On 2026-10-13, J. P. Gilliver <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2026/10/13 12:8:51, JMB99 wrote:
This seems to confirm what I thought
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Coul you re-ask the AI, specifying fuel-only cars?
This implies, I presume, that results of searches that
do not involve AI are inadmissable to this discussion. ;-)
On 2026-10-13 21:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 19:54:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Sorry - mistyle for "snips". I'm mistyping (!) a lot more these days!
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and >>>> keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
Ah! :-)
Yes, I try to snip when the post is too long.
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of
course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this
system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty replacement)
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of >>> course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this >>> system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty
replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were
often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old.
It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good
deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5
year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed
it with fuel
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone
told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer bonnet.)
On Tue, 10/13/2026 7:52 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It >>>> saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are >>>> stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of >>>> course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this >>>> system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty >>> replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
Various bits get redesigned.
https://www.powerelectronictips.com/understanding-stop-start-automobile-engine-design-part-4-mechanical-wear-issues/
it's a good tactic,
just one prophylactic,
in your pocket, just for luck -
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further testReally? I thought automatic-only test-sitting - whatever it is intended eventually to drive - was (in England) the exception rather than the
to drive a manual car.
rule,
used mainly by those who find driving _at all_ difficult.>
No; if you're willing to do the hard slog yourself, go ahead! And yes, I
do appreciate that AI results can be misleading.
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were >>>> often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old. >>> It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good
deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5
year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed
it with fuel
model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It
certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone
told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine
compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer
bonnet.)
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old.
It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!),
and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone told me
-
was such that a small person could have stood in the engine compartment
next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer bonnet.)
In UK. I don't _think_ US has the two types of licence - I can't speak
for other countries. I think a US visitor to UK can legally drive a
manual, even if has never done so - for as long as their licence remains valid in the UK (2 or 3 years, I think). Whether they can get
_insurance_, I don't know - I would _hope_ hire companies, for example,
ask the question, but how easy it is for them to check the honesty of
the answer, I don't know.>
I'm sure you are right for someone learning to drive, for that licence reason; but there are (or were? Not sure if still) models that turn off
the engine whenever the car is stationary for more than a preset short period. they have bigger batteries for all the extra starts, and I think _may_ have regen. braking to help keep it charged - so could be (and no
doubt are) called hybrids, but they aren't really, in that there is no electric _propulsion_ involved. [Are those what are/were called "mild hybrids"?]
On 2026-10-14, Paul <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Tue, 10/13/2026 7:52 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It >>>>> saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are >>>>> stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of >>>>> course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this >>>>> system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty >>>> replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
Various bits get redesigned.
https://www.powerelectronictips.com/understanding-stop-start-automobile-engine-design-part-4-mechanical-wear-issues/
Wow. Looks like some people have actually been giving this
some thought. I guess I've just become too jaded by decades
of exposure to shitty software design. I'm saving those
references for when I have time to read more of them.
I am gratified to see that my 10x estimate is on the money.
Looks like my brain's SWAG (scientific wild-assed guess)
mechanism is still in good working order.
On Tue, 10/13/2026 10:51 PM, c186282 wrote:
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury >>> model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were >>>>> often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old. >>>> It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good >>>> deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5 >>>> year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed >>>> it with fuel
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It
certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone
told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine
compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer
bonnet.)
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
Well, petrol is expensive there, so there's no particular
advantage to "driving a boat". You'd just end up leaving it
at home.
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
On Tue, 10/13/2026 10:51 PM, c186282 wrote:
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury >>> model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were >>>>> often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old. >>>> It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good >>>> deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5 >>>> year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed >>>> it with fuel
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It
certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone
told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine
compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer
bonnet.)
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
Well, petrol is expensive there, so there's no particular
advantage to "driving a boat". You'd just end up leaving it
at home.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel.
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
I had the car for 8 years, it was ok for that time, which I'd expect, I don't aim to own cars for long enough for them to start going wrong.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
It had a 'normal' pinion starter (i.e. with teeth) but when it did the stop/start trick, it used the alternator as a secondary starter, and the start was much quicker than a cold start, so it turned the engine via
the ribbed 'fan' belt, therefore no teeth to break.
It had rules for when it would use stop/start (oil temp not too cold, battery charge not too low, aircon not working too hard, etc)
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly fromI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
Latin, not through French.
On 2026/10/13 12:8:51, JMB99 wrote:
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further testReally? I thought automatic-only test-sitting - whatever it is intended eventually to drive - was (in England) the exception rather than the
to drive a manual car.
rule, used mainly by those who find driving _at all_ difficult.>
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of
course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this
system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty
replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or
of course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for
this system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty replacement)
On Tue, 10/13/2026 7:52 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It >>>> saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of >>>> course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this >>>> system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty >>> replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
Various bits get redesigned.
https://www.powerelectronictips.com/understanding-stop-start-automobile-engine-design-part-4-mechanical-wear-issues/
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly fromI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
Latin, not through French.
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French, regardless how closely related.
On 2026-10-14 00:15, Andy Burns wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel.
It saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you
are stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes,
or of course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for
this system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old
(warranty replacement)
Fan belt? You actually had a fan moved by a belt? I have not seen that
in forty years, here (AFAIK) all the fans are electric.
Unless "fan belt" is just the name.
Typically the belt moves the alternator, the water pump, maybe the air conditioner compressor...
Some brands had the bright idea of having a cam shaft rubber belt
submerged in oil (groan).
Carlos E.R. wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old
(warranty replacement)
Fan belt? You actually had a fan moved by a belt? I have not seen that
in forty years, here (AFAIK) all the fans are electric.
Unless "fan belt" is just the name.
we tend to call it a fan belt even when its really an auxiliiary drive belt
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
On 2026-10-13 20:57, Andy Burns wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and >>>> keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
Think typo.
My single neuron on duty comes out empty.
On 10/14/26 00:32, Paul wrote:
On Tue, 10/13/2026 10:51 PM, c186282 wrote:
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury >>>> model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were >>>>>> often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old. >>>>> It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a >>>>> fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good >>>>> deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5 >>>>> year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed >>>>> it with fuel
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It >>>> certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone >>>> told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine
compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer
bonnet.)
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
I think it's been true to say that for some years, most models widely
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
Well, petrol is expensive there, so there's no particular
advantage to "driving a boat". You'd just end up leaving it
at home.
In USA we often call boats "a hole in the ocean
into which you pour money" :-)
On 2026/10/13 21:9:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 21:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Judging by this thread alone, you and I are very much in the minority.
On 2026/10/13 19:54:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Sorry - mistyle for "snips". I'm mistyping (!) a lot more these days!
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and >>>>> keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
Ah! :-)
Yes, I try to snip when the post is too long.
Andy Burns wrote:
I don't aim to own cars for long enough for them to start going wrong.
