On 9/12/2025 7:32 AM, MikeS wrote:
I asked you yesterday to explain what "complete reimagining" entailsAfter years dishing Windows you bought a new toy with Windows pre-
installed, used it and realised that actually Windows is a pretty
good OS. You can't bear to admit to being wrong so decided that
Windows 11 24H2 must be a massive change. It isn't. As usual this
new version is the same old OS with another gadget or two tacked on.
Factually incorrect. 24H2 is a genuinely new version, they just
didn't change the name and appearance. They did the same thing with
Windows 10, when they used customers as the beta testers starting
with 1809, which is when I switched to Linux for a long time for the
first time, in 2019. By 20H2, they'd come up with what was truly
Win10, not Win9 being called Win10.
and you ignored the question. If "24H2 is a genuinely new version"
tell us what changes since 23H2 justify your claim.
The computer I destroyed was more powerful, than this one. But I think Win11 24H2 runs smoother on it, now, than 23H2 did when I last had it on
the previous one.
On 12/09/2025 6:52 pm, CtrlAltDel wrote:
On 12 Sep 2025 08:26:26 GMT, vallor wrote:Sorry! What?? I don't know that I've ever used Mint, I usually have MageiaLinux set up in a Dual Boot situation with whatever version of
I just upgraded my Mint to 22.2, do you think Clem will come after me,
too?
BTW, had absolutely no problems with the upgrade using the standard
software tool. (YMMV)
No, you and most everyone else is good. It's just the serial updaters
like Joel with which Mint developers have an issue.
Joel will tell you himself that they know him, personally, and don't
like the way he updates at the drop of hat and punished him by freezing
his ability to update when he didn't really need to.
He can still use Mint but, they aren't going to let him progress past
Mint 21.3 for a good while, to teach him a lesson.
Windows I have installed.
Why don't the Devs of Mint want 'Joel' to update to whatever the newest Version of Mint may be as soon as possible?? Isn't that part of the
reason the Devs continue improving their system .... so people can
use/test it??
Or is 'Joel' one of those users who ONLY uses a system so they can find Problems/Bugs/etc do demonstrate how "Pathetic" the new system is??
On 9/10/2025 8:13 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
They were literally intending to call it Windows 12. But we're talking about a complete reimagining of how it does things in the background, something big is happeninggot any links to where you see that?
with this product. I'm rather taken by it.
On Fri, 9/12/2025 6:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 12/09/2025 6:52 pm, CtrlAltDel wrote:
On 12 Sep 2025 08:26:26 GMT, vallor wrote:Sorry! What?? I don't know that I've ever used Mint, I usually have MageiaLinux set up in a Dual Boot situation with whatever version of Windows I have installed.
I just upgraded my Mint to 22.2, do you think Clem will come after me, >>>> too?
BTW, had absolutely no problems with the upgrade using the standard
software tool. (YMMV)
No, you and most everyone else is good. It's just the serial updaters
like Joel with which Mint developers have an issue.
Joel will tell you himself that they know him, personally, and don't like >>> the way he updates at the drop of hat and punished him by freezing his
ability to update when he didn't really need to.
He can still use Mint but, they aren't going to let him progress past Mint >>> 21.3 for a good while, to teach him a lesson.
Why don't the Devs of Mint want 'Joel' to update to whatever the newest Version of Mint may be as soon as possible?? Isn't that part of the reason the Devs continue improving their system .... so people can use/test it??
Or is 'Joel' one of those users who ONLY uses a system so they can find Problems/Bugs/etc do demonstrate how "Pathetic" the new system is??
Joels new $250 mini-PC is his daily driver now. Previous
nice system has gone to hardware heaven.
21.3 uses the 5.15 kernel, 22.1 uses a 6.x kernel, 22.2 uses a 6.14 kernel (apparently HWE).
Depending on the vintage of PC, those three operating points are
hardware dependent, with the Linux Mint 21.3 running on your "survivor" PCs. The 21.3 for example, doesn't have the latest RealTek NIC driver onboard
(so your ASIX USB3 to Eth can be used instead). But the 21.3 would be
a good match for some >10yr old PCs.
