On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 7:37 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 7:23 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 6:58 p.m., Alan wrote:
APPLE is a COMPANY.
I'd like to add to that. Apple is a company that is interested in
selling hardware. To do that, they invest as much as they can into
developing an experience that is pleasing and intuitive to current
and potential customers. iOS, tvOS, watchOS and MacOS are the
result of that, and they've done such a good job in selling
hardware that the company is often at the peak of the most valuable >>>>> companies on the planet. At no point did the customers or the
administration of said company think about whether they are UNIX or >>>>> not. Whether they are or aren't will do absolutely nothing to sell
the hardware much like it has done nothing to sell the hardware of
any other company that got certification. While the UNIX name has
value to obese, neck- bearded men of old age who fondly remember
using the operating system on mainframes in the 1960s, absolutely
_no one_ today gives a piece of excrement about it today. If Apple
uses it to produce a stable, stellar experience, so be it; if it
had managed to do the same without UNIX, so be it too.
All that matters, now, though, is what they're willing to do to try
to expand their territory. The Neo is one thing. But to really
take on MS, they'll need to feed a diverse field of consumers.
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great
job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct
approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to
spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting
Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 7:37 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 7:23 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 6:58 p.m., Alan wrote:
APPLE is a COMPANY.
I'd like to add to that. Apple is a company that is interested in
selling hardware. To do that, they invest as much as they can into
developing an experience that is pleasing and intuitive to current
and potential customers. iOS, tvOS, watchOS and MacOS are the result
of that, and they've done such a good job in selling hardware that
the company is often at the peak of the most valuable companies on
the planet. At no point did the customers or the administration of
said company think about whether they are UNIX or not. Whether they
are or aren't will do absolutely nothing to sell the hardware much
like it has done nothing to sell the hardware of any other company
that got certification. While the UNIX name has value to obese,
neck- bearded men of old age who fondly remember using the operating
system on mainframes in the 1960s, absolutely _no one_ today gives a
piece of excrement about it today. If Apple uses it to produce a
stable, stellar experience, so be it; if it had managed to do the
same without UNIX, so be it too.
All that matters, now, though, is what they're willing to do to try
to expand their territory. The Neo is one thing. But to really take >>> on MS, they'll need to feed a diverse field of consumers.
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great
job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct
approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to spend
way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting
Windows emulation, yeah.
On 2026-10-13 2:21 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 7:37 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 7:23 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 6:58 p.m., Alan wrote:
APPLE is a COMPANY.
I'd like to add to that. Apple is a company that is interested in
selling hardware. To do that, they invest as much as they can into
developing an experience that is pleasing and intuitive to current
and potential customers. iOS, tvOS, watchOS and MacOS are the
result of that, and they've done such a good job in selling
hardware that the company is often at the peak of the most valuable >>>>> companies on the planet. At no point did the customers or the
administration of said company think about whether they are UNIX or >>>>> not. Whether they are or aren't will do absolutely nothing to sell
the hardware much like it has done nothing to sell the hardware of
any other company that got certification. While the UNIX name has
value to obese, neck- bearded men of old age who fondly remember
using the operating system on mainframes in the 1960s, absolutely
_no one_ today gives a piece of excrement about it today. If Apple
uses it to produce a stable, stellar experience, so be it; if it
had managed to do the same without UNIX, so be it too.
All that matters, now, though, is what they're willing to do to try
to expand their territory. The Neo is one thing. But to really
take on MS, they'll need to feed a diverse field of consumers.
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great
job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct
approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to
spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting
Windows emulation, yeah.
They already support Windows emulation through virtualization, Parallels
and Crossover. What else do you need?
On 10/13/2026 2:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 7:37 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 7:23 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 6:58 p.m., Alan wrote:
APPLE is a COMPANY.
I'd like to add to that. Apple is a company that is interested in >>>>>> selling hardware. To do that, they invest as much as they can into >>>>>> developing an experience that is pleasing and intuitive to current >>>>>> and potential customers. iOS, tvOS, watchOS and MacOS are the
result of that, and they've done such a good job in selling
hardware that the company is often at the peak of the most
valuable companies on the planet. At no point did the customers or >>>>>> the administration of said company think about whether they are
UNIX or not. Whether they are or aren't will do absolutely nothing >>>>>> to sell the hardware much like it has done nothing to sell the
hardware of any other company that got certification. While the
UNIX name has value to obese, neck- bearded men of old age who
fondly remember using the operating system on mainframes in the
1960s, absolutely _no one_ today gives a piece of excrement about >>>>>> it today. If Apple uses it to produce a stable, stellar
experience, so be it; if it had managed to do the same without
UNIX, so be it too.
All that matters, now, though, is what they're willing to do to try >>>>> to expand their territory. The Neo is one thing. But to really
take on MS, they'll need to feed a diverse field of consumers.