There is some logic in that.
However it'd sure be NICE to have a car
that'd hold up really well for 200k miles
or so. Toyotas ? Maybe worth the extra $$$.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
What, with modern design/engineering they can't
make a robust flywheel ????????
Bullshit !
USA cars, 1959, WORKED. The flywheels would not
fall apart. The valve train would not fall apart.
Even the damned starter motor - it could be
replaced quick cheap and easy.
What the fuck HAPPENED - and WHY did we put
up with it ???????
Past time for a new American brand - something
truly "robust" and dead functional.
This seems to confirm what I thought
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further test
to drive a manual car.
On 14/10/2026 8:02 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 21:9:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 21:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 19:54:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Sorry - mistyle for "snips". I'm mistyping (!) a lot more these days!
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and >>>>>> keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
Ah! :-)
Yes, I try to snip when the post is too long.
I think the problem might be with "too long"!Judging by this thread alone, you and I are very much in the minority.
Your "too long" could be my "just getting started"!! ;-p
On 10/14/26 03:02, Andy Burns wrote:[SNIP]
USA cars, 1959, WORKED. The flywheels would not
fall apart. The valve train would not fall apart.
Even the damned starter motor - it could be
replaced quick cheap and easy.
What the fuck HAPPENED - and WHY did we put
up with it ???????
Past time for a new American brand - something
truly "robust" and dead functional.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:[]
we tend to call it a fan belt even when its really an auxiliiary drive belt
I thought I'd written fan in scare quotes ...
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
On 2026/10/14 9:42:31, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 03:02, Andy Burns wrote:[SNIP]
USA cars, 1959, WORKED. The flywheels would notTrouble is, because of the extra metal, and the design effort needing to
fall apart. The valve train would not fall apart.
Even the damned starter motor - it could be
replaced quick cheap and easy.
What the fuck HAPPENED - and WHY did we put
up with it ???????
Past time for a new American brand - something
truly "robust" and dead functional.
be paid for, you'd end up with something costing more for the same
(possibly even slightly worse because heavier) performance - which
wouldn't sell. Sure, people'd get their money back eventually - but
would have to keep the car (or other consumer product) long enough to
see it, and many can't look that far ahead - and that's before the
modern obsession with always having the latest. ("I don't change my
'phone every time the bell rings" - Sir David Attenborough.)
(You can leave the "American" out - same applies everywhere.)
So there's little incentive for the manufacturers to develop such a
product. There _would_ be a market - but not big enough to get the
economies of scale. (Plus, the manufacturers _like_ us to buy new every
X years, of course.)
My guess is that driving students choose to learn with a manual, because
the license allows them to drive any car.
On 13/10/2026 4:28 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Just as well we both speak English!!
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
On 13/10/2026 4:28 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Just as well we both speak English!!
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
On 14/10/2026 14:01, Daniel70 wrote:
On 13/10/2026 4:28 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Just as well we both speak English!!
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their
egos
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and
elevator for lift, is he?
No. That is American inferiority complex.
It took me over a year to decide which type of 'compact' SUV to buy,
it's so nice to just step in and have the seat naturally be at
arse-height, and step out and have the ground naturally be at the level
my feet reach.
I still haven't got used to the different visibility from the snub nose
and slab sides though.
European cars mostly can GO ROUND CORNERS because roads follow old
droving tracks that wove in and out of trees and streams long after the
trees and streams were gone.
I had basically the same car, but with just a 1.1 L engine, 42 "horses".
They could put 3 engines like that in the same space. So with just one
engine there was space for a full litter of kittens and another of dogs,
2 month old, with room to spare.
Fan belt? You actually had a fan moved by a belt? I have not seen that
in forty years, here (AFAIK) all the fans are electric.
yes, Cam belts are quiet, in oil they are even quieter, They have even
more limited life
Though I did discover (I think it was on my current one, which isn't
really a snub-nose) that the packed-in appearance you see when you lift
the bonnet (hood) is at least partly because there's a moulded piece of
black plastic which makes the whole underbonnet area look neat, and full
(and _may_ have some effect on airflow, though I doubt it); when you
remove that, what's underneath looks much as I expected a car engine to
look.
It's for people who thing that clutch control/gear changing is the most difficult part of driving, when it's just a mechanical/muscular process
that, once learnt is never forgotten, whereas the difficult part of
driving is working out what other road users are doing and avoiding
crashing into people/vehicles/objects.
On Wed, 14 Oct 2026 11:34:20 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
It's for people who thing that clutch control/gear changing is the most
difficult part of driving, when it's just a mechanical/muscular process
that, once learnt is never forgotten, whereas the difficult part of
driving is working out what other road users are doing and avoiding
crashing into people/vehicles/objects.
A Volvo White truck I drove had a 9 speed overdrive transmission. The
basic shift pattern was
1 2
3 4
I put over 100,000 on that truck and still would blow shifts if I wasn't paying attention. Muscle memory isn't always a good thing.
On 14/10/2026 10:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>In fact they don't
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directlyI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as
from Latin, not through French.
Germanic languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance
ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
That is simply one branch of the Indo European tree.
Not only are there other branches but there are even other trees.
Almost no language is based on Greek
That in modern times the default second language is English and words
get borrowed to augment existing vocabularies is neither here nor there
Le weekend, schadenfreude, Weltanschauung, zeitgeist, are NOT borrowed
from Latin Greek or French
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly fromI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
Latin, not through French.
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French, regardless how closely related.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
On 2026-10-15 05:14, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic >>>> languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
That's the claim, yes. The issue is not certain. Its origins are not
really known.
On 15/10/2026 14:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
On 2026-10-15 05:14, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
That's the claim, yes. The issue is not certain. Its origins are not
really known.
Its not soi much a claim as an observation that none of it bears any resemblance to any indo European language whatsoever. Or indeed any
other language in existence.
The Basques might as well have arrived on a spaceship 1000 years ago...escaping a mutant star-goat*
*From Golgafrincham
The Golgafrinchans realised that were three types of beings on the
planet of Golgafrincham: the leaders (or thinkers), the workers (or
doers), and the middlemen.
The leaders contained the artists and "achievers". The workers were the people who "did all the actual work", and who made and did things. The middle management was comprised of hairdressers, telephone sanitisers,
and other such "worthless jobs."
The group of leaders built a ship and convinced the middlemen to leave Golgafrincham by telling them several different reasons, including: that
the planet was going to crash into the sun (or perhaps the moon was
going to crash into the planet), that the planet was being invaded by a gigantic swarm of twelve foot piranha bees, and that "the entire planet
was in imminent danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
On 2026/10/15 14:57:0, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/10/2026 14:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
On 2026-10-15 05:14, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French, >>>>> regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
That's the claim, yes. The issue is not certain. Its origins are not
really known.
