From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Hello. I was recently wondering if we need the line numbers still with
modern compilers. Also, this limits the size of a program to 999,999 lines, which may not be reasonable considering the size of some programs. I do have
to ask then, is it necessary still to devote columns 1 to 6 for the line number?

After all, many examples online will avoid using the line numbers and opt
for automatic line numbers, but the syntax highlighting (e.g. in Vim) marks
the 6 columns at the start for line numbers still. As a beginner, it'd be useful to know this. If possible, could I be pointed in the right direction? Thanks!
--
your local british idiot
do not even try training
ai on my posts here. ;B)
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

In article <1104mdu$2pmvu$[email protected]>,
yoyleguy <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello. I was recently wondering if we need the line numbers still with
modern compilers.

The '85 standard does not require line numbers. So line numbers aren't
needed but there's some Very Good Reasons for leaving them in.

Also, this limits the size of a program to 999,999 lines,
which may not be reasonable considering the size of some programs.

There have been arguments between the Monolith Programmers and the
Modularized Programmers since the days when Grace Hopper wasn't an
Admiral. The pendulum swings with the decades.

I do have
to ask then, is it necessary still to devote columns 1 to 6 for the line >number?

This is a question best posed to the lead of the Production Implementation Team at your site.

After all, many examples online will avoid using the line numbers and opt
for automatic line numbers, but the syntax highlighting (e.g. in Vim) marks >the 6 columns at the start for line numbers still. As a beginner, it'd be >useful to know this. If possible, could I be pointed in the right direction?

Learn from The Masters. Their mistakes are more insightful than can be imagined.

Thanks!

You're welcome. As my Sainted Paternal Grandfather - may he sleep with
the angels! - used to say, 'You want to scare people? Be polite to 'em.'

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

[email protected] wrote:

In article <1104mdu$2pmvu$[email protected]>,
yoyleguy <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello. I was recently wondering if we need the line numbers still with
modern compilers.

The '85 standard does not require line numbers. So line numbers aren't needed but there's some Very Good Reasons for leaving them in.

Name one.

The point of line numbers was that you could sort the program back into
the proper order if someone dropped the deck of punched cards. I may
possibly have used punched cards in 1980/81 (or maybe it was someone I
was working with who had to use them) but not since then.

The compiler I was using back - and for decades afterwards - then
checked columns 1-6 of the Identification Division line. If that
contained numerics (presumably all 6 columns) then it assumed - and
checked for - line numbers on the rest of the program. I always left
those columns blank on that line and could put whatever I wanted into
the columns in the rest of the program.

Also, this limits the size of a program to 999,999 lines,
which may not be reasonable considering the size of some programs.

I've never broken 10000 lines, and probably not even 5000.

There have been arguments between the Monolith Programmers and the Modularized Programmers since the days when Grace Hopper wasn't an
Admiral. The pendulum swings with the decades.

I do have
to ask then, is it necessary still to devote columns 1 to 6 for the line
number?

This is a question best posed to the lead of the Production Implementation Team at your site.

After all, many examples online will avoid using the line numbers and opt
for automatic line numbers, but the syntax highlighting (e.g. in Vim) marks >> the 6 columns at the start for line numbers still. As a beginner, it'd be
useful to know this. If possible, could I be pointed in the right direction?

Learn from The Masters. Their mistakes are more insightful than can be imagined.

Thanks!

You're welcome. As my Sainted Paternal Grandfather - may he sleep with
the angels! - used to say, 'You want to scare people? Be polite to 'em.'

DD

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 6/8/2026 9:23 AM, R Daneel Olivaw wrote:

In article <1104mdu$2pmvu$[email protected]>,
yoyleguy  <[email protected]> wrote:

Also, this limits the size of a program to 999,999 lines,
which may not be reasonable considering the size of some programs.

I've never broken 10000 lines, and probably not even 5000.

Of course.

Cobol is *a* programming language.

Normal rules for good software development practice also
applies to Cobol.

Large programs should be split into multiple files.

C, Fortran or Cobol does not change the general
rules.

Arne



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello yoyleguy!

07 Jun 26 22:05, yoyleguy wrote to all:

Hello. I was recently wondering if we need the line numbers still with modern compilers. Also, this limits the size of a program to 999,999
lines, which may not be reasonable considering the size of some
programs. I do have to ask then, is it necessary still to devote
columns 1 to 6 for the line number?

After all, many examples online will avoid using the line numbers and
opt for automatic line numbers, but the syntax highlighting (e.g. in
Vim) marks the 6 columns at the start for line numbers still. As a
beginner, it'd be useful to know this. If possible, could I be pointed
in the right direction? Thanks!

Sorry, do you have any programs that have 900,000 lines of code?

The largest I have here and that was not created by myself is 42,000 and
that is because there is a very large amount of FD and WS file/area data
areas of 15k alone and yes that has a lot of copy books (included).
This program uses FIXED format.

My biggest is around 7k lines including all copybooks which all use FREE
format as I have no intention of using them in a M/F - (way too old Cobol standards etc).

I asked around for any Large source programs in excess of 32k so I can test
my Cobol Xref program cobxref, with the proviso that it compiles through GC with no errors. No one offered any thing larger.

Now I do go back to programming since 1963 (assembler & Cobol) using IBM
1401, 7094 and ICL 1900s plus a large selection of m/f's and other kit.

I do not recall EVER, writing any code that contains much over 10k
including copy books as I would consider it poor programming and even
worse impossible to debug and maintain for me or any one else.

Note my coding includes comments through out.
OK, my memory is not so good these days :(

But also so for others to see easily what a block of code is doing, etc.

Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

In article <1106fou$4bba$[email protected]>,
R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote: >[email protected] wrote:

In article <1104mdu$2pmvu$[email protected]>,
yoyleguy <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello. I was recently wondering if we need the line numbers still with
modern compilers.

The '85 standard does not require line numbers. So line numbers aren't
needed but there's some Very Good Reasons for leaving them in.

Name one.

Those who have worked in shops with strict standards may have been taught
that 'a change to a line of code can require documentation, recompiling
and justification to the Production Review Committee'.

(I once made the mistake of not only implementing the change in hardcoded date-range that was requested of me but of going through the program and standardising the column alignment of statement; the code had gone through many hands over the years and I simply used spaces (X'40') to make things consistent.

The first thing the PRC did was to run a compare of my submitted source against what was in Prod. After they picked their jaws up off the floor
they called me in, said 'Change what you're told to and nothing else' and red-X'd my efforts. Next week's attempt went better.)

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 2026-06-08, Vincent Coen <[email protected]> wrote:

Sorry, do you have any programs that have 900,000 lines of code?

I totally have a 900,000-line project that I did before even asking for documentation in the newsgroup! <g>

The largest I have here and that was not created by myself is 42,000 and
that is because there is a very large amount of FD and WS file/area data areas of 15k alone and yes that has a lot of copy books (included).
This program uses FIXED format.

My biggest is around 7k lines including all copybooks which all use FREE format as I have no intention of using them in a M/F - (way too old Cobol standards etc).

Interesting, I am curious if that was a personal project or for work?