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great
job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct
approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to
spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting
Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
Stop thinking so linearly, this is a fundamental chance for Apple to
destroy Microsoft, but it would take an effort that not everyone can bring. I'll be honest, I don't like Apple's shit, it won't work on me,
but it could nevertheless make *great* inroads into Microsoft territory, given the trends already seen and the potential.
On 10/13/2026 5:09 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-13 2:21 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 7:37 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 7:23 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 6:58 p.m., Alan wrote:
APPLE is a COMPANY.
I'd like to add to that. Apple is a company that is interested in >>>>>> selling hardware. To do that, they invest as much as they can into >>>>>> developing an experience that is pleasing and intuitive to current >>>>>> and potential customers. iOS, tvOS, watchOS and MacOS are the
result of that, and they've done such a good job in selling
hardware that the company is often at the peak of the most
valuable companies on the planet. At no point did the customers or >>>>>> the administration of said company think about whether they are
UNIX or not. Whether they are or aren't will do absolutely nothing >>>>>> to sell the hardware much like it has done nothing to sell the
hardware of any other company that got certification. While the
UNIX name has value to obese, neck- bearded men of old age who
fondly remember using the operating system on mainframes in the
1960s, absolutely _no one_ today gives a piece of excrement about >>>>>> it today. If Apple uses it to produce a stable, stellar
experience, so be it; if it had managed to do the same without
UNIX, so be it too.
All that matters, now, though, is what they're willing to do to try >>>>> to expand their territory. The Neo is one thing. But to really
take on MS, they'll need to feed a diverse field of consumers.
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great
job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct
approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to
spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting
Windows emulation, yeah.
They already support Windows emulation through virtualization,
Parallels and Crossover. What else do you need?
Mac would need to address it instead of emulating it.
On 10/13/2026 5:09 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:Macs don't need to emulate Windows software internally because there is
On 2026-10-13 2:21 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 7:37 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 7:23 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 6:58 p.m., Alan wrote:
APPLE is a COMPANY.
I'd like to add to that. Apple is a company that is interested in >>>>>> selling hardware. To do that, they invest as much as they can into >>>>>> developing an experience that is pleasing and intuitive to current >>>>>> and potential customers. iOS, tvOS, watchOS and MacOS are the
result of that, and they've done such a good job in selling
hardware that the company is often at the peak of the most
valuable companies on the planet. At no point did the customers or >>>>>> the administration of said company think about whether they are
UNIX or not. Whether they are or aren't will do absolutely nothing >>>>>> to sell the hardware much like it has done nothing to sell the
hardware of any other company that got certification. While the
UNIX name has value to obese, neck- bearded men of old age who
fondly remember using the operating system on mainframes in the
1960s, absolutely _no one_ today gives a piece of excrement about >>>>>> it today. If Apple uses it to produce a stable, stellar
experience, so be it; if it had managed to do the same without
UNIX, so be it too.
All that matters, now, though, is what they're willing to do to try >>>>> to expand their territory. The Neo is one thing. But to really
take on MS, they'll need to feed a diverse field of consumers.
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great
job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct
approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to
spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting
Windows emulation, yeah.
They already support Windows emulation through virtualization,
Parallels and Crossover. What else do you need?
Mac would need to address it instead of emulating it.
On 2026-10-13 13:22, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 2:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great >>>>> job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct
approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to
spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting
Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
Stop thinking so linearly, this is a fundamental chance for Apple to
destroy Microsoft, but it would take an effort that not everyone can
bring. I'll be honest, I don't like Apple's shit, it won't work on
me, but it could nevertheless make *great* inroads into Microsoft
territory, given the trends already seen and the potential.
Why didn't you even TRY to answer the things I asked about?
On 2026-10-13 14:13, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 5:09 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-13 2:21 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great >>>>> job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct
approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to
spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting
Windows emulation, yeah.
They already support Windows emulation through virtualization,
Parallels and Crossover. What else do you need?
Mac would need to address it instead of emulating it.
Why? How would that even work?
Fact: you can run Windows software on your Mac.
Fact: you can run Intel-based Windows software on your Mac.
Fact: you can do so in a cohesive environment, rather than having a
Window where all your Windows software runs.
Why would APPLE (not "Mac") need to do anything more?
What more COULD be done?
On 2026-10-13 14:13, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 5:09 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-13 2:21 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 7:37 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 7:23 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-12 6:58 p.m., Alan wrote:
APPLE is a COMPANY.
