On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 20:57:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-03-04 20:26, Jason H wrote:
On 03/03/2026 06:54, rbowman wrote:
Odd question at this point but how do you say 'GNU'? I was watching a
Lunduke video where he was bitching about Ubuntu's apparent attempt to >>>> push Rust and was reading from a Ubuntu VP's statement. The first
encounter with GNU he definitely said G-N-U but later times it still
sounded like he was saying the letters. At one point he said F-A-Q but >>>> later said 'fak'.
Is that a Lunduke thing? I've always said it as in 'if you knew what
the gnu knew' with sort of a tongue flip on the G, same as with GNOME >>>> although sometimes I almost drop the G completely.
As far as the video, he did have a point. Apparently they want to
rewrite ls and other tools that have worked well for decades with
Rust, while admitting some of the fringe uses may break. The VP also
told the developers to stop using Python and use Rust, sternly worded
memo to follow.
I've pronounced it as Guh-noo for as long as I can remember.
I never had to pronounce it :-)
Other than Stallman few people ever had. It falls in the category of those words that, despite knowing their meaning, you do not use in conversation
to avoid sounding like a moron. 'segue' comes to mind...
On 04/03/2026 19:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-03-04 20:26, Jason H wrote:Curiously, neither have I.
On 03/03/2026 06:54, rbowman wrote:
Odd question at this point but how do you say 'GNU'? I was watching
a Lunduke video where he was bitching about Ubuntu's apparent
attempt to push Rust and was reading from a Ubuntu VP's statement.
The first encounter with GNU he definitely said G-N-U but later
times it still sounded like he was saying the letters. At one point
he said F-A-Q but later said 'fak'.
Is that a Lunduke thing? I've always said it as in 'if you knew what
the gnu knew' with sort of a tongue flip on the G, same as with
GNOME although sometimes I almost drop the G completely.
As far as the video, he did have a point. Apparently they want to
rewrite ls and other tools that have worked well for decades with
Rust, while admitting some of the fringe uses may break. The VP also
told the developers to stop using Python and use Rust, sternly
worded memo to follow.
I've pronounced it as Guh-noo for as long as I can remember.
I never had to pronounce it :-)
On 2026-03-04 23:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/03/2026 19:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I never had to pronounce it :-)Curiously, neither have I.
:-)
On a pinch, I would say G-N-U. Both in English or Spanish.
On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 22:16:58 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Same with dayter versus darter (data), UK tends toward Dayter, but I
wouldn't go apeshit in either case
Ain't no 'r' in data. Many US regional accents tend to throw r away
rather than adding it. There was a kid in grade school who said 'warshington; and the teachers could figure out where he got it from.
The teachers also had a thing about crick (creek) but that was an uphill battle in that part of the world.
On 05/03/2026 02:41, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 20:57:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-03-04 20:26, Jason H wrote:
I've pronounced it as Guh-noo for as long as I can remember.
I never had to pronounce it :-)
Other than Stallman few people ever had. It falls in the category of those >> words that, despite knowing their meaning, you do not use in conversation
to avoid sounding like a moron. 'segue' comes to mind...
Indeed. comes from the italian and music I believe.
Another one is copacetic. What a stupid pretentious word.
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Then there are the people who say "preventative" rather than the
perfectly adequate "preventive".
"'Orientate' is an example of the trend toward polysyllabificationizing."
-- Anon.
Indeed. comes from the italian and music I believe. Another one is
copacetic. What a stupid pretentious word.
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A when
they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A when they
say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
On 05/03/2026 21:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
On 05/03/2026 21:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
On 05/03/2026 21:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
On 2026-03-05 19:11, Phil wrote:
On 05/03/2026 21:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
Intrregal reminds me of another one 'interm', as in "he is the interm president".
weather: tempacher, temcher
Accredidation
The rinver in Paris, 'sign.
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 01:11:44 +0000, Phil wrote:
On 05/03/2026 21:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
You prefer “homo genius” do you? I remember that used to raise titters
in a certain maths class ...
So, is it “dill-emma” or “die-lemma”?
On Thu, 5 Mar 2026 23:14:58 -0600, lar3ryca wrote:
Accredidation
I was wading for that one ...
On 06/03/26 16:14, lar3ryca wrote:
The rinver in Paris, 'sign.
How would you like to be Going in Seine with me Lost in the sewers of
Paris with you ...
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 16:30:13 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 06/03/26 16:14, lar3ryca wrote:
The rinver in Paris, 'sign.
How would you like to be Going in Seine with me Lost in the sewers of
Paris with you ...
You meam it doesn't rhyme with 'deine'?
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
That is a real puzzle. I have heard "nucular" from peple who used to be
able to pronounce "nuclear". Something -- perhaps the news media -- has influenced them to change their pronunciation.
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
It's the law of conservation of 'r'. For everyone who drops an 'r'
(British of course), one is added to a word somewhere else.
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
You prefer “homo genius” do you? I remember that used to raise titters
in a certain maths class ...
So, is it “dill-emma” or “die-lemma”?
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
What's wrong with homogenous?
Den 06.03.2026 kl. 05.38 skrev Peter Moylan:
[...]
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
What's wrong with homogenous?
I think that he wants "homogeneous", but dictionary.com has both spelling.
On 06/03/26 17:23, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 16:30:13 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 06/03/26 16:14, lar3ryca wrote:
The rinver in Paris, 'sign.
How would you like to be Going in Seine with me Lost in the sewers of
Paris with you ...
You meam it doesn't rhyme with 'deine'?
I imagine it does, in German. But English prefers to copy the French pronunciation.
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 01:11:44 +0000, Phil wrote:
On 05/03/2026 21:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
You prefer “homo genius” do you? I remember that used to raise titters
in a certain maths class ...
So, is it “dill-emma” or “die-lemma”?