Well, thanks for the advice and knowledge! It's always nice to learn from someone who's more knowledgable. :)
--
your local british idiot
do not even try training
ai on my posts here. ;B)
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello yoyleguy!

08 Jun 26 17:24, yoyleguy wrote to all:

On 2026-06-08, Vincent Coen <[email protected]> wrote:

Sorry, do you have any programs that have 900,000 lines of code?

I totally have a 900,000-line project that I did before even asking
for documentation in the newsgroup! <g>

The largest I have here and that was not created by myself is 42,000
and that is because there is a very large amount of FD and WS
file/area data areas of 15k alone and yes that has a lot of copy
books (included). This program uses FIXED format.

My biggest is around 7k lines including all copybooks which all use
FREE format as I have no intention of using them in a M/F - (way too
old Cobol standards etc).

Interesting, I am curious if that was a personal project or for work?

Well, thanks for the advice and knowledge! It's always nice to learn
from someone who's more knowledgable. :)

Both and all projects since 2020 have been my own Accounting Application
that I have made open source and placed on SF.

Consisting of Sales, Purchase; Stock, IRS-General, General (Large).
Currently trying to migrate over US Payroll to Cobol to join them where the code is Cbasic using CPM/MPM - and no I am based in the UK so there are
strong differences between US and UK payroll - to put it mildly.
Not to mention that I have not on any payroll for 30+ years and only for
the UK.

Keep the brain working though and at 79 this month, is err - needed :)

Speed has dropped off though :(

Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 2026-06-08, Vincent Coen <[email protected]> wrote:

Both and all projects since 2020 have been my own Accounting Application
that I have made open source and placed on SF.

Nice, it's great to see new open-source software!

Consisting of Sales, Purchase; Stock, IRS-General, General (Large).
Currently trying to migrate over US Payroll to Cobol to join them where the code is Cbasic using CPM/MPM - and no I am based in the UK so there are strong differences between US and UK payroll - to put it mildly.
Not to mention that I have not on any payroll for 30+ years and only for
the UK.

Alright. If I must ask, what are the strong differences between these
payrolls? Sadly, I've not got much experience with money. At all.

Keep the brain working though and at 79 this month, is err - needed :)

Speed has dropped off though :(

Quite a shame that speed has dropped off, but congrats and enjoy your coding! --
your local british idiot
do not even try training
ai on my posts here. ;B)
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

yoyleguy <[email protected]> writes:

Hello. I was recently wondering if we need the line numbers still with modern compilers.

I first learned COBOL (DOS/360 and OS/360) in 1969, well enough to be a help desk consultant at the Ohio State University College of Administrative Science as an undergraduate linguistics major from 1973-75 (OS/370), and later a full time programmer/analyst for the Financial Systems group in the UChicago Comp Center from 1979-82 (SVS).

I've also done COBOL in small amounts on DECsystem-10 and Sigma CP-5, and a refresher for COBOL 85 written for Tandem.

I've never encountered any COBOL in which the concept of "line numbers" was even mentioned.

WTAF are we talking about here?
--
Rich Alderson [email protected]
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

In article <[email protected]>,
Vincent Coen <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip

Keep the brain working though and at 79 this month, is err - needed :)

'Keeping the brain working' has been my reason for maintaining a paper subscription to The Economist for more years than I can remember.

Among many things they cover Big Money and they're never afraid of a
beautiful sentence.

Speed has dropped off though :(

My experience has shown that it's usually better to Get It Right than to
Get It First. Keep at it, Mr Coen.

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

In article <[email protected]>,
Rich Alderson <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

I've never encountered any COBOL in which the concept of "line numbers" was >even mentioned.

They may not have been mentioned, Mr Alderson, but in the IBM MVS editor
four numbering options were allowed for a dataset:

NUM (OR or OFF)
NONUM
UNNUM
NUM COB

In that it's 'built into the system' there might not have been need to
mention it; it was taken for granted the Everyone Knew what was permitted
in columns 1 - 6, 7, 8 - 12, 13-71, 72 and 73-80.

(as mentioned previously this changed with the recent '85 compiler
upgrade)

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


[responding to myself with spec reference]

In article <1107ea0$3sa$[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:

In article <[email protected]>,
Rich Alderson <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

I've never encountered any COBOL in which the concept of "line numbers" was >>even mentioned.

They may not have been mentioned, Mr Alderson, but in the IBM MVS editor >four numbering options were allowed for a dataset:

NUM (OR or OFF)
NONUM
UNNUM
NUM COB

In that it's 'built into the system' there might not have been need to >mention it; it was taken for granted the Everyone Knew what was permitted
in columns 1 - 6, 7, 8 - 12, 13-71, 72 and 73-80.

(as mentioned previously this changed with the recent '85 compiler
upgrade)

Sorry for the incomplete answer. What are here being called 'line
numbers' are, according to spec (ANSI X3.23-1974, among others) called 'Sequence numbers'. See https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/FIPS/fipspub21-1.pdf , pg I-108, Chapter 5.8.2 'Reference Format Representation.

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 2026-06-08, Rich Alderson <[email protected]> wrote:

I've never encountered any COBOL in which the concept of "line numbers" was even mentioned.

WTAF are we talking about here?

Forgive me, for I am a beginner, but whenever I read through resources for learning, they often mention the zone from column 1 to 6 devoted to line numbers.
--
your local british idiot
do not even try training
ai on my posts here. ;B)
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

[email protected] wrote:

In article <[email protected]>,
Rich Alderson <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

I've never encountered any COBOL in which the concept of "line numbers" was >> even mentioned.

They may not have been mentioned, Mr Alderson, but in the IBM MVS editor
four numbering options were allowed for a dataset:

NUM (OR or OFF)
NONUM
UNNUM
NUM COB

In that it's 'built into the system' there might not have been need to mention it; it was taken for granted the Everyone Knew what was permitted
in columns 1 - 6, 7, 8 - 12, 13-71, 72 and 73-80.

(as mentioned previously this changed with the recent '85 compiler
upgrade)

DD

1-6 was for the line numbers, if they were not being used (they became obsolete with the demise of punched cards) then the compilers I use(d)
ignored those columns.
7 - a "*" meant "comment",
a "D" meant "debug line", controlled by "source computer xxx
DEBUGGING MODE" (if that was missing the line would be ignored).
pretty much anything else meant it was the continuation of a string.
Some of this was introduced in the 1974 standard.
8 - certain constructs HAD to start in this column.
12-72 - pretty much everything else was not permitted before column 12.
73-80 - comments only, afaik

Column 8 was for Division names, section names and any other labels,
File descriptors (FD) and related, 01 levels. That's pretty much all I
can think of right now, I'd need a program in front of me.

I put "***" in columns 6-8 for comments. I started doing this after
trying to debug a program where some fool had put random garbage in
columns 1-6 and he either had a "*" in 6 which he thought was in 7, or
vice versa (he may have done both on different lines). "***" in 6-8 is totally unambiguous.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 2026-06-09, R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote:

1-6 was for the line numbers, if they were not being used (they became obsolete with the demise of punched cards) then the compilers I use(d) ignored those columns.

Alright, that makes sense then why some sources won't use line numbers.

<snip>

8 - certain constructs HAD to start in this column.

Would you mind explaining what specifically goes in this so called Zone A?
I've never really understood.