I'd like to add to that. Apple is a company that is interested in selling hardware. To do that, they invest as much as they can into developing an experience that is pleasing and intuitive to current and potential customers. iOS, tvOS, watchOS and MacOS are the result of that, and they've done such a good job in selling hardware that the company is often at the peak of the most valuable companies on the planet. At no point did the customers or the administration of said company think about whether they are UNIX or not. Whether they are or aren't will do absolutely nothing to sell the hardware much like it has done nothing to sell the hardware of any other company that got certification. While the UNIX name has value to obese, neck- bearded men of old age who fondly remember using the operating system on mainframes in the 1960s, absolutely _no one_ today gives a piece of excrement about it today. If Apple uses it to produce a stable, stellar experience, so be it; if it had managed to do the same without UNIX, so be it too.
All that matters, now, though, is what they're willing to do to try to expand their territory. The Neo is one thing. But to really take on MS, they'll need to feed a diverse field of consumers.
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
They already support Windows emulation through virtualization, Parallels and Crossover. What else do you need?
Mac would need to address it instead of emulating it.
Why? How would that even work?
Fact: you can run Windows software on your Mac.
Fact: you can run Intel-based Windows software on your Mac.
Fact: you can do so in a cohesive environment, rather than having a Window where all your Windows software runs.
Why would APPLE (not "Mac") need to do anything more?
What more COULD be done?
On 10/13/2026 5:32 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 13:22, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 2:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a
great job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a
direct approach and is likely to block those people, who are
willing to spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as
supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
Stop thinking so linearly, this is a fundamental chance for Apple to
destroy Microsoft, but it would take an effort that not everyone can
bring. I'll be honest, I don't like Apple's shit, it won't work on
me, but it could nevertheless make *great* inroads into Microsoft
territory, given the trends already seen and the potential.
Why didn't you even TRY to answer the things I asked about?
Sorry. I meant that macOS would need to be a more robust environmentApple has already provided developers with a robust environment for
for gaming, to attract development along with the rise in consumers
using the OS. Apple could utilize existing Windows emulation tools, it
is true.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting
Windows emulation, yeah.
They already support Windows emulation through virtualization,
Parallels and Crossover. What else do you need?
Mac would need to address it instead of emulating it.
Macs don't need to emulate Windows software internally because there is
tons of software to do so from third-parties should the need arise.
Apple only needed to emulate the existing library of Mac software, for
the x86 platform, which they did admirably. Microsoft tried to do it as
well as Apple did and failed miserably as they always do. That's why the transition from 68xxx to PowerPC went well (60-70% native speed under emulation), as did the transitions from PowerPC to Intel and then Intel
to Apple silicon. Has it occurred to you that Apple has its own library
and doesn't need Microsoft's software?
On 10/13/2026 7:38 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
They already support Windows emulation through virtualization, Parallels and Crossover. What else do you need?
Mac would need to address it instead of emulating it.
Macs don't need to emulate Windows software internally because there is tons of software to do so from third-parties should the need arise. Apple only needed to emulate the existing library of Mac software, for the x86 platform, which they did admirably. Microsoft tried to do it as well as Apple did and failed miserably as they always do. That's why the transition from 68xxx to PowerPC went well (60-70% native speed under emulation), as did the transitions from PowerPC to Intel and then Intel to Apple silicon. Has it occurred to you that Apple has its own library and doesn't need Microsoft's software?
I agree that Windows on ARM wasn't as smooth as macOS in transitioning from x86 - but you have to think about why that would be. Mac ecosystem is simply a different animal, for more than one reason. But that's why I think macOS has the potential to be a more dominant platform, Microsoft's platform frankly is going to split in direction, people like me will cling to Windows 11, but others will actually appreciate the newfangled interface to come, Linux always offers an alternative but I see the Mac as having the capacity to expand as a proprietary product, if Apple wants to take advantage of the opportunity.
--
Joel W. Crump
macOS would need to be a more robust environment
for gaming, to attract development along with the rise in consumers
using the OS. Apple could utilize existing Windows emulation tools,
it is true.
Apple has already provided developers with a robust environment for
gaming. That's why games like Death Stranding and Resident Evil Village
were released for the Mac and work great even on base hardware. Nevertheless, much like developers in the 80s developed for the Atari
520ST despite the fact that better Atari hardware was already available, today's developers go where the biggest audience is.
On 10/13/2026 5:32 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 13:22, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 2:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects
making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a
great job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a
direct approach and is likely to block those people, who are
willing to spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as
supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
Stop thinking so linearly, this is a fundamental chance for Apple to
destroy Microsoft, but it would take an effort that not everyone can
bring. I'll be honest, I don't like Apple's shit, it won't work on
me, but it could nevertheless make *great* inroads into Microsoft
territory, given the trends already seen and the potential.
Why didn't you even TRY to answer the things I asked about?
Sorry. I meant that macOS would need to be a more robust environment
for gaming, to attract development along with the rise in consumers
using the OS. Apple could utilize existing Windows emulation tools, it
is true.