I've heard a similar claim about Welsh - or rather, that there is one language it _does_ have some commonality with, but it's not one used in
any of the neighbouring countries.
though looking at the two of them now, I can see very little
commonality, so I might be remembering that wrong[ly]. [I don't actually speak either of them.])
Nut they made sure that the middle tranche were shipped off the planetIts not soi much a claim as an observation that none of it bears any
resemblance to any indo European language whatsoever. Or indeed any
other language in existence.
The Basques might as well have arrived on a spaceship 1000 years
ago...escaping a mutant star-goat*
*From Golgafrincham
The Golgafrinchans realised that were three types of beings on the
planet of Golgafrincham: the leaders (or thinkers), the workers (or
doers), and the middlemen.
The leaders contained the artists and "achievers". The workers were the
people who "did all the actual work", and who made and did things. The
middle management was comprised of hairdressers, telephone sanitisers,
and other such "worthless jobs."
The group of leaders built a ship and convinced the middlemen to leave
Golgafrincham by telling them several different reasons, including: that
the planet was going to crash into the sun (or perhaps the moon was
going to crash into the planet), that the planet was being invaded by a
gigantic swarm of twelve foot piranha bees, and that "the entire planet
was in imminent danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat
first - in the "B ark".
Once they'd done that, they sat back and relaxed, having rid themselves
of an entire useless third of the population. Until they were wiped out
by a plague caught from an unexpectedly dirty telephone.
DNA was taken from us far too soon. (And Victoria Wood.)
On 15/10/2026 04:14, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic >>>> languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Formerly known as the "Aryan Mother Tongue".
That's the claim, yes. The issue is not certain. Its origins are not
really known.
Finnish is more correct. IIRC its Ugric Uralic and shares roots with Hungarian and Estonian or some such. It comes from the Ural mountains
rather than Indo-Europen roots
How the F it got to Finland OR Hungary is probably an hours research.
On 15/10/2026 04:14, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directlyI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as
from Latin, not through French.
Germanic languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance
ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread influence. There
are also mutant terms from Iran and even India mixed-in early on.
It's why they call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Formerly known as the "Aryan Mother Tongue".
On 15/10/2026 17:24, Max Demian wrote:
On 15/10/2026 04:14, c186282 wrote:That's actually a lot more true than most other NaziBollocks™
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly >>>>>> fromI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic >>>>> languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
Latin, not through French.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Formerly known as the "Aryan Mother Tongue".
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Formerly known as the "Aryan Mother Tongue".
In article <11aqunk$2ibri$[email protected]>,
Max Demian <[email protected]> wrote:
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Formerly known as the "Aryan Mother Tongue".
The words "Iran" and "Aryan" have the same origin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Iran#Etymology_of_Iran
-- Richard--
Nothing Nazi. I read the expression in a dictionary by someone called
Wilde, collected by my parents in fortnightly instalments in the 1930s. Common at the time: you returned them to the publisher who bound them
and sent them back to you: they just looked like a regular bound book.
On 12/10/2026 19:45, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Yes,Well they do genarally have gearboxes and transmissions, even if the
pure electrics are in effect automatics (at least they have no
gearbox/"transmission"); I'm not sure about hybrids.
ratio is fixed...
the motor in each wheel is fairly rare
On 12/10/2026 19:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
the default is manual except for luxury vehicles.
That is not what I found when I changed my car earlier this year.
JMB99 wrote:
On 12/10/2026 19:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
the default is manual except for luxury vehicles.
That is not what I found when I changed my car earlier this year.
Because it's no longer true.
On 2026/10/16 14:4:47, Max Demian wrote:
[]
Nothing Nazi. I read the expression in a dictionary by someone called
Wilde, collected by my parents in fortnightly instalments in the 1930s.
Common at the time: you returned them to the publisher who bound them
and sent them back to you: they just looked like a regular bound book.
You mean they posted the parts to you fortnightly, you then posted them
back, and they then posted them back to you agaun?
On 2026/10/16 14:4:47, Max Demian wrote:
[]
Nothing Nazi. I read the expression in a dictionary by someone called
Wilde, collected by my parents in fortnightly instalments in the 1930s.
Common at the time: you returned them to the publisher who bound them
and sent them back to you: they just looked like a regular bound book.
You mean they posted the parts to you fortnightly, you then posted them
back, and they then posted them back to you agaun?
The Natural Philosopher wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_xCssR8qQI
On 12/10/2026 19:45, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Yes,Well they do genarally have gearboxes and transmissions, even if the
pure electrics are in effect automatics (at least they have no
gearbox/"transmission"); I'm not sure about hybrids.
ratio is fixed...
No. Check into Toyota's system.
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language--
seems unique, independent.
When people spoke of "Indo-European", I thought the 'Indo' was from a
little further east than India, .... like "Indonesia".
On 15/10/2026 2:14 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$[email protected]:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic >>>> languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
When people spoke of "Indo-European", I thought the 'Indo' was from a
little further east than India, .... like "Indonesia".
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe in them*.
On 2026/10/2 7:21:45, c186282 wrote:
Found some records for the UK, Birmingham
perhaps. The average age of death for
"ordinary workers" was *19* in the
mid 1800s. "Business people" could
expect maybe *35* on average. Only
A _lot_ of those statistics are skewed by both infant and child
mortality - well, not skewed because that's what "average" actually
_means_. But in a lot of cases adults _did_ live longer than the
_average_ figures at first suggest - though I agree, a lot less than we
do now. That's one of the reasons we're in trouble with the cost of
pensions: when the scheme (which is basically a legalized Ponzi scheme)
was set up, people weren't expected to live more than say four or five
years into retirement, and very few governments dared to raise the age
as longevity increased.
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe
in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
On 2026-10-04 16:26, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Yes - same effect as a photographic flashgun. (The thing mu dentist uses
is held in place somehow - articulated arm probably, I've never noticed
- and I hold still. It makes a short noise when the dentist the other
side of the door presses her button, but I think significantly more of a
second than a millisecond. and I still think the thing in black plastic
wrap that she puts in a holder inside my mouth - held in a wire frame
attached to a clamp, that I bite down on - is a piece of film.)
I suppose it is a second of preparation, not the actual "shot".
As for those using electronic sensors: I am sure there _are_ (and they
use) ones specifically designed to detect X-rays, but I would imagine
even ones designed for light would detect X-rays, as X-rays are more
energetic than light; I suppose using sensors designed _only_ for X-rays
avoids the necessity to wrap them in something to keep the light out.--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
If, after hearing my songs, just one human being is inspired to say
something nasty to a friend, or perhaps to strike a loved one, it will
all have been worth the while.
- Liner notes, "Songs & More Songs By Tom Lehrer", Rhino Records, 1997.
You forgot to add the signature separator.
You forgot to add the signature separator.No, it's there .... at the right hand end of the line prior to the "J.