The vintage of PC that could run 21.3, it should have sufficient
memory for it. Some machines might run it, but not with sufficient
RAM to make it practical.
My Tualatin 1.4 is about the oldest processor that comes close,
and the machine TUV4X can hold 1.5GB of memory, and the last time
I tried something like that, it bombed out on not enough RAM. A couple
of my mid-range motherboards died, and then the newer stuff is
only eleven years old and not much of a test. For really old kit, you
install on a "capable" PC, then move the Linux drive over to the
ancient PC and give it a go.
The oldest PC still runs, but the board doesn't know what a DVD drive
is, so it can't boot off a DVD (can boot from CD), and it has slightly
less than 768MB of RAM (some sort of Intel bug). I had enough RAM
sticks (4x256MB) to hit 1GB, but then the PC won't start. The largest
config that loads is 256,256,128,64 and 256,256,256 doesn't work either
(the problem isn't necessarily CS-swizzle on the last two slots).
The 256,256,128,64 passes RAM test all day long. "You could run Puppy on it" Back in its era, it ran FreeBSD and Win98 and one other OS.
Most of the chit-chat is just jerking Joels chain, but you knew that.
But all hardware has issues from an age perspective, eventually.
If you want impressive, see how much resources SuperGrub needs to boot.--
It's almost as good as the first versions of DBAN disk eraser (which
today, if you can find one, is a *lot* larger). There are things that
will run on a thimble.
Paul
On Fri, 12 Sep 2025 20:07:38 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 12/09/2025 6:52 pm, CtrlAltDel wrote:
On 12 Sep 2025 08:26:26 GMT, vallor wrote:Sorry! What?? I don't know that I've ever used Mint, I usually have
I just upgraded my Mint to 22.2, do you think Clem will come after me, >>>> too?
BTW, had absolutely no problems with the upgrade using the standard
software tool. (YMMV)
No, you and most everyone else is good. It's just the serial updaters
like Joel with which Mint developers have an issue.
Joel will tell you himself that they know him, personally, and don't
like the way he updates at the drop of hat and punished him by freezing
his ability to update when he didn't really need to.
He can still use Mint but, they aren't going to let him progress past
Mint 21.3 for a good while, to teach him a lesson.
MageiaLinux set up in a Dual Boot situation with whatever version of
Windows I have installed.
Why don't the Devs of Mint want 'Joel' to update to whatever the newest
Version of Mint may be as soon as possible?? Isn't that part of the
reason the Devs continue improving their system .... so people can
use/test it??
Or is 'Joel' one of those users who ONLY uses a system so they can find
Problems/Bugs/etc do demonstrate how "Pathetic" the new system is??
Joel had a perfectly fine system setup and then tried to update Mint one
day and he said it didn't work and that the developers of Mint had decided
it wasn't time for him to update.
He took it personally and decided that Mint developers and the creator of Mint chose to make an example out of him to teach others to not update
just because it was something to do.
I was undecided about his "conspiracy theory" so I decided to dig a little deeper. I found Clement Lefebvre and Vincent Vermeulen over at the Mint Matrix chat and brought up the topic.
Surprisingly, they confirmed his suspicions. They both relayed the fact
that a certain Joel W. Crump was known to them. A monitor had been placed
on his usage of Mint to determine if he was upgrading, as he had done in
the past, just for fun or because there was a real need for it.
It was decided that he didn't really need to update his system to the
latest Mint because his previous installation was working fine for him and that he was just being greedy and hogging bandwidth that other users could
be using. They confirmed that he always tried to update immediately and
they were kind of sick of it and him.
Sorry! The Mint Devs update systems .... but don't want Users (even if
they might be idiots) to use those, supposedly, updated systems!!
Makes sense to me ..... NOT!!
On 12/09/2025 12:46, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/12/2025 7:32 AM, MikeS wrote:More likely you totally messed up your old "more powerful" computer before you destroyed it. The new one "less powerful" has a proper, clean Windows install by the OEM and you have not messed it up - yet.