On 2026-10-14 07:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 5:32 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 13:22, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 2:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects >>>>>>> making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a
great job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a >>>>>>> direct approach and is likely to block those people, who are
willing to spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as
supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
Stop thinking so linearly, this is a fundamental chance for Apple to
destroy Microsoft, but it would take an effort that not everyone can
bring. I'll be honest, I don't like Apple's shit, it won't work on
me, but it could nevertheless make *great* inroads into Microsoft
territory, given the trends already seen and the potential.
Why didn't you even TRY to answer the things I asked about?
Sorry. I meant that macOS would need to be a more robust environment
for gaming, to attract development along with the rise in consumers
using the OS. Apple could utilize existing Windows emulation tools,
it is true.
So by "native gaming subsystem" you meant nothing at all.
Got it.
On 10/14/2026 1:26 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-14 07:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 5:32 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 13:22, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 2:25 PM, Alan wrote:Why didn't you even TRY to answer the things I asked about?
On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects >>>>>>>> making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a >>>>>>>> great job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a >>>>>>>> direct approach and is likely to block those people, who are
willing to spend way more, from buying a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as
supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
Stop thinking so linearly, this is a fundamental chance for Apple
to destroy Microsoft, but it would take an effort that not everyone >>>>> can bring. I'll be honest, I don't like Apple's shit, it won't
work on me, but it could nevertheless make *great* inroads into
Microsoft territory, given the trends already seen and the potential. >>>>
Sorry. I meant that macOS would need to be a more robust environment
for gaming, to attract development along with the rise in consumers
using the OS. Apple could utilize existing Windows emulation tools,
it is true.
So by "native gaming subsystem" you meant nothing at all.
Got it.
I think it will require improvement, but it sounds like there's more of
one than I gave them credit for.
On 2026-10-14 10:37, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/14/2026 1:26 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-14 07:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 5:32 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 13:22, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 2:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are
projects making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover >>>>>>>>> does a great job playing games as well. However, it's
definitely not a direct approach and is likely to block those >>>>>>>>> people, who are willing to spend way more, from buying a Mac. >>>>>>>>
supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
Stop thinking so linearly, this is a fundamental chance for Apple >>>>>> to destroy Microsoft, but it would take an effort that not
everyone can bring. I'll be honest, I don't like Apple's shit, it >>>>>> won't work on me, but it could nevertheless make *great* inroads
into Microsoft territory, given the trends already seen and the
potential.
Why didn't you even TRY to answer the things I asked about?
Sorry. I meant that macOS would need to be a more robust
environment for gaming, to attract development along with the rise
in consumers using the OS. Apple could utilize existing Windows
emulation tools, it is true.
So by "native gaming subsystem" you meant nothing at all.
Got it.
I think it will require improvement, but it sounds like there's more
of one than I gave them credit for.
It seems to me like you (again) posted something about which you had
ZERO actual knowledge.
On 10/13/2026 7:38 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as
supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
They already support Windows emulation through virtualization,
Parallels and Crossover. What else do you need?
Mac would need to address it instead of emulating it.
Macs don't need to emulate Windows software internally because there
is tons of software to do so from third-parties should the need arise.
Apple only needed to emulate the existing library of Mac software, for
the x86 platform, which they did admirably. Microsoft tried to do it
as well as Apple did and failed miserably as they always do. That's
why the transition from 68xxx to PowerPC went well (60-70% native
speed under emulation), as did the transitions from PowerPC to Intel
and then Intel to Apple silicon. Has it occurred to you that Apple has
its own library and doesn't need Microsoft's software?
I agree that Windows on ARM wasn't as smooth as macOS in transitioning
from x86 - but you have to think about why that would be. Mac ecosystem
is simply a different animal, for more than one reason. But that's why
I think macOS has the potential to be a more dominant platform,
Microsoft's platform frankly is going to split in direction, people like
me will cling to Windows 11, but others will actually appreciate the newfangled interface to come, Linux always offers an alternative but I
see the Mac as having the capacity to expand as a proprietary product,
if Apple wants to take advantage of the opportunity.
The transition to Windows on ARM was a failure because Microsoft was
leading the transition. They can't do _anything_ right. Even when they
come up with great ideas, you just know that they will abandon them if
they don't immediately capture 60% of the market.
On Wed, 14 Oct 2026 16:53:44 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The transition to Windows on ARM was a failure because Microsoft was
leading the transition. They can't do _anything_ right. Even when they
come up with great ideas, you just know that they will abandon them if
they don't immediately capture 60% of the market.
For a company with the resources of Microsoft they did an extremely poor
job the first time around in telling buyers Windows on ARM was not Windows
on x64.
The second time around they were more forthcoming but still didn't have a native port of much of the software. Developers remembered the first
fiasco and other Microsoft shooting star projects and stood back to see
what was going to happen. They appear to again have lost interest while chasing AI.