Le 06/03/2026 à 07:17, Bertel Lund Hansen a écrit :
Den 06.03.2026 kl. 05.38 skrev Peter Moylan:
[...]
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal' >>>> and 'disect'.
What's wrong with homogenous?
I think that he wants "homogeneous", but dictionary.com has both
spelling.
'Homogenous' is more recent, less frequent, and could be a corruption of 'homogeneous':
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=homogenous%2Chomogeneous&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false>
On the other hand, if you pick a peck of pukka people, you'll find they routinely skip syllables in some words. Comf'table, temp'rily (Jack
Hawkins' pronunciation), int'rest, med'cine, rest'rant....
Is this any different? It may be. Omission works only if people agree to accept it.
As for 'nucular', is it a corruption of 'nuclear' or 'avuncular'? Some people's ts are very like ds. Uncle Adam could easily be Uncle Atom.
I think I'll lie down now.
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous'
300 years ago you'd have been complaining that people said
"homogeneous" instead of "homegeneal".
On Thu, 5 Mar 2026 21:00:34 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A when they
say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
I can't explain it but in the '50s it was a common pronunciation by politicians and other talking heads. If Eisenhower said 'nucular' who was
a little kid to question it?
GW Bush was criticized for it but he's about my age so we grew up in the
same era I have to censor myself to say 'nuclear' or even 'nucleus'.
In the '50s it wasn't a common word. It was 'atomic bomb' not 'nuclear
bomb', 'atomic cannon' not 'nuclear cannon'.
On Thu, 5 Mar 2026 08:36:15 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Indeed. comes from the italian and music I believe. Another one is
copacetic. What a stupid pretentious word.
That took me down a cultural rabbit hole. According to some on a reddit,
it was used in the '90s Disney cartoon series 'Goof Troop', leading to a surge in usage in Gen whatever.
I had a friend who used it and I thought it was 1950's military slang.
He'd been a Marine in that brief interlude between Korea and Vietnam when
the US wasn't shooting up the world.
'Sarnt' was one I had to ask another friend about. That was 2000s military slang when for some reason a pseudo-southern accent was popular.--
Den 05.03.2026 kl. 22.00 skrev Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Not I, but such changes happen also in other languages.
In Danish the pronunciation of "materialer" often becomes "martrialer". "Evaluation" is "vurdering" in Danish, but it is pronounced as "vudering".
Den 06.03.2026 kl. 01.03 skrev Peter Moylan:
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
That is a real puzzle. I have heard "nucular" from peple who used to be
able to pronounce "nuclear". Something -- perhaps the news media -- has
influenced them to change their pronunciation.
Dubbya had that pronunciation. I have read that even some professors in nuclear physics also use it.
Some people's ts are very like ds. Uncle Adam could easily be Uncle Atom.
Peter Moylan <[email protected]> posted:
On 06/03/26 17:23, rbowman wrote:Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 16:30:13 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 06/03/26 16:14, lar3ryca wrote:
The rinver in Paris, 'sign.
How would you like to be Going in Seine with me Lost in the
sewers of Paris with you ...
You meam it doesn't rhyme with 'deine'?
I imagine it does, in German. But English prefers to copy the
French pronunciation.
pronunciation.
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English, there
will be a vowel change.
On 06/03/2026 11:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English, there will be a vowel change.
Enseignant grandmaman à sucer les œufs?
The written language certainly has them...
And I would contend that 'oui' is certainly a shifting vowel sound
lui, ennui...Louis
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel' however :-)
On 06/03/2026 11:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English, there will be a vowel change.
Enseignant grandmaman à sucer les œufs?
The written language certainly has them...
And I would contend that 'oui' is certainly a shifting vowel sound
lui, ennui...Louis
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel' however :-)
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> posted:
On 06/03/2026 11:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English, there >>> will be a vowel change.
Enseignant grandmaman à sucer les œufs?
The written language certainly has them...
Are you taking "diphthong" as a synonym of "digraph"?
way, and I was explicitly talking about pronunciation, as was Peter, so I don't see what is the relevance of your point. I only see one diphthong in the sentence you wrote (in "Enseignant"). If PTD were still among us
he could tell us what "diphthong" means to experts in linguistics.
And I would contend that 'oui' is certainly a shifting vowel sound
lui, ennui...Louis
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel'
however :-)
Ha
Lazy speech is endemicCan anybody explain “Nucular”?
That is a real puzzle. I have heard "nucular" from peple who used to be
able to pronounce "nuclear". Something -- perhaps the news media -- has
influenced them to change their pronunciation.
Dubbya had that pronunciation. I have read that even some professors
in nuclear physics also use it.
Den 06.03.2026 kl. 12.23 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Lazy speech is endemicCan anybody explain “Nucular”?
That is a real puzzle. I have heard "nucular" from peple who used to be >>>> able to pronounce "nuclear". Something -- perhaps the news media -- has >>>> influenced them to change their pronunciation.
Dubbya had that pronunciation. I have read that even some professors
in nuclear physics also use it.
It seems to me that "nucular" is at least as difficult as "nuclear".
On 06/03/2026 08:57, Hibou wrote:
The difference with 'nucular' is that a nucule is, separately, a thing:
1. (rare) A section of a compound fruit; a nutlet; a small nut.
2. The oogonium of a charophyte
I think I'll lie down now.
On 2026-03-05 15:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
It's the law of conservation of 'r'. For everyone who drops an 'r'
(British of course), one is added to a word somewhere else.
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
There's more: athalete and filum come immediately to mind.
Then there's the folks that say 'Frasier' when they are speaking of 'Fraser'.
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
No... I hear it all the time, too.
On the other hand, if you pick a peck of pukka people,
you'll find they routinely skip syllables in some words. Comf'table, temp'rily (Jack
Hawkins' pronunciation), int'rest, med'cine, rest'rant....
On 05/03/2026 21:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
I do, despite the titters. I still think of the seventh planet as 'your
anus' too, rather than 'urinous', which doesn't seem much less
titterogenic.