I asked you yesterday to explain what "complete reimagining" entails and you ignored the question. If "24H2 is a genuinely new version" tell us what changes since 23H2 justify your claim.After years dishing Windows you bought a new toy with Windows pre- installed, used it and realised that actually Windows is a pretty good OS. You can't bear to admit to being wrong so decided that Windows 11 24H2 must be a massive change. It isn't. As usual this new version is the same old OS with another gadget or two tacked on.
Factually incorrect. 24H2 is a genuinely new version, they just didn't change the name and appearance. They did the same thing with Windows 10, when they used customers as the beta testers starting with 1809, which is when I switched to Linux for a long time for the first time, in 2019. By 20H2, they'd come up with what was truly Win10, not Win9 being called Win10.
The computer I destroyed was more powerful, than this one. But I think Win11 24H2 runs smoother on it, now, than 23H2 did when I last had it on the previous one.
So you created a thread based on illogical nonsense.
On 11/09/2025 01:31, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2025 8:29 PM, Alan K wrote:
They were literally intending to call it Windows 12. But we'regot any links to where you see that?
talking about a complete reimagining of how it does things in the
background, something big is happening with this product. I'm rather >>>> taken by it.
You would have to be running it and observe what I've observed, I suppose. >>
Haven't most people been running 24H2 for ages now?
I mean good grief, 25H2 is due out soon.
Brian Gregory <[email protected]d> wrote at 00:52
this Thursday (GMT):
On 11/09/2025 01:31, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 9/10/2025 8:29 PM, Alan K wrote:Haven't most people been running 24H2 for ages now?
They were literally intending to call it Windows 12. But we'regot any links to where you see that?
talking about a complete reimagining of how it does things in the
background, something big is happening with this product. I'm
rather taken by it.
You would have to be running it and observe what I've observed, I
suppose.
I mean good grief, 25H2 is due out soon.
I always find it a tad annoying that companies release the "current
year" version halfway through the year.
You prefer it the other way around? I bought my '98 Harley in '97.
[snip]
You prefer it the other way around? I bought my '98 Harley in '97.
I bought my 1998 pickup in December 1997.
I always find it a tad annoying that companies release the "current
year" version halfway through the year.
Win8/8.1 Introduction of Inverted Hypervisor. The "Host" is the
driver layer, and Windows 8 would be a Guest of that
Hypervisor. Most instruction execution is flow-thru (does
not rely on some sort of emulated virtualization). It
means you can't hide the CPU-type from the running OS. Any
Guest that runs, can "sniff" the hardware and it knows the
hardware is not a Pentium 3. This generation of OS also
introduces Metro.App. And VirtualBox must be re-written,
to function as a "Guest handoff", rather than being a
direct hosting solution like on Linux.
And some issues with Windows, remained hidden. It took Anandtech to
discover that the Win10 had a "kink" in the performance curve, above
64 cores. And this is because of "processor groups" (enumeration
scheme above 64 cores). The Workstation version of Windows, supports
64 (virtual) cores.
On Fri, 12 Sep 2025 20:07:38 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 12/09/2025 6:52 pm, CtrlAltDel wrote:
On 12 Sep 2025 08:26:26 GMT, vallor wrote:Sorry! What?? I don't know that I've ever used Mint, I usually have
I just upgraded my Mint to 22.2, do you think Clem will come after me, >>>> too?
BTW, had absolutely no problems with the upgrade using the standard
software tool. (YMMV)
No, you and most everyone else is good. It's just the serial updaters
like Joel with which Mint developers have an issue.
Joel will tell you himself that they know him, personally, and don't
like the way he updates at the drop of hat and punished him by freezing
his ability to update when he didn't really need to.
He can still use Mint but, they aren't going to let him progress past
Mint 21.3 for a good while, to teach him a lesson.
MageiaLinux set up in a Dual Boot situation with whatever version of
Windows I have installed.
Why don't the Devs of Mint want 'Joel' to update to whatever the newest
Version of Mint may be as soon as possible?? Isn't that part of the
reason the Devs continue improving their system .... so people can
use/test it??