On 2026-10-14 8:46 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2026 16:53:44 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The transition to Windows on ARM was a failure because Microsoft was
leading the transition. They can't do _anything_ right. Even when they
come up with great ideas, you just know that they will abandon them if
they don't immediately capture 60% of the market.
For a company with the resources of Microsoft they did an extremely poor
job the first time around in telling buyers Windows on ARM was not
Windows
on x64.
The second time around they were more forthcoming but still didn't have a
native port of much of the software. Developers remembered the first
fiasco and other Microsoft shooting star projects and stood back to see
what was going to happen. They appear to again have lost interest while
chasing AI.
Microsoft's inability to transition to ARM basically handed Apple the
win as far as portable computing and energy efficiency goes. If either
of those two things is of interest to a customer, especially in this age
of high electrical bills, there is no reason whatsoever to pick up a PC.
On 10/14/2026 9:02 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:<snip 17 lines>
On 2026-10-14 8:46 p.m., rbowman wrote:
Microsoft's inability to transition to ARM basically handed Apple
the win as far as portable computing and energy efficiency goes. If
either of those two things is of interest to a customer, especially
in this age of high electrical bills, there is no reason whatsoever
to pick up a PC.
Windows on ARM is OK for what it is, but it doesn't fully deliver the
Windows experience, in truth, because x86-64 is native territory,
despite Windows being theoretically portable, it's not that it isn't
but it's been developed on x86 so long that it would be impossible to replicate the experience, on an ARM device.
Windows on ARM is OK for what it is, but it doesn't fully deliver the
Windows experience, in truth, because x86-64 is native territory,
despite Windows being theoretically portable, it's not that it isn't but
it's been developed on x86 so long that it would be impossible to
replicate the experience, on an ARM device.
Windows on ARM is OK for what it is, but it doesn't fully deliver the
Windows experience, in truth, because x86-64 is native territory,
despite Windows being theoretically portable, it's not that it isn't
but it's been developed on x86 so long that it would be impossible to
replicate the experience, on an ARM device.
It is pretty amazing Apple has been able to take Macs to different CPU architectures every few years and manage it so well. NOT painless. Next
year even Intel emulation goes away and some older programs just fade
away. Windows users face a lot less of that. But getting rid of the old
also has some benefits.
Does not mean I do not miss some older apps / games... but so be it.
Like the new stuff, too.
On 10/14/2026 9:43 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
It is pretty amazing Apple has been able to take Macs to different
CPU architectures every few years and manage it so well. NOT
painless. Next year even Intel emulation goes away and some older
programs just fade away. Windows users face a lot less of that. But
getting rid of the old also has some benefits.
Does not mean I do not miss some older apps / games... but so be it.
Like the new stuff, too.
I like to have the freshest experience possible, with a computer, so
using whatever is current is generally all I do.
On 10/14/2026 1:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-14 10:37, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/14/2026 1:26 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-14 07:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 5:32 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 13:22, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 2:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are
projects making this a lot better like NotProton, and
Crossover does a great job playing games as well. However, >>>>>>>>>> it's definitely not a direct approach and is likely to block >>>>>>>>>> those people, who are willing to spend way more, from buying a >>>>>>>>>> Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as
supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
Stop thinking so linearly, this is a fundamental chance for Apple >>>>>>> to destroy Microsoft, but it would take an effort that not
everyone can bring. I'll be honest, I don't like Apple's shit, >>>>>>> it won't work on me, but it could nevertheless make *great*
inroads into Microsoft territory, given the trends already seen >>>>>>> and the potential.
Why didn't you even TRY to answer the things I asked about?
Sorry. I meant that macOS would need to be a more robust
environment for gaming, to attract development along with the rise
in consumers using the OS. Apple could utilize existing Windows
emulation tools, it is true.
So by "native gaming subsystem" you meant nothing at all.
Got it.
I think it will require improvement, but it sounds like there's more
of one than I gave them credit for.
It seems to me like you (again) posted something about which you had
ZERO actual knowledge.
And yet, they clearly are not on the same level as MS on gaming.
On 2026-10-14 11:23, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/14/2026 1:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-14 10:37, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/14/2026 1:26 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-14 07:50, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 5:32 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 13:22, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/13/2026 2:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-10-13 11:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are >>>>>>>>>>> projects making this a lot better like NotProton, and
Crossover does a great job playing games as well. However, >>>>>>>>>>> it's definitely not a direct approach and is likely to block >>>>>>>>>>> those people, who are willing to spend way more, from buying >>>>>>>>>>> a Mac.
They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as >>>>>>>>>> supporting Windows emulation, yeah.
Describe what constitutes a "native gaming subsystem"...
...and Windows emulation IS already supported, doofus.