Here in southwestern British Columbia the Fraser River flows through the area, and many things take its name. This doesn't stop radio stations
south of the border from running ads for establishments on the Frasier
[sic] Highway.
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 10:00:06 +0000, Phil wrote:
I do, despite the titters. I still think of the seventh planet as 'your anus' too, rather than 'urinous', which doesn't seem much less titterogenic.
Twitters aside I don't think I've ever hear 'urinous'. Or urinium. 'Aluminium' is bad enough.
If Aluminium should be pronounced "Aloominum", how should e.g.
Helium; Sodium; Potassium; Uranium; Plutonium; etc. be pronounced?
In article <1rrkjfl.izsear126lhe1N%[email protected]>,
Sn!pe <[email protected]> wrote:
If Aluminium should be pronounced "Aloominum", how should e.g.
Helium; Sodium; Potassium; Uranium; Plutonium; etc. be pronounced?
But they don't spell it "aluminium".
-- Richard
On 06/03/2026 11:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English, there
will be a vowel change.
Enseignant grandmaman à sucer les œufs?
The written language certainly has them...
And I would contend that 'oui' is certainly a shifting vowel sound
lui, ennui...Louis
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel' however :-)
Richard Tobin <[email protected]> wrote:
In article <1rrkjfl.izsear126lhe1N%[email protected]>,
Sn!pe <[email protected]> wrote:
If Aluminium should be pronounced "Aloominum", how should
e.g. Helium; Sodium; Potassium; Uranium; Plutonium; etc.
be pronounced?
But they don't spell it "aluminium".
Do they not? How odd, I didn't know that.
If Aluminium should be pronounced "Aloominum", how should e.g.
Helium; Sodium; Potassium; Uranium; Plutonium; etc. be pronounced?
But they don't spell it "aluminium".
Sn!pe wrote:
Richard Tobin <[email protected]> wrote:
In article <1rrkjfl.izsear126lhe1N%[email protected]>, Sn!pe
<[email protected]> wrote:
If Aluminium should be pronounced "Aloominum", how should e.g.
Helium; Sodium; Potassium; Uranium; Plutonium; etc. be
pronounced?
But they don't spell it "aluminium".
Do they not? How odd, I didn't know that.
In the USA it's spelt aluminum
On 07/03/26 08:56, Blueshirt wrote:
Sn!pe wrote:
Richard Tobin <[email protected]> wrote:
In article <1rrkjfl.izsear126lhe1N%[email protected]>, Sn!pe
<[email protected]> wrote:
If Aluminium should be pronounced "Aloominum", how should e.g.
Helium; Sodium; Potassium; Uranium; Plutonium; etc. be
pronounced?
But they don't spell it "aluminium".
Do they not? How odd, I didn't know that.
In the USA it's spelt aluminum
There was a time, though, when it was spelt alumium. It took a while for
the spelling and pronunciation to settle down.
But they don't spell it "aluminium".
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 21:32:55 -0000 (UTC)
[email protected] (Richard Tobin) wrote:
If Aluminium should be pronounced "Aloominum", how should e.g.
Helium; Sodium; Potassium; Uranium; Plutonium; etc. be pronounced?
But they don't spell it "aluminium".
This got me curious enough to look it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Etymology
Surprisingly (compared to the usual path of US-vs.-Commonwealth
variances,) "aluminum" actually came first and was coined by a British chemist, while "aluminium" was coined by another Brit who thought that
the former didn't sound classy enough; Americans ended up with the
original spelling mainly because Noah Webster didn't include the latter
in his dictionary. "Aluminum" also happens to be the genitive plural in Latin, FWIW.
On 2026-03-06, Phil <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 05/03/2026 21:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Not me. It's one of my pet peeves, along with 'homogenous', 'intregal'
and 'disect'.
Especially during the month of FEB-yoo-ary.
On 07/03/26 08:56, Blueshirt wrote:
Sn!pe wrote:
Richard Tobin <[email protected]> wrote:
In article <1rrkjfl.izsear126lhe1N%[email protected]>, Sn!pe
<[email protected]> wrote:
If Aluminium should be pronounced "Aloominum", how should e.g.
Helium; Sodium; Potassium; Uranium; Plutonium; etc. be
pronounced?
But they don't spell it "aluminium".
Do they not? How odd, I didn't know that.
In the USA it's spelt aluminum
There was a time, though, when it was spelt alumium. It took a while for
the spelling and pronunciation to settle down.
2. The oogonium of a charophyte
... (and still insist on sulphur, even though that one is lost) ...
On 06/03/2026 11:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English, there
will be a vowel change.
Enseignant grandmaman � sucer les �ufs?
The written language certainly has them...
And I would contend that 'oui' is certainly a shifting vowel sound
lui, ennui...Louis
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel' however :-)
Richard Tobin <[email protected]> wrote:
In article <1rrkjfl.izsear126lhe1N%[email protected]>,
Sn!pe <[email protected]> wrote:
If Aluminium should be pronounced "Aloominum", how should e.g. Helium;
Sodium; Potassium; Uranium; Plutonium; etc. be pronounced?
But they don't spell it "aluminium".
-- Richard
Do they not? How odd, I didn't know that.
And whilst I stick to aluminium (and still insist on sulphur, even
though that one is lost), I have to acknowledge that even over here we
have alumina and not aluminia.
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
That is a real puzzle. I have heard "nucular" from peple who used to be
able to pronounce "nuclear". Something -- perhaps the news media -- has >influenced them to change their pronunciation.
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 10:00:06 +0000, Phil wrote:
I do, despite the titters. I still think of the seventh planet as 'your
anus' too, rather than 'urinous', which doesn't seem much less
titterogenic.
Twitters aside I don't think I've ever hear 'urinous'. Or urinium. >'Aluminium' is bad enough.