Or is 'Joel' one of those users who ONLY uses a system so they can find
Problems/Bugs/etc do demonstrate how "Pathetic" the new system is??
Joel had a perfectly fine system setup and then tried to update Mint one
day and he said it didn't work and that the developers of Mint had decided
it wasn't time for him to update.
He took it personally and decided that Mint developers and the creator of Mint chose to make an example out of him to teach others to not update
just because it was something to do.
I was undecided about his "conspiracy theory" so I decided to dig a little deeper. I found Clement Lefebvre and Vincent Vermeulen over at the Mint Matrix chat and brought up the topic.
Surprisingly, they confirmed his suspicions. They both relayed the fact
that a certain Joel W. Crump was known to them. A monitor had been placed
on his usage of Mint to determine if he was upgrading, as he had done in
the past, just for fun or because there was a real need for it.
It was decided that he didn't really need to update his system to the
latest Mint because his previous installation was working fine for him and that he was just being greedy and hogging bandwidth that other users could
be using. They confirmed that he always tried to update immediately and
they were kind of sick of it and him.
On 12/09/2025 23:04, CtrlAltDel wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2025 20:07:38 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 12/09/2025 6:52 pm, CtrlAltDel wrote:
On 12 Sep 2025 08:26:26 GMT, vallor wrote:Sorry! What?? I don't know that I've ever used Mint, I usually have
I just upgraded my Mint to 22.2, do you think Clem will come after me, >>>>> too?
BTW, had absolutely no problems with the upgrade using the standard
software tool. (YMMV)
No, you and most everyone else is good. It's just the serial updaters >>>> like Joel with which Mint developers have an issue.
Joel will tell you himself that they know him, personally, and don't
like the way he updates at the drop of hat and punished him by freezing >>>> his ability to update when he didn't really need to.
He can still use Mint but, they aren't going to let him progress past
Mint 21.3 for a good while, to teach him a lesson.
MageiaLinux set up in a Dual Boot situation with whatever version of
Windows I have installed.
Why don't the Devs of Mint want 'Joel' to update to whatever the newest
Version of Mint may be as soon as possible?? Isn't that part of the
reason the Devs continue improving their system .... so people can
use/test it??
Or is 'Joel' one of those users who ONLY uses a system so they can find
Problems/Bugs/etc do demonstrate how "Pathetic" the new system is??
Joel had a perfectly fine system setup and then tried to update Mint one
day and he said it didn't work and that the developers of Mint had decided >> it wasn't time for him to update.
He took it personally and decided that Mint developers and the creator of
Mint chose to make an example out of him to teach others to not update
just because it was something to do.
I was undecided about his "conspiracy theory" so I decided to dig a little >> deeper. I found Clement Lefebvre and Vincent Vermeulen over at the Mint
Matrix chat and brought up the topic.
Surprisingly, they confirmed his suspicions. They both relayed the fact
that a certain Joel W. Crump was known to them. A monitor had been placed >> on his usage of Mint to determine if he was upgrading, as he had done in
the past, just for fun or because there was a real need for it.
It was decided that he didn't really need to update his system to the
latest Mint because his previous installation was working fine for him and >> that he was just being greedy and hogging bandwidth that other users could >> be using. They confirmed that he always tried to update immediately and
they were kind of sick of it and him.
So does he keep reinstalling old versions and updating over and over trying to make it work?
Or does he keep complaining when the updates aren't compatible with his old hardware?
You can't seriously be saying that the LM people are annoyed because every time a new version comes out somebody updates their PC?
How would they even be able to stop some particular person from updating?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2025 09:48:13 -0400, Paul wrote:
Win8/8.1 Introduction of Inverted Hypervisor. The "Host" is the
driver layer, and Windows 8 would be a Guest of that
Hypervisor. Most instruction execution is flow-thru (does
not rely on some sort of emulated virtualization). It
means you can't hide the CPU-type from the running OS. Any
Guest that runs, can "sniff" the hardware and it knows the
hardware is not a Pentium 3. This generation of OS also
introduces Metro.App. And VirtualBox must be re-written,
to function as a "Guest handoff", rather than being a
direct hosting solution like on Linux.