12-72 - pretty much everything else was not permitted before column 12.
73-80 - comments only, afaik

Specifically, the compiler just ignores anything in those columns if I
remember properly. Well, thanks for explaining it to me!
--
your local british idiot
do not even try training
ai on my posts here. ;B)
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

yoyleguy wrote:

On 2026-06-09, R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote:

<snip>

8 - certain constructs HAD to start in this column.

Would you mind explaining what specifically goes in this so called Zone A? I've never really understood.

I did, a separate paragraph for column 8. You snipped it.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 2026-06-09, R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote:

I did, a separate paragraph for column 8. You snipped it.

Oh, sorry... Well, it does prove the need to read and my need to learn to do so.
--
[BEWARE: POLITICAL CONTENT]

Britain is in ruins, and it is our fault. We have elected a never-ending
stream of foolish morons who have only their interests at heart for decades, and they have led us through the mess that makes up modern geopolitics. The Iraq War is one key example. The UK joined the illegal invasion in 2003 on false grounds of WMDs that were proven to not exist by the 2000s through the works of UN inspectors. The lies that built up the war have simply caused
the mountain of the innocent to grow. Whilst Saddam was truly horrific with
the Anfal campaign and the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990, the way he was ousted and jailed was a blatant violation of international war as bad as the 2026 Iran War. The crimes committed by the Americans and Britons during the Iraqi invasion laid the seeds for the spillover of the Syrian Civil War in
the mid-2010s and groups such as ISIS and al-Qaeda in Iraq, both horrific organisations that have committed international crimes. These horrors should
be punished and the perpetrators brought to justice for a country destroyed
and left to drown in its rubble.

- A student studying Saddamist Iraq.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello yoyleguy!

08 Jun 26 20:09, yoyleguy wrote to all:

On 2026-06-08, Vincent Coen <[email protected]> wrote:

Both and all projects since 2020 have been my own Accounting
Application that I have made open source and placed on SF.

Nice, it's great to see new open-source software!

Consisting of Sales, Purchase; Stock, IRS-General, General (Large).
Currently trying to migrate over US Payroll to Cobol to join them
where the code is Cbasic using CPM/MPM - and no I am based in the UK
so there are strong differences between US and UK payroll - to put
it mildly. Not to mention that I have not on any payroll for 30+
years and only for the UK.

Alright. If I must ask, what are the strong differences between these payrolls? Sadly, I've not got much experience with money. At all.

Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely the Government
tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and possibly local.

All generally based on tax tables that consist of rate and limit (for that rate) whereas UK has more complex tables but similar based plus employee
tax codes that start for the new financial year and this one is the Free
income that can be earned before and tax is liable.

Of course in the UK we also have local taxation based on district councils
of one type or another who tax properties owned or even rented for which a charge is applied for the year payable over the year based on its rateable value, for example my 4 bed terraced home the tax is around 3,500+ per year
and all we see for that is garbage being collected but they do a lot more
:)

So the old saying - you are born, pay taxes then die then pay more taxes
holds very true.


Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello Rich!

08 Jun 26 21:36, Rich Alderson wrote to all:

yoyleguy <[email protected]> writes:

Hello. I was recently wondering if we need the line numbers still
with modern compilers.

I first learned COBOL (DOS/360 and OS/360) in 1969, well enough to be
a help desk consultant at the Ohio State University College of Administrative Science as an undergraduate linguistics major from
1973-75 (OS/370), and later a full time programmer/analyst for the
Financial Systems group in the UChicago Comp Center from 1979-82
(SVS).

I've also done COBOL in small amounts on DECsystem-10 and Sigma CP-5,
and a refresher for COBOL 85 written for Tandem.

I've never encountered any COBOL in which the concept of "line
numbers" was even mentioned.

WTAF are we talking about here?

Line number or more importantly sequence numbers, as pointed out in another post, is for when punched cards was the primary input method for source
decks (yes paper tape as well - but spot the obvious difference) and for
the instance when some one dropped a box (2,000, 80 column cards max) on
the floor so collecting then all and placing then the correct way round
(they have a cut out in one corner) they can now be input into a card
sorter (columns 1 thru 6) so they will be in the correct order.

Now for many m/f vendors no real problem changing to say Free format but
for IBM where there PDS data system is based (generally) on fixed format
size of 80 bytes there is a major issue, to put it mildly but this is
fixable for allow VB (Variable format sizes) and for this to be available
to the compilers.

Why not , ask IBM (note I have not worked on IBM kit for many years despite having access to MVS, OS390 etc under Hercules but as I have not had a IBM client for some time they are very old versions.


Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

yoyleguy wrote:

On 2026-06-09, R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote:

I did, a separate paragraph for column 8. You snipped it.

Oh, sorry... Well, it does prove the need to read and my need to learn to do so.

ok, here's a program skeleton from that era. Since the first 7 columns
are irrelevant in this context, my column 1 is actually column 8 and my
column 5 is column 12.

identification division.
program-id. whatever.
author. sirius cybernetics corporation.
environment division.
configuration section.
source-computer. whatever.
object-computer. whatever.
input-output section.
file-control.
select input-phial assign disc in-phial.
select output-phial assign disc out-phial.
select sort-phial assign disc.
data division.
file section.
fd input-phial.
01 ip-record.
03 ip-char pic x occurs 80.
fd output-phial.
01 op-record.
03 op-char pic x occurs 80.
sd sort-phial.
01 sp-record.
03 sp-key pic x(6).
03 sp-rest pic x(74).
working-storage section.
01 rec-count pic 9(8) comp.
procedure division.
00-main section.
00-00.
move zero to rec-count.
sort sort-phial ascending sp-key
input procedure 10-sort-in
output procedure 20-sort-out.
if rec-count zero
display 'No records found in "in-phial"'
else
display rec-count ' records sorted into "out-phial".'.
stop run.
10-sort-in section.
10-00.
open input input-phial.
10-10-read.
read input-phial into sp-record
end close input-phial
go 10-90-exit.
release sp-record.
add 1 to rec-count.
go 10-10-read.
10-90-exit.
exit.
20-sort-out section.
20-00.
open output output-phial.
20-10-read.
return sp-record into op-record
end close output-phial
go 20-90-exit.
write op-record.
go 20-10-read.
20-90-exit.
exit.

A stupid little program to sort a cobol program on its first 6
characters, no way would I do it that way (or at all) but it indicates
the column limits necessary in the 1974 standard.
A lot of the identification and environment division content is
implementor defined - machine names, peripheral names (I used "disc").
The only inplementor defined feature I used in the data division was the "comp" which normally meant binary. Maybe pic 9(8) comp was overkill!
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 2026-06-09, Vincent Coen <[email protected]> wrote:

So the old saying - you are born, pay taxes then die then pay more taxes holds very true.