The Natural Philosopher blurted out:
On 06/03/2026 11:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English,
there will be a vowel change.
Enseignant grandmaman à sucer les œufs?
The written language certainly has them...
And I would contend that 'oui' is certainly a shifting vowel sound
lui, ennui...Louis
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel'
however
I understand it's tricky for Germans, also.
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel' >however :-)
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to
rhyme with “colder”?
On Thu, 5 Mar 2026 21:00:34 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A when they
say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
I can't explain it but in the '50s it was a common pronunciation by politicians and other talking heads. If Eisenhower said 'nucular' who was
a little kid to question it?
GW Bush was criticized for it but he's about my age so we grew up in the same era I have to censor myself to say 'nuclear' or even 'nucleus'.
In the '50s it wasn't a common word. It was 'atomic bomb' not 'nuclear bomb', 'atomic cannon' not 'nuclear cannon'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M65_atomic_cannon
I grew up near one of the arsenals where it was manufactured and they love to set up the barrel during the open houses so you could look down the
bore. That and the parachute tower were the two big attractions.
Today strapping a kid into a harness and kicking him off a 35' tower might get Child Protective Services on the premises. Helmets? Protective Gear?
Are you shitting me?
Dubbya had that pronunciation.
On 07/03/26 15:32, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
Oi'll do the same thing.
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 12.22 skrev Carlos E.R.:
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of air.
One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as she
likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so much a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move your tongue
in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a Spanish-
speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> posted:
On 06/03/2026 11:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English, there will be a vowel change.
Enseignant grandmaman � sucer les �ufs?
The written language certainly has them...
Are you taking "diphthong" as a synonym of "digraph"? I didn't mean it that way, and I was explicitly talking about pronunciation, as was Peter, so I don't see what is the relevance of your point. I only see one diphthong in the sentence you wrote (in "Enseignant"). If PTD were still among us
he could tell us what "diphthong" means to experts in linguistics.
And I would contend that 'oui' is certainly a shifting vowel sound
lui, ennui...Louis
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel' however :-)
Ha. You should try getting a Spanish speaker to say it.
Den 06.03.2026 kl. 12.23 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Lazy speech is endemicCan anybody explain “Nucular”?
That is a real puzzle. I have heard "nucular" from peple who used to be >>>> able to pronounce "nuclear". Something -- perhaps the news media -- has >>>> influenced them to change their pronunciation.
Dubbya had that pronunciation. I have read that even some professors
in nuclear physics also use it.
It seems to me that "nucular" is at least as difficult as "nuclear".
On 2026-03-06, Hibou <[email protected]d> wrote:
On the other hand, if you pick a peck of pukka people,
:-)
you'll find they
routinely skip syllables in some words. Comf'table, temp'rily (Jack
Hawkins' pronunciation), int'rest, med'cine, rest'rant....
A lot of this seems to be a British thing. They seem to be the
ones who go to the lib'ry to look up contemp'ry lit'ry works.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 06.52 skrev Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to
rhyme with “colder”?
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/solder
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
On 07/03/26 15:32, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US,
sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
Oi'll do the same thing.
On 2026-03-07 05:32, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US,
sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
No, this is not an USA/UK think, but rather English vs Spanish. English
has vowels that a Spanish ear does not distinguish. To us it is a sound
that is in between two vowels, our ears do not distinguish it.
athel said that Spanish speakers can't say 'squirrel'. Being Spanish I
don't know what is the problem, I will have to ask the next time I visit
the other side of the pond what it is about :-D
But it has to be related to our ears being educated to hear the English sounds in Spanish. We do not distinguish the extra sounds. And our
throats can not make those extra sounds.
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
<[email protected]> wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> posted:
On 06/03/2026 11:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English, there >>>> will be a vowel change.
Enseignant grandmaman à sucer les œufs?
The written language certainly has them...
Are you taking "diphthong" as a synonym of "digraph"? I didn't mean it that >> way, and I was explicitly talking about pronunciation, as was Peter, so I
don't see what is the relevance of your point. I only see one diphthong in >> the sentence you wrote (in "Enseignant"). If PTD were still among us
he could tell us what "diphthong" means to experts in linguistics.
And I would contend that 'oui' is certainly a shifting vowel sound
lui, ennui...Louis
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel'
however :-)
Ha. You should try getting a Spanish speaker to say it.
My Danish ex-wife could not say "ashtray", instead saying "atchray";
and likewise "thashed" instead of "thatched".
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrød
med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrød
med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".
My Danish ex-wife could not say "ashtray", instead saying "atchray";
and likewise "thashed" instead of "thatched".
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrødDanish= German with a seasick accent
med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of
air. One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as
she likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so
much a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move
your tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish- speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
No, I don't think it is genetic. It is a learned ability when we are
babies.
No, I don't think it is genetic. It is a learned ability when we are
babies.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.20 skrev Sn!pe:
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrød
med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".
You spelled it correctly. It is a Danish shibboleth, but I find it a bit stupid to expose foreighners to that sort of thing.
The phrase contains two ø-sounds which are seldom in other languages
plus the Danish r-sound which is quite weak.
Three versions of the pronunciation - all om them standard.
https://forvo.com/search/r%C3%B8dgr%C3%B8d/
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.41 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrødDanish= German with a seasick accent
med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".
No.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.01 skrev Carlos E.R.:
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of
air. One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as
she likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so
much a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move
your tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish- speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
No, I don't think it is genetic. It is a learned ability when we are
babies.
To the best of my knowledge my daughter has never practised the sound.
It doesn't exist in Danish and she has not learnt Spanish or another language with the rr-sound. The same goes for my grandson.
My Danish ex-wife could not say "ashtray", instead saying "atchray";
and likewise "thashed" instead of "thatched".
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrød
med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.01 skrev Carlos E.R.:
No, I don't think it is genetic. It is a learned ability when we are
babies.