What did that do to WSL2? Does that require major changes to the Linux
kernel to work properly under this virtualization-that-isn’t-really-virtualization? Does that explain why things are not quite 100% compatible with native Linux?
And some issues with Windows, remained hidden. It took Anandtech to
discover that the Win10 had a "kink" in the performance curve, above
64 cores. And this is because of "processor groups" (enumeration
scheme above 64 cores). The Workstation version of Windows, supports
64 (virtual) cores.
Linux is already a full-function “workstation” OS. This is why Windows will always remain a mere “desktop” OS, not capable of being taken seriously in the “workstation” market.
There is updating and upgrading.
To Upgrade to a next OS version requires:VirtualBox will be version-bumped
3) Look for materials that use DKMS. For example, LM222 currently cannot run VirtualBox,
so knowing that, you would remove VirtualBox from the install tree (the data files will
be safe, until the next time a VirtualBox is installed).
when the kernel related issue is fixed.> > Paul
On 15/09/2025 14:57, Paul wrote:
To Upgrade to a next OS version requires:
3) Look for materials that use DKMS. For example, LM222 currently
cannot run VirtualBox,
so knowing that, you would remove VirtualBox from the install tree >> (the data files will
be safe, until the next time a VirtualBox is installed). VirtualBox will be version-bumped
when the kernel related issue is fixed.> > Paul
Could you explain please. I have no idea what you mean by DKMS and LM222
but I use VirtualBox routinely and it works the same as ever on Version
24H2 (OS Build 26100.4946).
Windows 95 (the first year-numbered product from Microsoft, as I recall) didn’t come out until August 1995.
Windows 98 -- May 1998.
Windows Me - Oct 2001. Even if you think the 21st century begins in 2001
and not 2000, that’s still pretty tardy.
Office 2003 -- Oct 2003.--
So you see, it’s not a rare thing for Microsoft products.
On 14 Sep 2025 18:05:40 GMT, Mark Lloyd wrote:
[snip]
You prefer it the other way around? I bought my '98 Harley in '97.
I bought my 1998 pickup in December 1997.
That's a little more reasonable. iirc I bought the bike in July. After
doing the 500 mile breakin in a weekend, I took a little trip through
eastern Montana. Somebody outside of a diner asked if I was going to
Sturgis. Definitely not. I've been through Sturgis several times,
thankfully not during the rally. I think even the new model car releases
were further into the year.
On 15/09/2025 18:51, MikeS wrote:
On 15/09/2025 14:57, Paul wrote:The penny just dropped. This is a Linux debate in the middle of a Windows thread on a Windows forum. Never mind, you just made a great case for using Windows to the Linux devotees.
To Upgrade to a next OS version requires:
3) Look for materials that use DKMS. For example, LM222 currently cannot run VirtualBox,
so knowing that, you would remove VirtualBox from the install tree (the data files will
; be safe, until the next time a VirtualBox is installed). VirtualBox will be version-bumped
; when the kernel related issue is fixed.> > Paul
Could you explain please. I have no idea what you mean by DKMS and LM222 but I use VirtualBox routinely and it works the same as ever on Version 24H2 (OS Build 26100.4946).
There was no year 0. That should be all you need to know about when centuries start.
On 15 Sep 2025 19:43:00 GMT, Mark Lloyd wrote:
There was no year 0. That should be all you need to know about when
centuries start.
There was no year 1 either.
On 15 Sep 2025 00:38:23 GMT, rbowman wrote:
On 14 Sep 2025 18:05:40 GMT, Mark Lloyd wrote:
[snip]
You prefer it the other way around? I bought my '98 Harley in '97.
I bought my 1998 pickup in December 1997.
That's a little more reasonable. iirc I bought the bike in July. After
doing the 500 mile breakin in a weekend, I took a little trip through
eastern Montana. Somebody outside of a diner asked if I was going to
Sturgis. Definitely not. I've been through Sturgis several times,
thankfully not during the rally. I think even the new model car
releases were further into the year.
I didn't know that new models were available that early.
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