So, do you need to pay taxes on your taxes? <g>
--
[BEWARE: POLITICAL CONTENT]

Britain is in ruins, and it is our fault. We have elected a never-ending
stream of foolish morons who have only their interests at heart for decades, and they have led us through the mess that makes up modern geopolitics. The Iraq War is one key example. The UK joined the illegal invasion in 2003 on false grounds of WMDs that were proven to not exist by the 2000s through the works of UN inspectors. The lies that built up the war have simply caused
the mountain of the innocent to grow. Whilst Saddam was truly horrific with
the Anfal campaign and the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990, the way he was ousted and jailed was a blatant violation of international war as bad as the 2026 Iran War. The crimes committed by the Americans and Britons during the Iraqi invasion laid the seeds for the spillover of the Syrian Civil War in
the mid-2010s and groups such as ISIS and al-Qaeda in Iraq, both horrific organisations that have committed international crimes. These horrors should
be punished and the perpetrators brought to justice for a country destroyed
and left to drown in its rubble.

- A student studying Saddamist Iraq.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 2026-06-09 12:31 PM, R Daneel Olivaw wrote:

yoyleguy wrote:

On 2026-06-09, R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote: >>

<snip>

8 - certain constructs HAD to start in this column.

Would you mind explaining what specifically goes in this so called Zone A? >> I've never really understood.

I did, a separate paragraph for column 8. You snipped it.

Here's what I always put in Area A, and always at column 8:

compiler directives
Division names
(Some ID Division clauses also, but now they are obsolete, such as
AUTHOR and REMARKS)
Section names
Level 01 record names
Level 77 data definitions
Paragraph names.
COPY statements
EJECT and SKIP commands for adjusting print formatting (although we
stopped saving printed compile listings around Y2K).

Generally, Area A COBOL reserved words were meant to stand out when
reading the program. It was only a problem if the compiler wanted Area
A words in Area A and Area B words in Area B. That's not as strict as
it used to be.

I don't mind COBOL fixed format for punch cards (it's what I learned in
1978), and I don't mind COBOL free format (which has its advantages),
but it's a real pain mixing fixed format and free format in the same
source file. And just try writing a COBOL copybook that is safe in
either fixed or free format!

Kind regards,
--
https://www.arnoldtrembley.com/

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Rich Alderson <[email protected]> writes:

[ snip ]

I've never encountered any COBOL in which the concept of "line numbers" was even mentioned.

WTAF are we talking about here?

Doc and Vince both used the term "sequence numbers" to explain this.

I learned to use 73-80 for sequencing, because they were not used by the card oriented compilers I first learned to program with.

I later learned that the reason these were ignored was that the IBM 36 bit systems' card readers read rows of Hollerith encoded cards into 2 words per row, so that only 72 columns were significant.

Again, never saw anything referencing columns 1-6 in COBOL; 2-6 were statement "numbers" = labels in FORTRAN (II and IV, which I learned in reverse order).
--
Rich Alderson [email protected]
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello yoyleguy!

09 Jun 26 21:21, yoyleguy wrote to all:

On 2026-06-09, Vincent Coen <[email protected]> wrote:

So the old saying - you are born, pay taxes then die then pay more
taxes holds very true.

So, do you need to pay taxes on your taxes? <g>

Yes it is called inheritance tax as is due on the estate prior to being
paid out to the inheritors etc and yes for content of bank accounts, etc.,
it is indeed, a tax on tax.

This tax could well exist in most other countries - governments like to get their cut :(

I am trying to skip this as I have said to my wife to write a cheque using
my cheque book (I have a few signed) written out to me and place it in the casket.

I could have said use cash but that would assume that those above accept
pounds sterling :)


Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Am 09.06.2026 um 19:49 schrieb Vincent Coen:

[...]

Line number or more importantly sequence numbers, as pointed out in another post, is for when punched cards was the primary input method for source
decks (yes paper tape as well - but spot the obvious difference) and for
the instance when some one dropped a box (2,000, 80 column cards max) on
the floor so collecting then all and placing then the correct way round
(they have a cut out in one corner) they can now be input into a card
sorter (columns 1 thru 6) so they will be in the correct order.

Now for many m/f vendors no real problem changing to say Free format but [...]

In my time when I was programming COBOL (in the seventies) there was
another trick to tackle the disaster of a dropped box: To draw a thick diagonal line on top of all cards in the box. So more or less you would
have been able to put the (unnumbered) dropped cards into proper sequence.
--
Beste Grüße,
Best regards,
Albert Richheimer
_______________________________________________
Mail an die From-Adresse wird nicht gelesen.
Mail sent to the from-address is not monitored.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello Albert!

10 Jun 26 20:03, Albert Richheimer wrote to all:
What is this double dutch or some else stupid etc.?

QW0gMDkuMDYuMjAyNiB1bSAxOTo0OSBzY2hyaWViIFZpbmNlbnQgQ29lbjoNCj4gWy4uLl
0N Cj4gDQo+IExpbmUgbnVtYmVyIG9yIG1vcmUgaW1wb3J0YW50bHkgc2VxdWVuY2UgbnV
tYmVy cywgYXMgcG9pbnRlZCBvdXQgaW4gYW5vdGhlcg0KPiBwb3N0LCBpcyBmb3Igd2hl biBwdW5j aGVkIGNhcmRzIHdhcyB0aGUgcHJpbWFyeSBpbnB1dCBtZXRob2QgZm9yIHNvd XJjZQ0KPiBk ZWNrcyAoeWVzIHBhcGVyIHRhcGUgYXMgd2VsbCAtIGJ1dCBzcG90IHRoZS BvYnZpb3VzIGRp ZmZlcmVuY2UpIGFuZCBmb3INCj4gdGhlIGluc3RhbmNlIHdoZW4gc29 tZSBvbmUgZHJvcHBl ZCBhIGJveCAoMiwwMDAsIDgwIGNvbHVtbiBjYXJkcyBtYXgpIG9u DQo+IHRoZSBmbG9vciBz byBjb2xsZWN0aW5nIHRoZW4gYWxsIGFuZCBwbGFjaW5nIHRoZ W4gdGhlIGNvcnJlY3Qgd2F5 IHJvdW5kDQo+ICh0aGV5IGhhdmUgYSBjdXQgb3V0IGluIG 9uZSBjb3JuZXIpIHRoZXkgY2Fu IG5vdyBiZSBpbnB1dCBpbnRvIGEgY2FyZA0KPiBzb3J 0ZXIgKGNvbHVtbnMgMSB0aHJ1IDYp IHNvIHRoZXkgd2lsbCBiZSBpbiB0aGUgY29ycmVj dCBvcmRlci4NCj4gDQo+IE5vdyBmb3Ig bWFueSBtL2YgdmVuZG9ycyBubyByZWFsIHByb 2JsZW0gY2hhbmdpbmcgdG8gc2F5IEZyZWUg Zm9ybWF0IGJ1dA0KPiBbLi4uXQ0KSW4gbX kgdGltZSB3aGVuIEkgd2FzIHByb2dyYW1taW5n IENPQk9MIChpbiB0aGUgc2V2ZW50aWV zKSB0aGVyZSB3YXMgDQphbm90aGVyIHRyaWNrIHRv IHRhY2tsZSB0aGUgZGlzYXN0ZXIg b2YgYSBkcm9wcGVkIGJveDogVG8gZHJhdyBhIHRoaWNr IA0KZGlhZ29uYWwgbGluZSBvb iB0b3Agb2YgYWxsIGNhcmRzIGluIHRoZSBib3guIFNvIG1v cmUgb3IgbGVzcyB5b3Ugd2 91bGQgDQpoYXZlIGJlZW4gYWJsZSB0byBwdXQgdGhlICh1bm51 bWJlcmVkKSBkcm9wcGV kIGNhcmRzIGludG8gcHJvcGVyIHNlcXVlbmNlLg0KDQotLSANCkJl c3RlIEdyw7zDn2Us DQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpBbGJlcnQgUmljaGhlaW1lcg0KX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX 19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk1haWwgYW4gZGll IEZyb20tQW RyZXNzZSB3aXJkIG5pY2h0IGdlbGVzZW4uDQpNYWlsIHNlbnQgdG8gdGhlIGZy b20tYWR kcmVzcyBpcyBub3QgbW9uaXRvcmVkLg0K

Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely the
Government
tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and possibly local.

