

    function LoopIfYouSayItHalts (bool YouSayItHalts):
       if YouSayItHalts () then
           while true do {}
        else
           return false;

    Does this program Halt?

    (Your (YES or NO) answer is to be considered
     translated to Boolean as the function's input
     parameter)

    Please ONLY PROVIDE CORRECT ANSWERS!

    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.logic/c/Hs78nMN6QZE/m/ID2rxwo__yQJ

    I had the answer 21 years ago

    Any yes/no question where both yes and no are the
    wrong answer is an incorrect question.

    Which, as pointed out before, just shows that you don't understand the
    actual problem and think making up your own can replace it,

    Sorry, you are just showing that you are just a pathological liar.



    You confuse the "scope" of what is POSSIBLE, with the scope of what it
    an allowed requirement.

    You seem to think it is improper to be able to ask about something
    that can't be done, which just means you can't ask a question you
    don't know the answer to, as you can't tell if it IS allowed, until
    you work out the answer.

    This just shows how screwed up your logic is, and come because of your
    fundamental confusion about the meaning of core terms that you chose
    not to learn.

    So, all you have shown is that you live in a fantasy world that
    doesn't match reality, and thus you search for truth is just logically
    impossible, as truth doesn't actually exist in your world.

    The domain of valid questions are *ANY* mapping of an input domain
    that can be expressed as finite strings, to outputs that can also be
    expressed as finite strings.

    Thus all such question are a form of "transform" from the input to the
    output, according to the rules that define that mapping.

    That some of these maps can not be computed by an algorithm is a major
    point of computation theory, which has a goal of determine what sort
    of questions *CAN* be computed.

    Your criteria is worthless, as you can't ask a question you don't have
    the answer to already.





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  • From olcott@[email protected] to sci.logic,sci.lang,alt.philosophy,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon Jan 5 08:59:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 1/5/2026 6:28 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/5/26 12:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 1/4/2026 7:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 1/4/26 7:13 PM, olcott wrote:

    Computation inherently cannot accomplish
    anything that is not equivalent to finite
    string operations on the actual finite
    string that it actually gets.

    UTM(DD) is not equivalent to HHH(DD)
    because DD does not call UTM(DD).

    -

    Which just shows you don't understand the concept of REQUIREMENT, and
    think wrong answer are ok.


    I proved the HP input is the same as the Liar Paradox back in 2004

    function LoopIfYouSayItHalts (bool YouSayItHalts):
        if YouSayItHalts () then
            while true do {}
         else
            return false;

    Does this program Halt?

    (Your (YES or NO) answer is to be considered
      translated to Boolean as the function's input
      parameter)

    Please ONLY PROVIDE CORRECT ANSWERS!

    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.logic/c/Hs78nMN6QZE/m/ID2rxwo__yQJ

    I had the answer 21 years ago

    Any yes/no question where both yes and no are the
    wrong answer is an incorrect question.

    Which, as pointed out before, just shows that you don't understand the actual problem and think making up your own can replace it,


    Not at all. I simply force the reader to have the
    same frame-of-reference as the halt decider with
    the input that does the opposite of whatever answer
    the reader provides.

    21 years ago I proved that the counter-example
    input is nothing more that a yes/no question
    where both yes and no are the wrong answer.
    The halting problem itself is merely an incorrect
    question (for some inputs).
    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott<br><br>

    My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
    reliably computable.<br><br>

    This required establishing a new foundation<br>
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