Stop thinking so linearly, this is a fundamental chance for
Apple to destroy Microsoft, but it would take an effort that not >>>>>>>> everyone can bring. I'll be honest, I don't like Apple's shit, >>>>>>>> it won't work on me, but it could nevertheless make *great*
inroads into Microsoft territory, given the trends already seen >>>>>>>> and the potential.
Why didn't you even TRY to answer the things I asked about?
Sorry. I meant that macOS would need to be a more robust
environment for gaming, to attract development along with the rise >>>>>> in consumers using the OS. Apple could utilize existing Windows >>>>>> emulation tools, it is true.
So by "native gaming subsystem" you meant nothing at all.
Got it.
I think it will require improvement, but it sounds like there's more
of one than I gave them credit for.
It seems to me like you (again) posted something about which you had
ZERO actual knowledge.
And yet, they clearly are not on the same level as MS on gaming.
Which has NOTHING to do with what you said.
Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened-with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>.
Given that a command line is kind of an integral part of the Unix
experience, what does this mean for those who keep insisting that
“Apple is Unix”?
For added fun, I checked the Apple App Store listing for the app <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ish-shell/id1436902243>, and the
description says:
A Linux-like shell on iOS. You can edit files with sed and cat,
move them around, and more!
“Linux-like” ... not even a mention of Unix any more ...
On Thu, 8 Oct 2026 23:23:12 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
<https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened-with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>.
Given that a command line is kind of an integral part of the Unix
experience, what does this mean for those who keep insisting that
“Apple is Unix”?
For added fun, I checked the Apple App Store listing for the app
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ish-shell/id1436902243>, and the
description says:
A Linux-like shell on iOS. You can edit files with sed and cat,
move them around, and more!
“Linux-like” ... not even a mention of Unix any more ...
For comparison, an Android device comes with actual Unix-type
utilities included as standard.
Today I was moving over a thousand photos I had collected on my cheap
little Samsung phone, over to my main PC. I created a tar archive on
the phone (yes, it includes tar as a standard utility accessible from
the built-in command line) and used the “adb pull” command to bring
that over to the Linux PC via USB.
Another useful tool was sha256sum, which I ran on the tar file at both
ends, to verify that it showed exactly the same hash before and after
the transfer. This gave me confidence that the transferred file was bit-for-bit identical to the original.
These are the kinds of industrial-strength tools for dealing with
large amounts of data that we take for granted in the world of
Unix-type OSes. What does Apple give you instead?
On 2026-10-20 01:04, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 8 Oct 2026 23:23:12 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
These are the kinds of industrial-strength tools for dealing with
large amounts of data that we take for granted in the world of
Unix-type OSes. What does Apple give you instead?
On a Mac, all the tools are either there or installable.
The iPhone was never intended to be a general purpose computing device.
As for the "adb" command, that isn't standard Unix, now is it?
And you can install it just as easily on a Mac as you can on a machine running Linux.
❯ port search adb
adblock2privoxy @3.0.1 (www, haskell)
Convert adblock config files to privoxy format
android-platform-tools @36.0.2 (java, devel)
Platform-Tools for Google Android SDK (adb and fastboot)
But that's no use with an iPhone. However, you can install ifuse, also available as a mac port
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 18:06:09 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
❯ port search adb
adblock2privoxy @3.0.1 (www, haskell)
Convert adblock config files to privoxy format
android-platform-tools @36.0.2 (java, devel)
Platform-Tools for Google Android SDK (adb and fastboot)
But that's no use with an iPhone. However, you can install ifuse,
also available as a mac port
Source code here <https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse> indicates
it gives only a limited view of your device, unless it's been
jailbroken. Seems like Apple doesn't actually natively support any
kind of FUSE API, either.
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 18:06:09 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
❯ port search adb
adblock2privoxy @3.0.1 (www, haskell)
Convert adblock config files to privoxy format
android-platform-tools @36.0.2 (java, devel)
Platform-Tools for Google Android SDK (adb and fastboot)
But that's no use with an iPhone. However, you can install ifuse, also
available as a mac port
Source code here <https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse> indicates
it gives only a limited view of your device, unless it’s been
jailbroken. Seems like Apple doesn’t actually natively support any
kind of FUSE API, either.
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 18:06:09 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
❯ port search adb
adblock2privoxy @3.0.1 (www, haskell)
Convert adblock config files to privoxy format
android-platform-tools @36.0.2 (java, devel)
Platform-Tools for Google Android SDK (adb and fastboot)
But that's no use with an iPhone. However, you can install ifuse, also
available as a mac port
Source code here <https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse> indicates
it gives only a limited view of your device, unless it’s been
jailbroken. Seems like Apple doesn’t actually natively support any
kind of FUSE API, either.
On Oct 20, 2026 at 7:19:35 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro"
<[email protected]d> wrote:
Source code here <https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse>
indicates it gives only a limited view of your device, unless it’s
been jailbroken. Seems like Apple doesn’t actually natively support
any kind of FUSE API, either.