Correct regarding the USA. In some places, you could be subject to
more
than one layer of local tax, i.e. city and county.


* SLMR 2.1a * Energize! said Picard....and this pink bunny appeared...
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Am 11.06.2026 um 02:08 schrieb Vincent Coen:

Hello Albert!

10 Jun 26 20:03, Albert Richheimer wrote to all:
What is this double dutch or some else stupid etc.?

> QW0gMDkuMDYuMjAyNiB1bSAxOTo0OSBzY2hyaWViIFZpbmNlbnQgQ29lbjoNCj4gWy4uLl
> 0N Cj4gDQo+IExpbmUgbnVtYmVyIG9yIG1vcmUgaW1wb3J0YW50bHkgc2VxdWVuY2UgbnV
> tYmVy cywgYXMgcG9pbnRlZCBvdXQgaW4gYW5vdGhlcg0KPiBwb3N0LCBpcyBmb3Igd2hl
> biBwdW5j aGVkIGNhcmRzIHdhcyB0aGUgcHJpbWFyeSBpbnB1dCBtZXRob2QgZm9yIHNvd
> XJjZQ0KPiBk ZWNrcyAoeWVzIHBhcGVyIHRhcGUgYXMgd2VsbCAtIGJ1dCBzcG90IHRoZS
> BvYnZpb3VzIGRp ZmZlcmVuY2UpIGFuZCBmb3INCj4gdGhlIGluc3RhbmNlIHdoZW4gc29
> tZSBvbmUgZHJvcHBl ZCBhIGJveCAoMiwwMDAsIDgwIGNvbHVtbiBjYXJkcyBtYXgpIG9u
> DQo+IHRoZSBmbG9vciBz byBjb2xsZWN0aW5nIHRoZW4gYWxsIGFuZCBwbGFjaW5nIHRoZ
> W4gdGhlIGNvcnJlY3Qgd2F5 IHJvdW5kDQo+ICh0aGV5IGhhdmUgYSBjdXQgb3V0IGluIG
> 9uZSBjb3JuZXIpIHRoZXkgY2Fu IG5vdyBiZSBpbnB1dCBpbnRvIGEgY2FyZA0KPiBzb3J
> 0ZXIgKGNvbHVtbnMgMSB0aHJ1IDYp IHNvIHRoZXkgd2lsbCBiZSBpbiB0aGUgY29ycmVj
> dCBvcmRlci4NCj4gDQo+IE5vdyBmb3Ig bWFueSBtL2YgdmVuZG9ycyBubyByZWFsIHByb
> 2JsZW0gY2hhbmdpbmcgdG8gc2F5IEZyZWUg Zm9ybWF0IGJ1dA0KPiBbLi4uXQ0KSW4gbX
> kgdGltZSB3aGVuIEkgd2FzIHByb2dyYW1taW5n IENPQk9MIChpbiB0aGUgc2V2ZW50aWV
> zKSB0aGVyZSB3YXMgDQphbm90aGVyIHRyaWNrIHRv IHRhY2tsZSB0aGUgZGlzYXN0ZXIg
> b2YgYSBkcm9wcGVkIGJveDogVG8gZHJhdyBhIHRoaWNr IA0KZGlhZ29uYWwgbGluZSBvb
> iB0b3Agb2YgYWxsIGNhcmRzIGluIHRoZSBib3guIFNvIG1v cmUgb3IgbGVzcyB5b3Ugd2
> 91bGQgDQpoYXZlIGJlZW4gYWJsZSB0byBwdXQgdGhlICh1bm51 bWJlcmVkKSBkcm9wcGV
> kIGNhcmRzIGludG8gcHJvcGVyIHNlcXVlbmNlLg0KDQotLSANCkJl c3RlIEdyw7zDn2Us
> DQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpBbGJlcnQgUmljaGhlaW1lcg0KX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX
> 19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk1haWwgYW4gZGll IEZyb20tQW
> RyZXNzZSB3aXJkIG5pY2h0IGdlbGVzZW4uDQpNYWlsIHNlbnQgdG8gdGhlIGZy b20tYWR
> kcmVzcyBpcyBub3QgbW9uaXRvcmVkLg0K

Vincent

Strange. Might be an encoding issue. This was my original posting:

In my time when I was programming COBOL (in the seventies) there was
another trick to tackle the disaster of a dropped box: To draw a thick diagonal line on top of all cards in the box. So more or less you would
have been able to put the (unnumbered) dropped cards into proper sequence.
--
Beste Grüße,
Best regards,
Albert Richheimer
_______________________________________________
Mail an die From-Adresse wird nicht gelesen.
Mail sent to the from-address is not monitored.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Vincent Coen wrote:

Hello Albert!