I should have answered differemtly, so here goes.
It's not genetic in the sense that (almost?) anyone can learn it with
enough practise, but some people do not need to practise.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.41 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrødDanish= German with a seasick accent
med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".
No.
On 2026-03-07, Bertel Lund Hansen <[email protected]> wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.41 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrød >>>> med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".Danish= German with a seasick accent
No.
No, that is Swedish!
In UK English there are tow words spelled, but not pronounced the same
Router.
1. From the French route, meaning path or road, and applied to
networking equipment that decide where to send packets of
data. Pronounce 'rooter', to rhyme with root.
2. From Latin rout meaning something that causes a rout, pronounced
'rowter' which is a wood working milling tool that turns solid wood
into sawdust and shavings
Or a cataclysmic defeat or what a pig does looking for roots.
US 'English' does not distinguish the two
Danes have less sense of humour than Germans...Danish= German with a seasick accent
No.
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> writes:
In UK English there are tow words spelled, but not pronounced the same
Router.
1. From the French route, meaning path or road, and applied to
networking equipment that decide where to send packets of
data. Pronounce 'rooter', to rhyme with root.
2. From Latin rout meaning something that causes a rout, pronounced
'rowter' which is a wood working milling tool that turns solid wood
into sawdust and shavings
Or a cataclysmic defeat or what a pig does looking for roots.
US 'English' does not distinguish the two
I recall a long-ago conversation with an American colleague about the pronunciation of ‘router’, in which he proposed that since it was an American-made router, it should be pronounced the American way, even by British English speakers.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 14.46 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Danes have less sense of humour than Germans...Danish= German with a seasick accent
No.
No. Your comparison is just so way off that it's not funny.
This is funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykj3Kpm3O0g
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> writes:
In UK English there are tow words spelled, but not pronounced the same
Router.
1. From the French route, meaning path or road, and applied to
networking equipment that decide where to send packets of
data. Pronounce 'rooter', to rhyme with root.
2. From Latin rout meaning something that causes a rout, pronounced
'rowter' which is a wood working milling tool that turns solid wood
into sawdust and shavings
Or a cataclysmic defeat or what a pig does looking for roots.
US 'English' does not distinguish the two
I recall a long-ago conversation with an American colleague about the pronunciation of ‘router’, in which he proposed that since it was an American-made router, it should be pronounced the American way, even by British English speakers.
On 07/03/2026 06:14, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 06.52 skrev Lawrence D’Oliveiro:Most of them say 'sod her'
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to
rhyme with “colder”?
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/solder
To rhyme with 'water'
On 2026-03-07 05:32, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
No, this is not an USA/UK think, but rather English vs Spanish. English
has vowels that a Spanish ear does not distinguish. To us it is a sound
that is in between two vowels, our ears do not distinguish it.
athel said that Spanish speakers can't say 'squirrel'.
Being Spanish I
don't know what is the problem,
the other side of the pond what it is about :-D
But it has to be related to our ears being educated to hear the English sounds in Spanish. We do not distinguish the extra sounds. And our
throats can not make those extra sounds.
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
<[email protected]> wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> posted:
On 06/03/2026 11:47, Peter Moylan wrote:
Imitate, rather than copy. There is no diphthong in the French
pronunciation.
I take your point. Whenever a French word is adopted into English, there >>>> will be a vowel change.
Enseignant grandmaman à sucer les œufs?
The written language certainly has them...
Are you taking "diphthong" as a synonym of "digraph"? I didn't mean it that >> way, and I was explicitly talking about pronunciation, as was Peter, so I
don't see what is the relevance of your point. I only see one diphthong in >> the sentence you wrote (in "Enseignant"). If PTD were still among us
he could tell us what "diphthong" means to experts in linguistics.
And I would contend that 'oui' is certainly a shifting vowel sound
lui, ennui...Louis
I do remember the total inability of a French au pair to say 'squirrel'
however :-)
Ha. You should try getting a Spanish speaker to say it.
My Danish ex-wife could not say "ashtray", instead saying "atchray";
and likewise "thashed" instead of "thatched".
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrød
med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".
athel said that Spanish speakers can't say 'squirrel'. Being Spanish I
don't know what is the problem, I will have to ask the next time I visit
the other side of the pond what it is about :-D
But it has to be related to our ears being educated to hear the English sounds in Spanish. We do not distinguish the extra sounds. And our
throats can not make those extra sounds.
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second ACan anybody explain “Nucular”?
when they say "realator".
I disagree. My router (row-ter directs signals to my computers
when connected.
In the past when I was much younger my routes (roots) on my motorcycle
trips were carefully chosen. Even younger I lived on farms in the countryside and mail was directed to route (rout) #Whatever.
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to
rhyme with “colder”?
I had amnesia once -- or twice.
On 2026-03-07 10:49, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I disagree.� My router (row-ter directs signals to my computers
when connected.
In the past when I was much younger my routes (roots) on my motorcycle
trips were carefully chosen. Even younger I lived on farms in the
countryside and mail was directed to route (rout) #Whatever.
In Canada, we have what is known as 'Rural routes', and the second word
is pronounced like 'root'.
The first word is often mangled to sound like 'rule'.
In addressing snail mail, it is almost always abbreviated to 'RR', so it >might be 'RR3', for example.
"Carlos E.R." <[email protected]d> posted:
On 2026-03-07 05:32, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, >>> sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
No, this is not an USA/UK think, but rather English vs Spanish. English
has vowels that a Spanish ear does not distinguish. To us it is a sound
that is in between two vowels, our ears do not distinguish it.
athel said that Spanish speakers can't say 'squirrel'.
Well, I'm not sure I said quite as plainly as that, but you're right that
I implied it.
Being Spanish I
don't know what is the problem,
Most Spanish speakers that I know (and I know lots, including my wife, mostly in Chile and Spain) have difficulty saying "a squirrel" without making it sound like "an esquirrel".