Fortunately, it is not necessary to jump thru these hoops to move
photos from an iPhone to a Mac. Because Apple UNIX (macOS, iOS and
iPadOS) does all of this automatically.
Any photo you take with your
iPhone/iPad will be on all your other iCloud devices in seconds.
Plus there is the included Files app, where you can connect any
iPhone/iPad using SMB networking to a Windows SMB server or a Mac
SMB server or a Linux SMB server by entering the IP address of the
server on your Wi-Fi network.
On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 00:51:20 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
On Oct 20, 2026 at 7:19:35 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro"
<[email protected]d> wrote:
Source code here <https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse>
indicates it gives only a limited view of your device, unless it's
been jailbroken. Seems like Apple doesn't actually natively support
any kind of FUSE API, either.
Fortunately, it is not necessary to jump thru these hoops to move
photos from an iPhone to a Mac. Because Apple UNIX (macOS, iOS and
iPadOS) does all of this automatically.
But your so-called "UNIX" doesn't seem to provide basic Unix-type
utilities like tar and sha256sum, does it?
Any photo you take with your
iPhone/iPad will be on all your other iCloud devices in seconds.
But I don't want my private stuff finding its way onto some faceless corporate cloud under the jurisdiction of some foreign nation
currently in thrall to a potentially hostile regime.
Plus there is the included Files app, where you can connect any
iPhone/iPad using SMB networking to a Windows SMB server or a Mac SMB
server or a Linux SMB server by entering the IP address of the server
on your Wi-Fi network.
I was using USB to do the file transfers. USB 3 does transfers at multi-gigabit/second rates. How fast is your wi-fi?
On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 00:51:20 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
On Oct 20, 2026 at 7:19:35 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro"
<[email protected]d> wrote:
Source code here <https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse>
indicates it gives only a limited view of your device, unless it’s
been jailbroken. Seems like Apple doesn’t actually natively support
any kind of FUSE API, either.
Fortunately, it is not necessary to jump thru these hoops to move
photos from an iPhone to a Mac. Because Apple UNIX (macOS, iOS and
iPadOS) does all of this automatically.
But your so-called “UNIX” doesn’t seem to provide basic Unix-type utilities like tar and sha256sum, does it?
Any photo you take with your
iPhone/iPad will be on all your other iCloud devices in seconds.
But I don’t want my private stuff finding its way onto some faceless corporate cloud under the jurisdiction of some foreign nation
currently in thrall to a potentially hostile regime.
Plus there is the included Files app, where you can connect any
iPhone/iPad using SMB networking to a Windows SMB server or a Mac
SMB server or a Linux SMB server by entering the IP address of the
server on your Wi-Fi network.
I was using USB to do the file transfers. USB 3 does transfers at multi-gigabit/second rates. How fast is your wi-fi?
On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 00:51:20 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
On Oct 20, 2026 at 7:19:35 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro"
<[email protected]d> wrote:
Source code here <https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse>
indicates it gives only a limited view of your device, unless it’s
been jailbroken. Seems like Apple doesn’t actually natively support
any kind of FUSE API, either.
Fortunately, it is not necessary to jump thru these hoops to move
photos from an iPhone to a Mac. Because Apple UNIX (macOS, iOS and
iPadOS) does all of this automatically.
But your so-called “UNIX” doesn’t seem to provide basic Unix-type utilities like tar and sha256sum, does it?
Any photo you take with your
iPhone/iPad will be on all your other iCloud devices in seconds.
But I don’t want my private stuff finding its way onto some faceless corporate cloud under the jurisdiction of some foreign nation
currently in thrall to a potentially hostile regime.
Plus there is the included Files app, where you can connect any
iPhone/iPad using SMB networking to a Windows SMB server or a Mac
SMB server or a Linux SMB server by entering the IP address of the
server on your Wi-Fi network.
I was using USB to do the file transfers. USB 3 does transfers at multi-gigabit/second rates. How fast is your wi-fi?
On 2026-10-20 22:42, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 00:51:20 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
On Oct 20, 2026 at 7:19:35 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro"
<[email protected]d> wrote:
Source code here <https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse>
indicates it gives only a limited view of your device, unless it’s
been jailbroken. Seems like Apple doesn’t actually natively support
any kind of FUSE API, either.
Fortunately, it is not necessary to jump thru these hoops to move
photos from an iPhone to a Mac. Because Apple UNIX (macOS, iOS and
iPadOS) does all of this automatically.
But your so-called “UNIX” doesn’t seem to provide basic Unix-type
utilities like tar and sha256sum, does it?
"user@Mac ~ % man tar
Unknown locale, assuming C
...
TAR(1) General Commands Manual TAR(1)
NAME
tar - manipulate tape archives"
"
...