10 Jun 26 20:03, Albert Richheimer wrote to all:
What is this double dutch or some else stupid etc.?

> QW0gMDkuMDYuMjAyNiB1bSAxOTo0OSBzY2hyaWViIFZpbmNlbnQgQ29lbjoNCj4gWy4uLl
> 0N Cj4gDQo+IExpbmUgbnVtYmVyIG9yIG1vcmUgaW1wb3J0YW50bHkgc2VxdWVuY2UgbnV
> tYmVy cywgYXMgcG9pbnRlZCBvdXQgaW4gYW5vdGhlcg0KPiBwb3N0LCBpcyBmb3Igd2hl
> biBwdW5j aGVkIGNhcmRzIHdhcyB0aGUgcHJpbWFyeSBpbnB1dCBtZXRob2QgZm9yIHNvd
> XJjZQ0KPiBk ZWNrcyAoeWVzIHBhcGVyIHRhcGUgYXMgd2VsbCAtIGJ1dCBzcG90IHRoZS
> BvYnZpb3VzIGRp ZmZlcmVuY2UpIGFuZCBmb3INCj4gdGhlIGluc3RhbmNlIHdoZW4gc29
> tZSBvbmUgZHJvcHBl ZCBhIGJveCAoMiwwMDAsIDgwIGNvbHVtbiBjYXJkcyBtYXgpIG9u
> DQo+IHRoZSBmbG9vciBz byBjb2xsZWN0aW5nIHRoZW4gYWxsIGFuZCBwbGFjaW5nIHRoZ
> W4gdGhlIGNvcnJlY3Qgd2F5 IHJvdW5kDQo+ICh0aGV5IGhhdmUgYSBjdXQgb3V0IGluIG
> 9uZSBjb3JuZXIpIHRoZXkgY2Fu IG5vdyBiZSBpbnB1dCBpbnRvIGEgY2FyZA0KPiBzb3J
> 0ZXIgKGNvbHVtbnMgMSB0aHJ1IDYp IHNvIHRoZXkgd2lsbCBiZSBpbiB0aGUgY29ycmVj
> dCBvcmRlci4NCj4gDQo+IE5vdyBmb3Ig bWFueSBtL2YgdmVuZG9ycyBubyByZWFsIHByb
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> kgdGltZSB3aGVuIEkgd2FzIHByb2dyYW1taW5n IENPQk9MIChpbiB0aGUgc2V2ZW50aWV
> zKSB0aGVyZSB3YXMgDQphbm90aGVyIHRyaWNrIHRv IHRhY2tsZSB0aGUgZGlzYXN0ZXIg
> b2YgYSBkcm9wcGVkIGJveDogVG8gZHJhdyBhIHRoaWNr IA0KZGlhZ29uYWwgbGluZSBvb
> iB0b3Agb2YgYWxsIGNhcmRzIGluIHRoZSBib3guIFNvIG1v cmUgb3IgbGVzcyB5b3Ugd2
> 91bGQgDQpoYXZlIGJlZW4gYWJsZSB0byBwdXQgdGhlICh1bm51 bWJlcmVkKSBkcm9wcGV
> kIGNhcmRzIGludG8gcHJvcGVyIHNlcXVlbmNlLg0KDQotLSANCkJl c3RlIEdyw7zDn2Us
> DQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpBbGJlcnQgUmljaGhlaW1lcg0KX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX
> 19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk1haWwgYW4gZGll IEZyb20tQW
> RyZXNzZSB3aXJkIG5pY2h0IGdlbGVzZW4uDQpNYWlsIHNlbnQgdG8gdGhlIGZy b20tYWR
> kcmVzcyBpcyBub3QgbW9uaXRvcmVkLg0K

Vincent

There's the diagonal line, you just need to make sure the cards stay in
that order.
I don't think I've ever seen GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5 as a client before,
although it's not as though I go looking for it.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello Dumas!

10 Jun 26 10:29, Dumas Walker wrote to me:

Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely the
Government
tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and possibly local.

Correct regarding the USA. In some places, you could be subject to
more
than one layer of local tax, i.e. city and county.

I have not yet starting working on the pay apply programs yet but I have
one outstanding possible issue - If the business is in one state and the employee lives in another what state taxation is used (ditto local tax) ?



Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Vincent Coen wrote:

Hello Dumas!

10 Jun 26 10:29, Dumas Walker wrote to me:

>> Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely the
>> Government
>> tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and possibly local.

> Correct regarding the USA. In some places, you could be subject to
> more
> than one layer of local tax, i.e. city and county.

I have not yet starting working on the pay apply programs yet but I have
one outstanding possible issue - If the business is in one state and the employee lives in another what state taxation is used (ditto local tax) ?

Vincent

That is way outside the scope of this thread, and also outside the scope
of this forum.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

In article <110ejg7$15c13$[email protected]>,
R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote:

Vincent Coen wrote:

Hello Dumas!

10 Jun 26 10:29, Dumas Walker wrote to me:

>> Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely the
>> Government
>> tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and possibly local.

> Correct regarding the USA. In some places, you could be subject to
> more
> than one layer of local tax, i.e. city and county.


I have not yet starting working on the pay apply programs yet but I have
one outstanding possible issue - If the business is in one state and the
employee lives in another what state taxation is used (ditto local tax) ?

That is way outside the scope of this thread, and also outside the scope
of this forum.

Oh boy! That's where it really gets interesting, keep at it!

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello R!

11 Jun 26 16:16, R Daneel Olivaw wrote to all:

Vincent Coen wrote:

Hello Dumas!

10 Jun 26 10:29, Dumas Walker wrote to me:

>> Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely the
>> Government
>> tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and possibly
local.

> Correct regarding the USA. In some places, you could be subject
to
> more
> than one layer of local tax, i.e. city and county.


I have not yet starting working on the pay apply programs yet but I
have one outstanding possible issue - If the business is in one
state and the employee lives in another what state taxation is used
(ditto local tax) ?



Vincent

That is way outside the scope of this thread, and also outside the
scope of this forum.

Not really - the application is being written in Cobol.


Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 2026-06-10, Vincent Coen <[email protected]> wrote:

Yes it is called inheritance tax as is due on the estate prior to being
paid out to the inheritors etc and yes for content of bank accounts, etc.,
it is indeed, a tax on tax.

This tax could well exist in most other countries - governments like to get their cut :(

Honestly, that is pretty ridiculous. Quite literally just taxing the dead.

I am trying to skip this as I have said to my wife to write a cheque using
my cheque book (I have a few signed) written out to me and place it in the casket.

I could have said use cash but that would assume that those above accept pounds sterling :)

They only take UsenetCoins, which means nobody can use cash up there because
I just made that all up. :)
--
very british
slrn | idiot
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Vincent Coen wrote:

Hello R!

11 Jun 26 16:16, R Daneel Olivaw wrote to all:

> Vincent Coen wrote:
>>
>> Hello Dumas!
>>
>> 10 Jun 26 10:29, Dumas Walker wrote to me:
>>
>> >> Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely the
>> >> Government
>> >> tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and possibly
>> local.
>>
>> > Correct regarding the USA. In some places, you could be subject
>> to
>> > more
>> > than one layer of local tax, i.e. city and county.
>>
>>
>> I have not yet starting working on the pay apply programs yet but I
>> have one outstanding possible issue - If the business is in one
>> state and the employee lives in another what state taxation is used
>> (ditto local tax) ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Vincent
>>
>>
>>

> That is way outside the scope of this thread, and also outside the
> scope of this forum.

Not really - the application is being written in Cobol.

Vincent

The thread was about sequence numbers in columns 1-6 (subsequently about
which columns have which significance), the application is about US tax
laws and which language it is written in is irrelevant at this stage.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

In article <110hii5$1gi4p$[email protected]>,
R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote:

[snip]

The thread was about sequence numbers in columns 1-6 (subsequently about >which columns have which significance), the application is about US tax
laws and which language it is written in is irrelevant at this stage.

Mr Olivaw, the best course of action a well-meaning newsgroup participant might take in order to effect a conclusion beneficial for all would be to notify the moderator.

Anything else is just wind... like a UseNet thread going adrift.

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello R!

12 Jun 26 19:18, R Daneel Olivaw wrote to all:

Vincent Coen wrote:

Hello R!

11 Jun 26 16:16, R Daneel Olivaw wrote to all:

> Vincent Coen wrote:
>>
>> Hello Dumas!
>>
>> 10 Jun 26 10:29, Dumas Walker wrote to me:
>>
>> >> Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely
the
>> >> Government
>> >> tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and
possibly
>> local.
>>
>> > Correct regarding the USA. In some places, you could be
subject
>> to
>> > more
>> > than one layer of local tax, i.e. city and county.
>>
>>
>> I have not yet starting working on the pay apply programs yet
but I
>> have one outstanding possible issue - If the business is in one
>> state and the employee lives in another what state taxation is
used
>> (ditto local tax) ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Vincent
>>
>>
>>

> That is way outside the scope of this thread, and also outside
the
> scope of this forum.