P. Gilliver ....." signature line before the last paragraph which is
part of J.P.'s sig file.
I think that problem is referred to as the "Sig Delimiter suck effect".
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe in
them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
On 18/10/2026 15:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[..]
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
Your sig is greyed out here (Thunderbird 146.0 (64-bit) on macOS). And
if I reply it's automatically removed.
On 2026-10-18 16:06, John Bokma wrote:
On 18/10/2026 15:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[..]
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
Your sig is greyed out here (Thunderbird 146.0 (64-bit) on macOS). And
if I reply it's automatically removed.
It happens when there is no white line separating the signature block.
Like this.
On 18/10/2026 15:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[..]
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
Your sig is greyed out here (Thunderbird 146.0 (64-bit) on macOS). And
if I reply it's automatically removed.
Back in about 2000, the Australian Government DID start raising the
Pension age, First raising the Woman's Pension Age from 60yo, increasing
a year every two years, so by 2010 the Women's pension Age would be
65yo, same as the Men's pension age.
Since then the Pension Age for both Men and Women is increasing a year
every four or five years until it reaches 70yo.
On 18/10/2026 13:29, Daniel70 wrote:
You forgot to add the signature separator.No, it's there .... at the right hand end of the line prior to the "J.
P. Gilliver ....." signature line before the last paragraph which is
part of J.P.'s sig file.
I think that problem is referred to as the "Sig Delimiter suck effect".
Its hateful - I often accidentally corrupt or delete the separator
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
On 18/10/2026 15:06, John Bokma wrote:
On 18/10/2026 15:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Yes, that's not what I meant. I meant I wish when *composing* that the
[..]
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
Your sig is greyed out here (Thunderbird 146.0 (64-bit) on macOS). And
if I reply it's automatically removed.
sig wasn't editable
On 18/10/2026 15:06, John Bokma wrote:
On 18/10/2026 15:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Yes, that's not what I meant. I meant I wish when *composing* that the > sig wasn't editable
[..]
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
Your sig is greyed out here (Thunderbird 146.0 (64-bit) on macOS). And
if I reply it's automatically removed.
On 2026/10/18 14:44:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/10/2026 13:29, Daniel70 wrote:Yes, it's a linefeed-eating bug in Thunderbird; there was one similar in
You forgot to add the signature separator.No, it's there .... at the right hand end of the line prior to the "J.
P. Gilliver ....." signature line before the last paragraph which is
part of J.P.'s sig file.
I think that problem is referred to as the "Sig Delimiter suck effect".
Its hateful - I often accidentally corrupt or delete the separator
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
the early 140s version, but it was fixed, but came back (at a later
revision) - not quite the same, this time round it particularly likes to swallow the linefeed before the "-- " line, thus rendering it
ineffective. It doesn't _always_ do it, which is worse. The most
irritating aspect of the bug is that it happens between the compose
editor and the actual sending: the post looks fine when I click "send".
(It isn't _just_ the one before the .sig that gets eaten: if I post with
some new text followed by one or more blank lines of quoted text, I get
a line ending like this>>>.)
It's allegedly been fixed in Betterbird, and possibly some of the
non-esr versions of Thunderbird; hoping it'll be fixed in the ESR
version soon. (In the meantime, I just have to remember to insert lots
of extra blank lines.)
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe
in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a case
for it.
The fey were traditionally asexual, bisexual or of either sex depending
on who was writing the stories
On 2026/10/18 12:45:33, Daniel70 wrote: []
Back in about 2000, the Australian Government DID start raising
the Pension age, First raising the Woman's Pension Age from 60yo,
increasing a year every two years, so by 2010 the Women's pension
Age would be 65yo, same as the Men's pension age.
UK did the same - I'm not sure of the details of how and when, but
men and women are now the same. (There's some trouble at the moment
with the group of women who "missed out" [had their pension date made
later] without, they claim possibly with some justification, that
they weren't given adequate time to make the extra provisions
necessary.)>
Since then the Pension Age for both Men and Women is increasing a
year every four or five years until it reaches 70yo.
I think something similar should be done in all countries where
longevity is increasing (ideally with the jumps being less than a
year, so people don't have such a nasty surprise; UK did that with
the last change, e. g. my pension start at 66 and one month).
and, if longevity _does_ continue to increase, not stop at 70. One
year every four or five is gentle enough that it shouldn't be _that_
painful, though of course people will always complain. Have the
Australian Government definitely said they'll stop at 70? (Has it
reached that yet?)
On 18/10/2026 15:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[..]
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
Your sig is greyed out here (Thunderbird 146.0 (64-bit) on macOS). And
if I reply it's automatically removed.
On 2026-10-18 16:06, John Bokma wrote:
On 18/10/2026 15:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[..]
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
Your sig is greyed out here (Thunderbird 146.0 (64-bit) on macOS). And
if I reply it's automatically removed.
It happens when there is no white line separating the signature block.
Like this.
On 18/10/2026 11:24 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe >>>> in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a
case for it.
Sorry, four words .... "Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle"?? What
other interpretation are people supposed to make??
The fey were traditionally asexual, bisexual or of either sexhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fey
depending on who was writing the stories
1 a chiefly Scotland : fated to die : doomed
b : marked by a foreboding of death or calamity
(2)
: effeminate … a fey young lad … with his nose buried in fashion magazines, putting on fashion shows in the attic with his sister, garbed
in their mum's clothes.
Daniel70 wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Transgender people,� like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe in
them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >Peter_Pan_(1954_musical)#Television_productions
Was Peter Pan transgender? The TV show was my exposure to the story.
On 19/10/2026 10:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/10/2026 11:24 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe >>>>> in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a
case for it.
Sorry, four words .... "Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle"?? What
other interpretation are people supposed to make??
Are you really so illiterate?
There is a difference between
Dead men, like Trump, always begin to smell
and
Dead men like Trump, always begin to smell
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about punctuation
The fey were traditionally asexual, bisexual or of either sex
depending on who was writing the stories
On 19/10/2026 1:06 am, John Bokma wrote:
On 18/10/2026 15:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Yeap, that auto-deletion of the sig file is a good idea.
[..]
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
Your sig is greyed out here (Thunderbird 146.0 (64-bit) on macOS). And
if I reply it's automatically removed.
Me, on the other hand, I often delete all those empty lines so my sig delimiter is often the very next line following the text.
My mother used to say someone was "a bit fey" if she thought he was -
gay, I suppose, or at least behaving in an unconventional manner.
On 2026/10/19 9:50:47, Daniel70 wrote:
[]
Me, on the other hand, I often delete all those empty lines so my sigMe too - I don't like inserting trailing blank lines. (Which is why
delimiter is often the very next line following the text.
the newline-eating bug often corrupts my signature separator.)
On 2026/10/19 12:35:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about
punctuation
I'd second that - it's a fun book, too, not _just_ about punctuation and
the like.