MD5(1) General Commands Manual MD5(1)
NAME
md5, sha1, sha224, sha256, sha384, sha512, md5sum, sha1sum, sha224sum, sha256sum, sha384sum, sha512sum - calculate a message-digest fingerprint (checksum) for a file"
The fact that the iPhone is not intended to be used with a command lines
is irrelevant.
Any photo you take with your
iPhone/iPad will be on all your other iCloud devices in seconds.
But I don’t want my private stuff finding its way onto some faceless
corporate cloud under the jurisdiction of some foreign nation
currently in thrall to a potentially hostile regime.
iCloud Drive files are completely (and end-to-end) encrypted with keys
not available to Apple.
As is almost everything with Advanced Data Protection:
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651>
On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 00:51:20 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
On Oct 20, 2026 at 7:19:35 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro"
<[email protected]d> wrote:
Source code here <https://github.com/libimobiledevice/ifuse>
indicates it gives only a limited view of your device, unless it’s
been jailbroken. Seems like Apple doesn’t actually natively support
any kind of FUSE API, either.
Fortunately, it is not necessary to jump thru these hoops to move
photos from an iPhone to a Mac. Because Apple UNIX (macOS, iOS and
iPadOS) does all of this automatically.
But your so-called “UNIX” doesn’t seem to provide basic Unix-type utilities like tar and sha256sum, does it?
Any photo you take with your
iPhone/iPad will be on all your other iCloud devices in seconds.
But I don’t want my private stuff finding its way onto some faceless corporate cloud under the jurisdiction of some foreign nation
currently in thrall to a potentially hostile regime.
Plus there is the included Files app, where you can connect any
iPhone/iPad using SMB networking to a Windows SMB server or a Mac
SMB server or a Linux SMB server by entering the IP address of the
server on your Wi-Fi network.
I was using USB to do the file transfers. USB 3 does transfers at multi-gigabit/second rates. How fast is your wi-fi?
Lawrence D´Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:<snip 4 lines>
On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 00:51:20 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
On Oct 20, 2026 at 7:19:35 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro"
<[email protected]d> wrote:
Fortunately, it is not necessary to jump thru these hoops to move
photos from an iPhone to a Mac. Because Apple UNIX (macOS, iOS and
iPadOS) does all of this automatically.
But your so-called "UNIX" doesn't seem to provide basic Unix-type
utilities like tar and sha256sum, does it?
Don't you EVER get tired of being wrong?
On Oct 21, 2026 at 3:56 PM, Nick Charles wrote in [email protected]:
Lawrence D´Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:<snip 4 lines>
On Wed, 21 Oct 2026 00:51:20 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
On Oct 20, 2026 at 7:19:35 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro"
<[email protected]d> wrote:
Fortunately, it is not necessary to jump thru these hoops to move
photos from an iPhone to a Mac. Because Apple UNIX (macOS, iOS and
iPadOS) does all of this automatically.
But your so-called "UNIX" doesn't seem to provide basic Unix-type
utilities like tar and sha256sum, does it?
Don't you EVER get tired of being wrong?
As long as he gets attention I do not think he cares.
Brock McNuggets <[email protected]> wrote:<snip 5 lines>
On Oct 21, 2026 at 3:56 PM, Nick Charles wrote in
[email protected]:
Lawrence D´Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
<snip 7 lines><snip 4 lines>
Don't you EVER get tired of being wrong?
As long as he gets attention I do not think he cares.
Because Troll who knows nothing about Apple, macOS or UNIX.
In that respect he is very much like Arlen. Keep making absurd claims
that are easily proven wrong.
I mean, wouldn't an intelligent adult first do some research before
making sweeping claims like "But your so-called "UNIX" doesn't seem to provide basic Unix-type utilities like tar and sha256sum, does it?"
Lawrence D´Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
But your so-called “UNIX” doesn’t seem to provide basic Unix-type
utilities like tar and sha256sum, does it?
Don’t you EVER get tired of being wrong?
I was using USB to do the file transfers. USB 3 does transfers at
multi-gigabit/second rates. How fast is your wi-fi?
Fast enough that I don’t have time to worry about it.
... who knows nothing about Apple, macOS or UNIX.
I mean, wouldn’t an intelligent adult first do some research before
making sweeping claims like “But your so-called "UNIX" doesn't seem
to provide basic Unix-type utilities like tar and sha256sum, does
it?”
On Thu, 22 Oct 2026 00:00:07 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
... who knows nothing about Apple, macOS or UNIX.
I do know which "Unix certifications" Apple has or has not got for its platforms, which it seems is a bit more than you.
| Sysop: | DaiTengu |
|---|---|
| Location: | Appleton, WI |
| Users: | 1,142 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 94:08:22 |
| Calls: | 14,704 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 186,497 |
| D/L today: |
2,664 files (888M bytes) |
| Messages: | 2,551,683 |