Not really - the application is being written in Cobol.


Vincent

The thread was about sequence numbers in columns 1-6 (subsequently
about which columns have which significance), the application is about
US tax laws and which language it is written in is irrelevant at this
stage.

No it is not, there again I have only been programming in Cobol since 1963.

Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

10 Jun 26 10:29, Dumas Walker wrote to me:

Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely the
Government
tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and possibly

local.

Correct regarding the USA. In some places, you could be subject

to

more
than one layer of local tax, i.e. city and county.

I have not yet starting working on the pay apply programs yet but I
have
one outstanding possible issue - If the business is in one state and
the
employee lives in another what state taxation is used (ditto local
tax) ?

I think it may depend on the state and some other factors. Short
answer is
that it is complicated. In Kentucky, for example, one thing that
complicates matters is whether or not you live in an adjacent state
that had a
reciporical income tax agreement with Kentucky's Department of Revenue.
This
would change how much you owed us vs. your home state. On the other
hand,
living in a reciporical state your tax filing much simpler than if you
lived in another state.

Additional complications come in when you lived in Kentucky part of the
time and another state another part of the year. How much you owe
Kentucky would then be based on a percentage you have to calculate.

I left Revenue three years ago, and have always lived in the state I
worked
in, so precise details have escaped me.

Local tax, in Kentucky anyway, is always due to the locality you worked
in. When I lived in an adjacent county, my local income taxes came out
of
my paycheck and went to the county I worked in. My home county got
nothing.

Similarly, when I worked in a municipality within the same county I
lived in,
but I didn't live in that municipality, local city income taxes were
deducted for the city I was working in even though I lived outside that
city.
That would be in addition to the county taxes that were taken.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * How do they get the deer to cross at the signs?
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On Mon, 08 Jun 2026 15:31:14 +0100, "Vincent Coen" <[email protected]> wrote:

Sorry, do you have any programs that have 900,000 lines of code?

Vincent

Luckily not, however in the 80's I worked with some accounting system (purchased software) which had "modules" way past 100K lines.
Forgot the name, long time ago and who'd want to remember something like that ;) Working on that system required an extra large TSO
settings or you could not load those modules... Only ever seen something like that at a certain Huntsville based tech company (no
longer in existence).
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

When I started out Cobol was coded on coding sheets (25-30 lines a page ???). These would go to data entry & we'd get a box of
punched cards back. Sequence numbers WERE important because they would help you find/fix/replace the cards with errors. We'd have
to punch those out on a rinky-dink punchcard maker & fix the full deck after which operations would read the fixed deck back in, run
a compile, get you the listing & the circus would start over again. Yes, sequence numbers had a purpose.

Back then we had 2 terminals for 25 IT personnel, The juniors did not get to use those very easily ;)

On Tue, 09 Jun 2026 18:49:25 +0100, "Vincent Coen" <[email protected]> wrote: >Line number or more importantly sequence numbers, as pointed out in another >post, is for when punched cards was the primary input method for source

decks (yes paper tape as well - but spot the obvious difference) and for
the instance when some one dropped a box (2,000, 80 column cards max) on
the floor so collecting then all and placing then the correct way round
(they have a cut out in one corner) they can now be input into a card
sorter (columns 1 thru 6) so they will be in the correct order.

Now for many m/f vendors no real problem changing to say Free format but
for IBM where there PDS data system is based (generally) on fixed format
size of 80 bytes there is a major issue, to put it mildly but this is
fixable for allow VB (Variable format sizes) and for this to be available
to the compilers.

Why not , ask IBM (note I have not worked on IBM kit for many years despite >having access to MVS, OS390 etc under Hercules but as I have not had a IBM >client for some time they are very old versions.

Vincent

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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Joe wrote:

On Mon, 08 Jun 2026 15:31:14 +0100, "Vincent Coen" <[email protected]> wrote:

Sorry, do you have any programs that have 900,000 lines of code?


Vincent

Luckily not, however in the 80's I worked with some accounting system (purchased software) which had "modules" way past 100K lines.
Forgot the name, long time ago and who'd want to remember something like that ;) Working on that system required an extra large TSO
settings or you could not load those modules... Only ever seen something like that at a certain Huntsville based tech company (no
longer in existence).

I was working on a conversion project just over 40 years ago, it was
just one flavour of Cobol to another (different hardware, different OS).
One genius took a main program and - say - 10 large subroutines and
decided to make one gigantic program of them all, they also had COPY statements for the data descriptions.
He reached the decision to do this, and then spent roughly 36 hours
non-stop doing the editing and trying to get it working. The compiler
created its own workfiles and they turned out to be inadequate, the only
way forwards (if there was one) would have been segmenting the program
because it broke address-limit restrictions. Then he left the project
(hence the 36-hour panic) and it was dumped in my lap.

I ended up saving his work to tape (just in case) and reloading the
state of things before he started this insanity. I learned a lot about linking large program complexes together from that, but the manual told
me how and it only took a few days to get everything working cleanly.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 2026-06-13 9:43 AM, Joe wrote:

When I started out Cobol was coded on coding sheets (25-30 lines a page ???). These would go to data entry & we'd get a box of
punched cards back. Sequence numbers WERE important because they would help you find/fix/replace the cards with errors. We'd have
to punch those out on a rinky-dink punchcard maker & fix the full deck after which operations would read the fixed deck back in, run
a compile, get you the listing & the circus would start over again. Yes, sequence numbers had a purpose.

Back then we had 2 terminals for 25 IT personnel, The juniors did not get to use those very easily ;)

In November of 1979 I worked at shop that built a new data
center/programming center. They had five IBM 3270 terminals for 30 programmers. The director of programming ordered that all programmers continue to write new programs on coding sheets and send them to
"keypunch" for data entry, because it was a waster of our valuable time
to type programs directly into Panvalet on the mainframe.

Luckily, I was assigned to a small group of programmers working on an
IBM Series/1 mini-computer, which was located in the raised floor
computer room. The director of programming had no reason to visit the computer room, so we could type into our Series/1 terminals. It would
have been too much to write coding sheets, send the to the keypunch
gals, and then transmit the source code to the Series/1. Eventually,
they did set up a "modem eliminator" data connection to the S/1, but we already had our own established practice. Good times.
--
https://www.arnoldtrembley.com/

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

In article <110k47u$1r797$[email protected]>,
R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote:

[snip]

One genius took a main program and - say - 10 large subroutines and
decided to make one gigantic program of them all, they also had COPY >statements for the data descriptions.

Sounds like some genius didn't have a manager who said 'with the exception
of certain accounting subroutines and subsidiary file-format translation programs there will be no code in this shop a two-year programmer can't
fix'.

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

In article <[email protected]>,
Arnold Trembley <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

In November of 1979 I worked at shop that built a new data >center/programming center.

In about two-and-a-half years November of 1979 will be a half-century
back.

[snip]

Luckily, I was assigned to a small group of programmers working on an
IBM Series/1 mini-computer, which was located in the raised floor
computer room.