I will have to ask the next time I visit
the other side of the pond what it is about :-D
But it has to be related to our ears being educated to hear the English
sounds in Spanish. We do not distinguish the extra sounds. And our
throats can not make those extra sounds.
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
On 07/03/2026 11:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-03-07 05:32, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, >>> sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
No, this is not an USA/UK think, but rather English vs Spanish.
English has vowels that a Spanish ear does not distinguish. To us it
is a sound that is in between two vowels, our ears do not distinguish it.
athel said that Spanish speakers can't say 'squirrel'. Being Spanish I
don't know what is the problem, I will have to ask the next time I
visit the other side of the pond what it is about :-D
But it has to be related to our ears being educated to hear the
English sounds in Spanish. We do not distinguish the extra sounds. And
our throats can not make those extra sounds.
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
Well its all a matter of careful listening and mimicking
isn't that pronounced 'hor - hay' ?
And rr more ry ?
What's wanted is a bit of Hwyl. Like the Welsh Rugby team in Ireland
last night. (probably early a.m. for you)
On 2026-03-07 18:00, [email protected] wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <[email protected]d> posted:
On 2026-03-07 05:32, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the
US,
sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
I come very close to making two syllables out of it, oy el.
No, this is not an USA/UK think, but rather English vs Spanish. English
has vowels that a Spanish ear does not distinguish. To us it is a sound
that is in between two vowels, our ears do not distinguish it.
athel said that Spanish speakers can't say 'squirrel'.
Well, I'm not sure I said quite as plainly as that, but you're right that
I implied it.
Being Spanish I
don't know what is the problem,
Most Spanish speakers that I know (and I know lots, including my wife,
mostly
in Chile and Spain) have difficulty saying "a squirrel" without making it
sound like "an esquirrel".
Ah, you mean the first 's' letter without an 'es'. Yes, I understand
that one. I can. My relatives in Canada noticed me doing it correctly
and told me; many Spaniards can't. True.
Like in the word Spain.
--I will have to ask the next time I visit
the other side of the pond what it is about :-D
But it has to be related to our ears being educated to hear the English
sounds in Spanish. We do not distinguish the extra sounds. And our
throats can not make those extra sounds.
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
Op 5/03/2026 om 22:00 schreef Lawrence D'Oliveiro:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
There was a funny article about odd ways of mispronouncing (the treaty
of) Maastricht. Mass trick and mistreat were amongst the lot.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 12.22 skrev Carlos E.R.:
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of air.
One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as she
likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so much a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move your tongue
in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish-speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
My Danish ex-wife could not say "ashtray", instead saying "atchray";
and likewise "thashed" instead of "thatched".
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 11:02:32 +0000, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
What's wanted is a bit of Hwyl. Like the Welsh Rugby team in
Ireland last night. (probably early a.m. for you)
Welsh has all the consonants all other known languages dropped. I
read a pronunciation guide once and promptly forgot it.
As a Dane living in California, I correspond in Danish and (US)
English, so keyboards have always been a challenge; both the
mechanical aspect and the key mapping aspects. ... Years ago, I
settled on a US keyboard and "United States - International" keymap.
There is an almost identical keymap for Linux, which I use. But
there are occasional nuisances.
Just today I found that a new GPU driver (AMD Adrenaline) on my Windows system had hijacked ALT+l (Danish ø) to turn on GPU performance logging,
and it took a whle to figure out how to get it to not do that.
But more commonly, I find that the CAPS key gets accidentally
touched when I meant SHIFT (non-locking), and the Windows version
needs me to touch CAPS again to get back, while on Linux I can reset
it by touching (and releasing) SHIFT. I would much rather have it be inoperable (dead) on both. How do I do that on each? (And what idiot
invented that CAPS lock function? It might make sense on some
cyrillic keyboards, where the shifted position is latin letters?)
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
On 2026-03-06 23:52, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to
rhyme with “colder”?
In Canada, it's usually 'sodder' with the first vowel as in 'hot'.
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> writes:
In UK English there are tow words spelled, but not pronounced the same
Router.
1. From the French route, meaning path or road, and applied to
networking equipment that decide where to send packets of
data. Pronounce 'rooter', to rhyme with root.
2. From Latin rout meaning something that causes a rout, pronounced
'rowter' which is a wood working milling tool that turns solid wood
into sawdust and shavings
Or a cataclysmic defeat or what a pig does looking for roots.
US 'English' does not distinguish the two
I recall a long-ago conversation with an American colleague about the pronunciation of ‘router’, in which he proposed that since it was an American-made router, it should be pronounced the American way, even by British English speakers.
No, I don't think it is genetic. It is a learned ability when we are
babies.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.01 skrev Carlos E.R.:
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weeklyNo, I don't think it is genetic. It is a learned ability when we are
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of
air. One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as
she likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so
much a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move
your tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish- speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
babies.
To the best of my knowledge my daughter has never practised the sound.
It doesn't exist in Danish and she has not learnt Spanish or another
language with the rr-sound. The same goes for my grandson.
Op 5/03/2026 om 22:00 schreef Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
As I've mentioned here once, I'm pretty sure I've heard Bush jr.
talk about New Killer weapons.
But that is why people with good ears can do well in foreign languages.
My sister speaks German indistinguishably from a Bavarian or maybe well educated Italian.
Because that's where she learnt it
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 21:49:36 +0100, guido wugi wrote:
Op 5/03/2026 om 22:00 schreef Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
As I've mentioned here once, I'm pretty sure I've heard Bush jr.
talk about New Killer weapons.
Ah! “New Killer weapons” actually seems like a good excuse for
saying it that way!
Not so good when you’re trying to promote “New Killer power”, though
In UK English there are tow words spelled, but not pronounced the same
Router.
1. From the French route, meaning path or road, and applied to
networking equipment that decide where to send packets of data.