A more fun example: "Have you finished eating, Grandma?" gains a
completely different meaning if you leave out the comma!
On 2026-10-19, J. P. Gilliver <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2026/10/19 12:35:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about
punctuation
I'd second that - it's a fun book, too, not _just_ about punctuation and
the like.
A more fun example: "Have you finished eating, Grandma?" gains a
completely different meaning if you leave out the comma!
"Avoid commas, that are not necessary."
-- William Safire
On 18/10/2026 21:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:No, it happens sometimes, but one of the triggers is no separation blank
On 2026-10-18 16:06, John Bokma wrote:
On 18/10/2026 15:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[..]
I wish thunderbird would 'grey it out'
Your sig is greyed out here (Thunderbird 146.0 (64-bit) on macOS).
And if I reply it's automatically removed.
It happens when there is no white line separating the signature block.
Like this.
Not here. I see it greyed out and it's automatically removed when I
reply. Currently, Thunderbird 158.0 (64-bit) (I updated after I wrote
the previous reply). Maybe it has been fixed?
On 2026/10/19 9:50:47, Daniel70 wrote:
[]
Me, on the other hand, I often delete all those empty lines so my sigMe too - I don't like inserting trailing blank lines. (Which is why the newline-eating bug often corrupts my signature separator.)
delimiter is often the very next line following the text.
On 19/10/2026 10:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/10/2026 11:24 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Are you really so illiterate?
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people
*believe in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a
case for it.
Sorry, four words .... "Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle"?? What
other interpretation are people supposed to make??
There is a difference between
Dead men, like Trump, always begin to smell
and
Dead men like Trump, always begin to smell
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about punctuation
Jan Panteltje <[email protected]d>wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>wrote:
In the early sixties of last century I got hold of an old round CRT with 70 degrees deflection tube.
I think round ones survived longer in USA; I've certainly seen (pictures >>> of) colour (or rather color!) ones that were. Not sure why. Even pre-war >>> ones (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhfs7FjKspw for Gerry
demonstrating one) here weren't round, though some of them had very
rounded corners!
Nice video, yes, the round one ! in a rectangular housing!
One thing I want to mention about those very old CRT TVs:
The extra thick glass screen in front was not so much against radiation,
but to protect people from 'imploding' CRTs
You could else accidently hit the front, and the CRT would implode,
then spit out pieces of glass all over the place.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:That must be a special Aussie edition?
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about
punctuation
Is this a different book compared to the one I came across yonks
ago .... "Eats, ROOTS, Shoots and Leaves"??
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
On 19/10/2026 10:35 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:[]
On 19/10/2026 10:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/10/2026 11:24 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Are you really so illiterate?
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people
*believe in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a
case for it.
Sorry, four words .... "Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle"?? What
other interpretation are people supposed to make??
No, I don't think I am illiterate .... just reading the words YOU typed
and trying to make sense of them and this is the first time I've read
the suggestion that Tinkerball might have been transgender.
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
On 20/10/2026 12:40, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
I assumed you would understand (a great leap of faith admittedly) that
the context was *commercial* shipping
People still drive a horse and cart. And shoot arrows with bows. Too.
On 2026/10/20 12:40:8, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
For pleasure, yes. I think Carlos meant goods ships. Which, indeed, did suffer a _decline_ when steamships more or less replaced them - but have recently started a resurgence, not as sole source of power (which would
be daft as it's not always there), but auxiliary. Even by Maersk, one of
the more hard-headed freight companies.
On 20/10/2026 19:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/20 12:40:8, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the >>>>> same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
For pleasure, yes. I think Carlos meant goods ships. Which, indeed, did
suffer a _decline_ when steamships more or less replaced them - but have
recently started a resurgence, not as sole source of power (which would
be daft as it's not always there), but auxiliary. Even by Maersk, one of
the more hard-headed freight companies.
They are merely testing them out. They have also concluded that, other things being equal, nuclear ships would be better than either.
The great advantage to nuclear is that there is very little advantage to going slower
You can trade slightly greater maintenance costs for many more tonne
miles per interest repayment
Fuel costs are practically nil
They are merely testing them out. They have also concluded that, other
things being equal, nuclear ships would be better than either.
Insurance, port permissions... plus finding trained personnel.
On 20/10/2026 12:40, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
I assumed you would understand (a great leap of faith admittedly) that
the context was *commercial* shipping
People still drive a horse and cart. And shoot arrows with bows. Too.--
On 21/10/2026 10:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They are merely testing them out. They have also concluded that,
other things being equal, nuclear ships would be better than either.
Insurance, port permissions... plus finding trained personnel.
"Other things being equal"
No need for 'trained personnel' to operate them beyond a simple set of rules. My god if such were the way of the world there would be no one driving on America's roads at all
More than likely they would have 'user serviceable parts' inside either. Sealed for life non refuellable small reactors that you simply crane out
if they go wrong or run low on fuel and return to manufacturers fore an exchange unit
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
Even if we could physically stop them, we won't because we are too--
dependant upon what they provide for us. Then they'll have the
advanced chip production in their control as well. Even more power
over everyone.
Good luck keeping up them in technolgy, or anything else, then!
On 10/10/2026 8:23 am, chrisv wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in
the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
On 2026-10-21 13:28, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/10/2026 8:23 am, chrisv wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in
the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
No, that was Hongkong.
rbowman <[email protected]>wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2026 18:17:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
More and more houses also have solar panels.
That works? Amsterdam is 5 degrees north of where I am and daylight
here is shrinking fast.
Seems so, I have a 80 W panel in a window upstairs, could keep my
laptop battery full if needed.
In the street: left neighbor has big solar panels installed across
the road several houses have those. They feed back into the
power-net, There is some political turmoil now as normally people
with panels would get money back from their electricity bills for the
amount they were feeding back, but that feedback money is ever
decreasing:
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-energy-use-net-metering-end-nears
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>wrote:
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells
(all sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
it is good to have petrol or diesel fueled emergency vehicles.
Electricity sources like windmills, solar panels, water, nuclear,--
oil, coal, gas, etc etc, that 'diversity' makes us less vulnerable,
Here in the Netherlands the electric grid is now so 'full' that
there are cases where new connections to the grid are not possible: https://nltimes.nl/2026/09/20/overloaded-dutch-power-grid-delays-new-homes-raising-costs-wait-times
Taking out the electric grid either by solar storms, AI or humans
hacking it, or in war with bombs also needs backups, local ones at
that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Event
I have sixteen panels (4kW)($4,500) up on my roof (for about five years)
and a 5kW Battery ($4,500 again) as well (for a couple of years).
Still, once my battery is full, the electricity gets feed into the
System and I get $0.01 (yes, one cent) for ever kWh I feed into the
System .... for which my next door neighbour, maybe, might have to pay
$0.40 per kWh.