I worked around one of those, once, and I say 'around' because while it
was at the state-of-the-art heart of a snacks and beverages distribution system nobody really knew how it worked, what capabilities it had... it
was new, it had a niche and if anything went wrong an IPL wouldn't cure
they sent it back to depot.

Essentially, truck drivers would deliver stuff and make notes about stuff (what sold, what didn't) on custom-made Z80 hand-held devices. These Z80s would get brought back to the warehouse, put into cradles, data for sales downloaded and consolidated at the Series/1 and then uploaded to the MVS, where data'd get processed, so-and-so looks like an upcoming,
this-and-that are sitting on the shelf... and then the MVS would load the
next day's best-guesses back down the chain and the business of excessively-salted carbohydrates would keep moving.

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 03:58:58 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] () wrote:

In article <110k47u$1r797$[email protected]>,
R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote:

[snip]

One genius took a main program and - say - 10 large subroutines and >>decided to make one gigantic program of them all, they also had COPY >>statements for the data descriptions.

Sounds like some genius didn't have a manager who said 'with the exception >of certain accounting subroutines and subsidiary file-format translation >programs there will be no code in this shop a two-year programmer can't >fix'.

DD

Sounds like you were expecting a manager with knowledge?
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

In article <[email protected]>,
Joe <[email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 03:58:58 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] () wrote:

In article <110k47u$1r797$[email protected]>,
R Daneel Olivaw <[email protected]d> wrote:

[snip]

One genius took a main program and - say - 10 large subroutines and >>>decided to make one gigantic program of them all, they also had COPY >>>statements for the data descriptions.

Sounds like some genius didn't have a manager who said 'with the exception >>of certain accounting subroutines and subsidiary file-format translation >>programs there will be no code in this shop a two-year programmer can't >>fix'.

Sounds like you were expecting a manager with knowledge?

Quite the reverse! 'I'm the manager here and if I don't understand the
code then it doesn't make it to Prod.'

(I once had a manager who coded a text-recognition program in COBOL that
would flag any use of reserved words associated with SORT, SEARCH and MOVE CORRESPONDING - because 'nobody can use those right' (somethimes
translated into 'I don't understand them' - and put that program into the
Test and Prod compile streams. The program would flag the new coder (it
was always a new coder) and the new coder would get called into an office
for A Lecture about how "we don't do that around here".

DD
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol


Hello Dumas!

12 Jun 26 14:09, Dumas Walker wrote to me:

10 Jun 26 10:29, Dumas Walker wrote to me:

Totally differing tax systems e.g., UK has only one namely the
Government
tax base whereas USA has Federal US Gov., State and possibly

local.

Correct regarding the USA. In some places, you could be subject

to

more
than one layer of local tax, i.e. city and county.

I have not yet starting working on the pay apply programs yet but I
have
one outstanding possible issue - If the business is in one state and
the employee lives in another what state taxation is used (ditto
local tax) ?

I think it may depend on the state and some other factors. Short
answer is
that it is complicated. In Kentucky, for example, one thing that complicates matters is whether or not you live in an adjacent state
that had a
reciporical income tax agreement with Kentucky's Department of
Revenue. This would change how much you owed us vs. your home state.
On the other hand, living in a reciporical state your tax filing much simpler than if you lived in another state.

Additional complications come in when you lived in Kentucky part of
the time and another state another part of the year. How much you owe Kentucky would then be based on a percentage you have to calculate.

I left Revenue three years ago, and have always lived in the state I
worked
in, so precise details have escaped me.

Local tax, in Kentucky anyway, is always due to the locality you
worked in. When I lived in an adjacent county, my local income taxes
came out of my paycheck and went to the county I worked in. My home
county got nothing.

Similarly, when I worked in a municipality within the same county I
lived in,
but I didn't live in that municipality, local city income taxes were deducted for the city I was working in even though I lived outside
that city. That would be in addition to the county taxes that were
taken.

Thanks for that info, So solution is simply to support company based and employee based state (and local) taxes. It could be that the original pay apply code (written in Cbasic) does that) just needed confirmation.

Thanks again,


Vincent



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

<[email protected]> <[email protected]>

Hello Joe!

13 Jun 26 15:43, Joe wrote to all:

When I started out Cobol was coded on coding sheets (25-30 lines a
page ???). These would go to data entry & we'd get a box of
punched cards back. Sequence numbers WERE important because they
would help you find/fix/replace the cards with errors. We'd have to
punch those out on a rinky-dink punchcard maker & fix the full deck
after which operations would read the fixed deck back in, run a
compile, get you the listing & the circus would start over again.
Yes, sequence numbers had a purpose.

Back then we had 2 terminals for 25 IT personnel, The juniors did not
get to use those very easily ;)

On Tue, 09 Jun 2026 18:49:25 +0100, "Vincent Coen" <[email protected]>
wrote:

Line number or more importantly sequence numbers, as pointed out in
another post, is for when punched cards was the primary input method
for source decks (yes paper tape as well - but spot the obvious
difference) and for the instance when some one dropped a box (2,000,
80 column cards max) on the floor so collecting then all and placing
then the correct way round (they have a cut out in one corner) they
can now be input into a card sorter (columns 1 thru 6) so they will
be in the correct order.

Now for many m/f vendors no real problem changing to say Free format
but for IBM where there PDS data system is based (generally) on fixed
format size of 80 bytes there is a major issue, to put it mildly but
this is fixable for allow VB (Variable format sizes) and for this to
be available to the compilers.

Why not , ask IBM (note I have not worked on IBM kit for many years
despite having access to MVS, OS390 etc under Hercules but as I have
not had a IBM client for some time they are very old versions.

Yes, I remember the use of Cobol coding sheets, ditto for Print layout
forms (now sadly not available).

Like you and for almost all that had that system they went to the key punch team and we got back a box or more/less of cards that with a job sheet was
sent to the computer room for processing then we ending up with a listing
that had errors on and if only a few we would punch own own corrections on using a real IBM 029 punch or a hand punch for just a small number of
cards. The benefit of using the 029 punch was the text was printed at the
top of the card - not so for the hand punch :(
You then replaced the wrong cards with the corrections then the whole cycle started again and this was often a two day turn around although mostly on
the old kit say IBM 1401,7074 & 360/370.

Production improved dramatically once programmers could key a source
program directly in via a terminal or RJE type kit.

I find it a lot quicker now using a micro running a complier and doing the
same directly and once working sending the source to a mainframe before
running a quick compile to confirm all is well with the world.

I did have a try and taking the source code directly in to a micro but that creates even more issues when it does not get the correct words - only
tried that the once.

Back to layout forms - The printer layouts would be useful when
setting out some of my accounting systems specifically the one's that use pre-printed forms such as tax returns of one type or another and ditto for
pay slips et al - I will be using plain paper and adding in headings as
needed. I am trying to make it as easy as possible for users to change the
set ups for reporting by using RW but there are some functions that are
missing in GnuCobol RW sub system so some elements have to be done the old
way :).

Needless to say the original code uses a line printer or matrix with
continuous stationery so has to be changed for the more modern types such
as inkjet, inktank and laser printer. Needless to say I did look for one
via ebay and could not believe the silly prices for very basic ones.
Should have kept my 2 heavy duty ones with stands but my study was getting short of space :(

Vincent



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