Pronounce 'rooter', to rhyme with root.
2. From Latin rout meaning something that causes a rout, pronounced
'rowter' which is a wood working milling tool that turns solid wood into sawdust and shavings
Or a cataclysmic defeat or what a pig does looking for roots.
US 'English' does not distinguish the two
Even younger I lived on farms in the countryside and mail was directed
to route (rout) #Whatever. I use "whatever" because I was very young
and do not recall the numbers assigned but something like Rural Route
#2.
We (in the US) have, or had, RR addresses, but we'd say "rowt" and not "root". Google says there are still RR## addresses, but I've never
noticed one.
However, I since discovered that I can make a similar sound in the back
of my throat - which I much later discovered is known as a "voiced
uvular trill" -
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to rhyme with “colder”?
Thus spake rbowman:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2026 21:00:34 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A when
they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
I can't explain it but in the '50s it was a common pronunciation by
politicians and other talking heads. If Eisenhower said 'nucular' who
was a little kid to question it?
GW Bush was criticized for it but he's about my age so we grew up in
the same era I have to censor myself to say 'nuclear' or even
'nucleus'.
In the '50s it wasn't a common word. It was 'atomic bomb' not 'nuclear
bomb', 'atomic cannon' not 'nuclear cannon'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M65_atomic_cannon
But "nuclear weapons" and "nuclear submarine".
Danish= German with a seasick accent
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 14.46 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Danes have less sense of humour than Germans...Danish= German with a seasick accent
No.
No. Your comparison is just so way off that it's not funny.
This is funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykj3Kpm3O0g
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:44:16 +0000, Phil wrote:
And whilst I stick to aluminium (and still insist on sulphur, even
though that one is lost), I have to acknowledge that even over here we
have alumina and not aluminia.
I tend to write 'sulphur' although I'm not sure why. The spelling must
have been common in the '50s. I also use 'phantasy' on alternate Tuesdays. Again, consistency' 'Fantom of the Opera' doesn't get it.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 14.46 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Danes have less sense of humour than Germans...Danish= German with a seasick accent
No.
No. Your comparison is just so way off that it's not funny.
This is funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykj3Kpm3O0g
On 2026-03-07 10:49, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I disagree. My router (row-ter directs signals to my computers when
connected.
In the past when I was much younger my routes (roots) on my motorcycle
trips were carefully chosen. Even younger I lived on farms in the
countryside and mail was directed to route (rout) #Whatever.
In Canada, we have what is known as 'Rural routes', and the second word
is pronounced like 'root'.
The first word is often mangled to sound like 'rule'.
In addressing snail mail, it is almost always abbreviated to 'RR', so it might be 'RR3', for example.
I tend to write 'sulphur' although I'm not sure why. The spelling must
have been common in the '50s. I also use 'phantasy' on alternate Tuesdays. >Again, consistency' 'Fantom of the Opera' doesn't get it.
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, >sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
Maybe California, Oregon and Washington though can join a trade deal
being orchestrated by Canada to offset the American stress on their
mutual economies.
It would join Japan, Australian and some other reasonable nations, they should think about South American nations as well.
On Sat, 07 Mar 2026 16:35:34 -0500, Tony Cooper wrote:
We (in the US) have, or had, RR addresses, but we'd say "rowt" and not
"root". Google says there are still RR## addresses, but I've never
noticed one.
Maybe in your part of the US :)
On 7 Mar 2026 04:32:05 GMT, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, >sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
As in "you-awl"?
On 08/03/26 10:07, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 21:49:36 +0100, guido wugi wrote:
Op 5/03/2026 om 22:00 schreef Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
As I've mentioned here once, I'm pretty sure I've heard Bush jr.
talk about New Killer weapons.
Ah! “New Killer weapons” actually seems like a good excuse for
saying it that way!
Not so good when you’re trying to promote “New Killer power”, though
There was recent news about OpenAI teaming up with Trump to produce
killer robots. As an engineer, I was pleased to hear about an open
letter from 200 engineers at OpenAI and Google saying that they refused
to do it.
There was another way they could have saved their consciences. Design
the robots, but put a rule in the software to say they can't kill anyone except Trump or Hegseth.
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 11:02:32 +0000, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
What's wanted is a bit of Hwyl. Like the Welsh Rugby team in Ireland
last night. (probably early a.m. for you)
Welsh has all the consonants all other known languages dropped. I read a pronunciation guide once and promptly forgot it.
On 3/7/2026 10:12 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 14.46 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Danes have less sense of humour than Germans...Danish= German with a seasick accent
No.
No. Your comparison is just so way off that it's not funny.
This is funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykj3Kpm3O0g
Try this:
https://satwcomic.com/language-barrier
pt
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.20 skrev Sn!pe:
To be fair, I can neither say nor spell in danish the phrase "rødgrød
med fløde på" which means "red pudding with cream on".
You spelled it correctly. It is a Danish shibboleth, but I find it a bit stupid to expose foreighners to that sort of thing.
The phrase contains two ø-sounds which are seldom in other languages
plus the Danish r-sound which is quite weak.
Three versions of the pronunciation - all om them standard.
https://forvo.com/search/r%C3%B8dgr%C3%B8d/
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 05:52:06 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to rhyme >> with “colder”?
Only if you pronounce 'colder' as 'codder'. A soul-dering iron sounds perverse.
On 3/6/2026 11:26 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:44:16 +0000, Phil wrote:
And whilst I stick to aluminium (and still insist on sulphur, even
though that one is lost), I have to acknowledge that even over here we
have alumina and not aluminia.
I tend to write 'sulphur' although I'm not sure why. The spelling must
have been common in the '50s. I also use 'phantasy' on alternate
Tuesdays.
Again, consistency' 'Fantom of the Opera' doesn't get it.