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-energy-use-net-metering-end-nearsAt this stage, as soon as I loose Mains, I'm without power .... even if
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
the Battery is full! ;-(
On 2026-10-05, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
I've swallowed medical radioactivity, had more x rays and CT scans than
I can remember
viz:
"Radioactive tracers: Doctors attach a radioactive isotope to a chemical
compound to form a radiopharmaceutical, which patients swallow or
receive via injection.
PET and SPECT scans: Scanners detect the gamma rays or radiation emitted
by the tracer inside the body to create 3D images of internal organs.
Identifying hot and cold spots: Diseased or cancerous tissues absorb
tracers differently than healthy tissue, revealing tumors or poor blood
flow.
Common isotopes: Technetium-99m is widely used for heart, bone, and
brain scans, while Iodine isotopes assess thyroid health"
After I had my bone scan they gave me a card that I could show
customs agents or others with scanners to show that their detectors
were going off due to the Technetium-99 they had shot into me.
When my PSA levels started climbing again seven years after my
prostatectomy, I spent 33 sessions in a linear accelerator that
pumped about a sievert into me (which didn't hurt the cancer cells
as much as we had hoped, alas). For a PSMA PET scan I got shot
full of a radioisotope (I forget which one but it had a half-life
short enough that the cyclotron that made it was next door) before
I went through a scanner donut about three times as thick as your
typical scanner. (Fortunately I don't get claustrophobia - I think
I fell asleep inside the machine.) There was at least one other
instance where I got my heart cranked right up on a treadmill while
getting shot up with a radioisotope to check my heart function.
Throw in various other things like dental X-rays, etc.
So I don't worry too much about radiation; I'm doing pretty
well - aside from my prostate cancer cells, and they can
go to hell for all I care.
On 21/10/2026 9:01 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 10:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:Yes, the Australian Government are in the process of purchasing these
They are merely testing them out. They have also concluded that,
other things being equal, nuclear ships would be better than either.
Insurance, port permissions... plus finding trained personnel.
"Other things being equal"
No need for 'trained personnel' to operate them beyond a simple set of
rules. My god if such were the way of the world there would be no one
driving on America's roads at all
More than likely they would have 'user serviceable parts' inside
either. Sealed for life non refuellable small reactors that you simply
crane out if they go wrong or run low on fuel and return to
manufacturers fore an exchange unit
types of Submarines from U.S. of A. and Britain over the next thirty
years or so.
Pull into Port, extract the reactor unit and stick a new reactor unit
in. Good to Go.
I don't know what 'they' will do with the used reactor Units. Dump/Recycle/Something.
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is thatThere is a more compelling reason, and that is that an inverter designed
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
On 2026-10-21 13:28, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/10/2026 8:23 am, chrisv wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in
the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
No, that was Hongkong.
On 6/10/2026 2:52 pm, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
So I don't worry too much about radiation; I'm doing prettyDo you glow in the dark, yet?? ;-P
well - aside from my prostate cancer cells, and they can
go to hell for all I care.
On 21/10/2026 13:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is thatThere is a more compelling reason, and that is that an inverter designed
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a
section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
to follow and synchronise to an existing mains frequency is a different animal to one that can self generate it.
So a unit that can do both is (even) more expensive
Daniel70 <[email protected]>wrote:
On 7/10/2026 5:55 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]>wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2026 18:17:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
More and more houses also have solar panels.
That works? Amsterdam is 5 degrees north of where I am and daylight
here is shrinking fast.
Seems so, I have a 80 W panel in a window upstairs, could keep my
laptop battery full if needed.
In the street: left neighbor has big solar panels installed across
the road several houses have those. They feed back into the
power-net, There is some political turmoil now as normally people
with panels would get money back from their electricity bills for the
amount they were feeding back, but that feedback money is ever
decreasing:
I have sixteen panels (4kW)($4,500) up on my roof (for about five years)
and a 5kW Battery ($4,500 again) as well (for a couple of years).
Still, once my battery is full, the electricity gets feed into the
System and I get $0.01 (yes, one cent) for ever kWh I feed into the
System .... for which my next door neighbour, maybe, might have to pay
$0.40 per kWh.
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-energy-use-net-metering-end-nearsAt this stage, as soon as I loose Mains, I'm without power .... even if
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
the Battery is full! ;-(
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>wrote:
On 21/10/2026 13:41, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 2:52 pm, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
So I don't worry too much about radiation; I'm doing prettyDo you glow in the dark, yet?? ;-P
well - aside from my prostate cancer cells, and they can
go to hell for all I care.
Course not. Only radium does that, apart from Cherenkov radiation
IIRC medical radiation is about as much as we receive from 'natural' >sources.
On 6/10/2026 5:57 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>wrote:
<Snip>
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells (all sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
I don't know if it's usual but, here in Australia, if you have an
Electric Car, and the Mains power to your house fails, you can run your House, for some time, off your Car Battery.
I'm guessing only for a couple of hours, maybe!!
it is good to have petrol or diesel fueled emergency vehicles.
Yeap, gives certainty!!
On 2026/10/21 13:25:18, Daniel70 wrote:
[]
I have sixteen panels (4kW)($4,500) up on my roof (for about five years)
and a 5kW Battery ($4,500 again) as well (for a couple of years).
Still, once my battery is full, the electricity gets feed into the
System and I get $0.01 (yes, one cent) for ever kWh I feed into the
System .... for which my next door neighbour, maybe, might have to pay
$0.40 per kWh.
Nice for the power company!
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is that
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-energy-use-net-metering-end-nearsAt this stage, as soon as I loose Mains, I'm without power .... even if
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
the Battery is full! ;-(
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
On 21/10/2026 10:35 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-21 13:28, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/10/2026 8:23 am, chrisv wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in >>> the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
No, that was Hongkong.
Yeap, but I thought there was a similar deal with Taiwan. ;-(
On 21/10/2026 13:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is thatThere is a more compelling reason, and that is that an inverter designed
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a
section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
to follow and synchronise to an existing mains frequency is a different animal to one that can self generate it.
So a unit that can do both is (even) more expensive
On 6/10/2026 5:57 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>wrote:
<Snip>
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells (all
sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
I don't know if it's usual but, here in Australia, if you have an
Electric Car, and the Mains power to your house fails, you can run your House, for some time, off your Car Battery.
I'm guessing only for a couple of hours, maybe!!
(Here we are, thirty-odd years later, and that second Passport hasn't
been used a second time, either!! ;-( )
_nkw=tritium+light&_sacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>wrote:
On 21/10/2026 13:41, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 2:52 pm, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
So I don't worry too much about radiation; I'm doing pretty well -Do you glow in the dark, yet?? ;-P
aside from my prostate cancer cells, and they can go to hell for all
I care.
Course not. Only radium does that, apart from Cherenkov radiation IIRC >>medical radiation is about as much as we receive from 'natural'
sources.
Tritium lights are common:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/tritium_light_close_img_3249.jpg
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in >>> the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
No, that was Hongkong.
Yeap, but I thought there was a similar deal with Taiwan. ;-(
No, Taiwan is not a colony, so no one to negotiate such a deal. It was
some war between factions. The imperials lost and fled to that island.
The communists won and took all China, except that island. Some
countries insisted, for a limited time, that the real China was Taiwan
(fuck the communists) and fed them millions of weapons, till they had to swap around and accept that the real China are the communists.
The communists are very patient about it.
On 2026-10-21 14:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/21 13:25:18, Daniel70 wrote:
[]
I have sixteen panels (4kW)($4,500) up on my roof (for about five years) >>> and a 5kW Battery ($4,500 again) as well (for a couple of years).
Still, once my battery is full, the electricity gets feed into the
System and I get $0.01 (yes, one cent) for ever kWh I feed into the
System .... for which my next door neighbour, maybe, might have to pay
$0.40 per kWh.
Nice for the power company!
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is that
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-At this stage, as soon as I loose Mains, I'm without power .... even if
energy-use-net-metering-end-nears
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
the Battery is full! ;-(
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a
section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
You can install such a switch (automatic), and then the battery backed system will work during blackouts. The switch has to be certified, of course.
Think that not only you would give the workers a shock, but your system would try to feed electricity to all your neighbours.
On 2026-10-21 14:37, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 5:57 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>wrote:
<Snip>
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells (all >>>>> sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
I don't know if it's usual but, here in Australia, if you have an
Electric Car, and the Mains power to your house fails, you can run your
House, for some time, off your Car Battery.
I'm guessing only for a couple of hours, maybe!!
Days!
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, Taiwan is not a colony, so no one to negotiate such a deal. It was
some war between factions. The imperials lost and fled to that island.
The communists won and took all China, except that island. Some
countries insisted, for a limited time, that the real China was Taiwan
(fuck the communists) and fed them millions of weapons, till they had
to swap around and accept that the real China are the communists.
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-21 14:37, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 5:57 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>wrote:
<Snip>
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells
(all sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
I don't know if it's usual but, here in Australia, if you have an
Electric Car, and the Mains power to your house fails, you can run your
House, for some time, off your Car Battery.
I'm guessing only for a couple of hours, maybe!!
Days!
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
On 2026-10-22 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, Taiwan is not a colony, so no one to negotiate such a deal. It
was some war between factions. The imperials lost and fled to that
island. The communists won and took all China, except that island.
Some countries insisted, for a limited time, that the real China was
Taiwan (fuck the communists) and fed them millions of weapons, till
they had to swap around and accept that the real China are the
communists.
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
Initially. They are patiently getting them. They will be there, eventually.
We can give up Taiwan gracefully, or not. Our loss.
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
On 2026/10/22 10:7:59, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
For a pure electric, or a _sensible_ hybrid (such as a plug-in), yes.
Some hybrids only have a piddling little battery - just enough to take
the energy from a regenerative-braking slowdown, or a few such. Rather
like that used in Formula 1, I believe.
"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
On 2026/10/22 10:7:59, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
For a pure electric, or a _sensible_ hybrid (such as a plug-in), yes.
Some hybrids only have a piddling little battery - just enough to take
the energy from a regenerative-braking slowdown, or a few such. Rather
like that used in Formula 1, I believe.
plug-in hybrids tend to have tens of miles on battery, e.g. mine
generally gets about 44 miles from the 13.6 kWh battery
The non-plugin version, as you say, might only have a few hundred metres
of hybrid range, from its 1.3 kWh battery, all it's doing is smoothing
out energy between one braking cycle and the next acceleration cycle.
On 2026-10-22 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, Taiwan is not a colony, so no one to negotiate such a deal. It
was some war between factions. The imperials lost and fled to that
island. The communists won and took all China, except that island.
Some countries insisted, for a limited time, that the real China was
Taiwan (fuck the communists) and fed them millions of weapons, till
they had to swap around and accept that the real China are the
communists.
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
Initially. They are patiently getting them. They will be there, eventually.
We can give up Taiwan gracefully, or not. Our loss.
Some electric cars have motors about ten times the power of a gasoline
car, I don't understand why. [...] After a chat with ChatGPT, I
understood. Huge powers are easier with electric motors than with
gasoline motor, so there is a market for them. High acceleration better
than a sport car with a family vehicle appearance, but possibly for
short times (battery and inverter heat constrains, mainly; at the end, weight).
I don't think a non-plugin should have_any_ of the tax
advantages, since it's basically a fuel vehicle: the only way to put
energy into it is at the pump. (I don't know if the tax regime_has_
changed, but I was initially highly unimpressed that such vehicles were treated beneficially in any way - tax or ULEZ.)
They_are_ a good idea for buses, and arguably delivery vans or anything
else used entirely around town. (A bus my company was involved with did indeed have a battery that gave it, I think, about 100 yards - but did
make a considerable difference; on some London route, it got 8 miles per gallon. which sounds poor, until you hear that the Diesel-only on that
route got 4.7.)
Andy Burns wrote:It's a PHEV not an EV, it's got over 400 miles worth of petrol sloshing
mine generally gets about 44 miles from the 13.6 kWh battery
Ah, I wasn't aware that even some plug-in ones had only limited range.
I don't think a non-plugin should haveany of the tax
advantages, since it's basically a fuel vehicle: the only way to put
energy into it is at the pump.
On 2026/10/22 14:29:51, Andy Burns wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
On 2026/10/22 10:7:59, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
For a pure electric, or a _sensible_ hybrid (such as a plug-in), yes.
Some hybrids only have a piddling little battery - just enough to take
the energy from a regenerative-braking slowdown, or a few such. Rather
like that used in Formula 1, I believe.
plug-in hybrids tend to have tens of miles on battery, e.g. mine
generally gets about 44 miles from the 13.6 kWh battery
Ah, I wasn't aware that even some plug-in ones had only limited range.
--Indeed. I don't think a non-plugin should have _any_ of the tax
The non-plugin version, as you say, might only have a few hundred metres
of hybrid range, from its 1.3 kWh battery, all it's doing is smoothing
out energy between one braking cycle and the next acceleration cycle.
advantages, since it's basically a fuel vehicle: the only way to put
energy into it is at the pump. (I don't know if the tax regime _has_
changed, but I was initially highly unimpressed that such vehicles were treated beneficially in any way - tax or ULEZ.)
They _are_ a good idea for buses, and arguably delivery vans or anything
else used entirely around town. (A bus my company was involved with did indeed have a battery that gave it, I think, about 100 yards - but did
make a considerable difference; on some London route, it got 8 miles per gallon. which sounds poor, until you hear that the Diesel-only on that
route got 4.7.)
"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:It's a PHEV not an EV, it's got over 400 miles worth of petrol sloshing about in it too :-)
mine generally gets about 44 miles from the 13.6 kWh battery
Ah, I wasn't aware that even some plug-in ones had only limited range.
and although 100 miles of battery range with 300 miles of petrol range
might occasionally be handy, I don't mind as it is ...
If I'm on a long journey I'll tend to do the first stint to reach the motorway on battery, then switch to petrol for the long stretch, and
then back to battery for the local roads at the other end. It does
pretty well on petrol, easy to get 60-65 mpg which no other car I've
owned ever came close to.
I can't actually force it to use petrol or electric, just give it strong hints, the car actually decides.
Andy Burns wrote:
I can't actually force it to use petrol or electric, just give it
strong hints, the car actually decides.
I though some cars could be forced into electric mode when entering
certain city areas that are limited to EVs.
Yes. But 'Aryan' developed a special meaning mid 20th century.
being used to refer to a mythical prototypical white European race of inherently superior qualities
Or, as we later thought of it, Germans being the usual arrogant
arseholes...
When people spoke of "Indo-European", I thought the 'Indo' was from a
little further east than India, .... like "Indonesia".
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>
wrote in news:11atd8d$3bqcl$[email protected]:
Yes. But 'Aryan' developed a special meaning mid 20th century.
being used to refer to a mythical prototypical white European race of
inherently superior qualities
Or, as we later thought of it, Germans being the usual arrogant
arseholes...
Can I just point out that belief in crackpot ideologies isn't a
national trait of Germans, or any other nation.
On 23/10/2026 10:38, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d>Actually, they are exactly that.
wrote in news:11atd8d$3bqcl$[email protected]:
Yes. But 'Aryan' developed a special meaning mid 20th century.
being used to refer to a mythical prototypical white European race of
inherently superior qualities
Or, as we later thought of it, Germans being the usual arrogant
arseholes...
Can I just point out that belief in crackpot ideologies isn't a
national trait of Germans, or any other nation.
Look at Russia at the moment
Or the USA. Or Iran.
On 10/22/26 06:39, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-22 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
Initially. They are patiently getting them. They will be there, eventually. >>
We can give up Taiwan gracefully, or not. Our loss.
Gee ... so dismal !
There are still several ways we can make an
take-over of Taiwan "too painful" for Xi.
It's not ALL a military equation.
c186282 wrote:
On 10/22/26 06:39, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-22 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
Initially. They are patiently getting them. They will be there, eventually. >>>
We can give up Taiwan gracefully, or not. Our loss.
It would be stupid to fight a conventional war over it. Too
expensive, too damaging to Taiwan, too damaging to world markets.
We would lose it anyway. It's right off their shore!
Gee ... so dismal !
There are still several ways we can make an
take-over of Taiwan "too painful" for Xi.
Of course, or they would take it right now. The backlash from their customers (the USA and Europe) would be huge, and they can't afford
that, yet.
It's not ALL a military equation.
It's an economic equation, and we are losing that battle. Europe is
getting creamed.
On 10/23/26 16:47, chrisv wrote:
c186282 wrote:
On 10/22/26 06:39, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-22 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
Initially. They are patiently getting them. They will be there,
eventually.
We can give up Taiwan gracefully, or not. Our loss.
It would be stupid to fight a conventional war over it. Too
expensive, too damaging to Taiwan, too damaging to world markets.
We would lose it anyway. It's right off their shore!
Gee ... so dismal !
There are still several ways we can make an
take-over of Taiwan "too painful" for Xi.
Of course, or they would take it right now. The backlash from their
customers (the USA and Europe) would be huge, and they can't afford
that, yet.
It's not ALL a military equation.
It's an economic equation, and we are losing that battle. Europe is
getting creamed.
Europe is LOST already. They did it to themselves.
"Oh, we feel SO GUILTY for opposing the Islamists !"
No hope. LET them die ...--
c186282 wrote:
On 10/22/26 06:39, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-22 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
Initially. They are patiently getting them. They will be there, eventually. >>>
We can give up Taiwan gracefully, or not. Our loss.
It would be stupid to fight a conventional war over it. Too
expensive, too damaging to Taiwan, too damaging to world markets.
We would lose it anyway. It's right off their shore!
Gee ... so dismal !
There are still several ways we can make an
take-over of Taiwan "too painful" for Xi.
Of course, or they would take it right now. The backlash from their customers (the USA and Europe) would be huge, and they can't afford
that, yet.
It's not ALL a military equation.
It's an economic equation, and we are losing that battle. Europe is
getting creamed.
As for Taiwan ... the best tact still is to make
it "too expensive" for Xi. Several tacts there.
On 2026/10/24 8:33:6, c186282 wrote:
[]
As for Taiwan ... the best tact still is to make
it "too expensive" for Xi. Several tacts there.
Regardless of what I think of the various subjects here ... the word
you are looking for here is not "tact". What it is, I'll let you find
out. []
On 2026/10/24 8:33:6, c186282 wrote:
[]
As for Taiwan ... the best tact still is to make it "too expensive"
for Xi. Several tacts there.
Regardless of what I think of the various subjects here ... the word you
are looking for here is not "tact". What it is, I'll let you find out.
[]
On Sat, 24 Oct 2026 20:30:20 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/24 8:33:6, c186282 wrote:
[]
As for Taiwan ... the best tact still is to make it "too expensive"
for Xi. Several tacts there.
Regardless of what I think of the various subjects here ... the word you
are looking for here is not "tact". What it is, I'll let you find out.
[]
Possibly tactic although strategy might apply. First you need the long
term plan then you define the actions necessary to reach the goal.
On 2026-10-25, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2026 20:30:20 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/24 8:33:6, c186282 wrote:
[]
As for Taiwan ... the best tact still is to make it "too expensive" >>>> for Xi. Several tacts there.
Regardless of what I think of the various subjects here ... the word you >>> are looking for here is not "tact". What it is, I'll let you find out.
[]
Possibly tactic although strategy might apply. First you need the long
term plan then you define the actions necessary to reach the goal.
"Tactics win the battle, strategy wins the war."
On Oct 24, 2026 at 12:30 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote in 11bj10d$30kcp$[email protected]:
On 2026/10/24 8:33:6, c186282 wrote:
[]
As for Taiwan ... the best tact still is to make
it "too expensive" for Xi. Several tacts there.
Regardless of what I think of the various subjects here ... the word
you are looking for here is not "tact". What it is, I'll let you find
out. []
I think he meant "tact".
On 25/10/2026 8:03 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 24, 2026 at 12:30 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote inI was wondering if he meant those tiny nails that used to be used in
11bj10d$30kcp$[email protected]:
On 2026/10/24 8:33:6, c186282 wrote:
[]
As for Taiwan ... the best tact still is to make
it "too expensive" for Xi. Several tacts there.
Regardless of what I think of the various subjects here ... the word
you are looking for here is not "tact". What it is, I'll let you
find out. []
I think he meant "tact".
shoes etc. "tac" maybe.
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