Google Ngram shows 'sulfur' appearing around 1880, peaking in 1980, and
the tailing off. 'Sulphur' predates 1800, and peaks around 1920, then
falls off, now being about half as common as 'sulfur'.
On 3/7/2026 7:12 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 3/7/2026 10:12 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 14.46 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Danes have less sense of humour than Germans...Danish= German with a seasick accent
No.
No. Your comparison is just so way off that it's not funny.
This is funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykj3Kpm3O0g
Try this:
https://satwcomic.com/language-barrier
This one is more on-point:
https://satwcomic.com/language-lesson
On 7 Mar 2026 04:26:12 GMT, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
I tend to write 'sulphur' although I'm not sure why. The spelling must
have been common in the '50s. I also use 'phantasy' on alternate
Tuesdays.
Again, consistency' 'Fantom of the Opera' doesn't get it.
But fandom of opera does?
On 7 Mar 2026 04:32:05 GMT, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, >>sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
As in "you-awl"?
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 16:12:44 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Maybe California, Oregon and Washington though can join a trade deal
being orchestrated by Canada to offset the American stress on their
mutual economies.
It would join Japan, Australian and some other reasonable nations, they
should think about South American nations as well.
Ecotopia? Cascadia? Northwest Territorial Imperative? Most of those
schemes, left and right, leave out southern California as beyond repair.
Give it to Atzlan.
On 2026-03-07, Peter Moylan <[email protected]> wrote:
On 08/03/26 10:07, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 21:49:36 +0100, guido wugi wrote:There was recent news about OpenAI teaming up with Trump to produce
Op 5/03/2026 om 22:00 schreef Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
As I've mentioned here once, I'm pretty sure I've heard Bush jr.
talk about New Killer weapons.
Ah! “New Killer weapons” actually seems like a good excuse for
saying it that way!
Not so good when you’re trying to promote “New Killer power”, though >>
killer robots. As an engineer, I was pleased to hear about an open
letter from 200 engineers at OpenAI and Google saying that they refused
to do it.
There was another way they could have saved their consciences. Design
the robots, but put a rule in the software to say they can't kill anyone
except Trump or Hegseth.
They should go whole hog and implement Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics.
On 08/03/26 10:40, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 05:52:06 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to rhyme >>> with “colder”?
Only if you pronounce 'colder' as 'codder'. A soul-dering iron sounds
perverse.
A sodding iron sounds even more perverse. And very painful.
We are not breaking up states but allying for trade with a more
sensible set of nations, than the present USA under the Orange bully
who only loves Tariffs.
While "fosforus" sits right down near the zero line.
Most Spanish speakers that I know (and I know lots, including my wife, mostly in Chile and Spain) have difficulty saying "a squirrel" without making it sound like "an esquirrel".
And you know that if you want to stop the LBGTQ+ people from being born the answer is simply that Heterosexuals need to stop having sex.
After all we all come from that activity.
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 05:52:06 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:It's sole, not soul.
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to rhyme >> with “colder”?
Only if you pronounce 'colder' as 'codder'. A soul-dering iron sounds perverse.
On 08/03/26 10:40, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 05:52:06 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to rhyme >>> with “colder”?
Only if you pronounce 'colder' as 'codder'. A soul-dering iron sounds
perverse.
A sodding iron sounds even more perverse. And very painful.
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 03:01:57 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:
On 7 Mar 2026 04:32:05 GMT, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the US, >>> sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
As in "you-awl"?
No as in "I put a kwaut uv awl in da cah."
To the best of my knowledge my daughter has never practised the sound.
It doesn't exist in Danish and she has not learnt Spanish or another
language with the rr-sound. The same goes for my grandson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QXJ3OXWaOY
No way can I get that purring sound out of 'Messer' and other words with
'r'. It might be a stylistic affectation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeQG5rv592Q
Whole different style but you don't hear a rolling 'r' in 'er', 'trägt'
and other words that are in the 1931 movie version.
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of air.
One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as she
likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so much a
question of previous language as the genetic abality to move your tongue
in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish-speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem, and
dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay attention.
Most Spanish speakers that I know (and I know lots, including my wife,
mostly
in Chile and Spain) have difficulty saying "a squirrel" without making it
sound like "an esquirrel".
I like that. I'd make that English if I could.
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
The letter 'r' is a problem for anyone learning a foreign language. It
seems to be different in each language.
There was another way they could have saved their consciences. Design
the robots, but put a rule in the software to say they can't kill anyone except Trump or Hegseth.
On 08/03/26 10:07, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:[...]
Ah! “New Killer weapons” actually seems like a good excuse for
saying it that way!
Not so good when you’re trying to promote “New Killer power”, though
There was recent news about OpenAI teaming up with Trump to produce
killer robots. As an engineer, I was pleased to hear about an open
letter from 200 engineers at OpenAI and Google saying that they refused
to do it.
There was another way they could have saved their consciences. Design
the robots, but put a rule in the software to say they can't kill anyone except Trump or Hegseth.
On 3/7/26 19:13, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 08/03/26 10:40, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 05:52:06 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to rhyme
with “colder”?
Only if you pronounce 'colder' as 'codder'. A soul-dering iron sounds
perverse.
A sodding iron sounds even more perverse. And very painful.
But in the USA, at least among the folks I used to talk to, it was a Sod-ering iron.
On 08/03/2026 04:37, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 03:01:57 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:
On 7 Mar 2026 04:32:05 GMT, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the
US,
sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
As in "you-awl"?
No as in "I put a kwaut uv awl in da cah."
Out of interest, how may quarts in a US gallon?
Den 08.03.2026 kl. 00.07 skrev rbowman:
To the best of my knowledge my daughter has never practised the sound.
It doesn't exist in Danish and she has not learnt Spanish or another
language with the rr-sound. The same goes for my grandson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QXJ3OXWaOY
No way can I get that purring sound out of 'Messer' and other words
with 'r'. It might be a stylistic affectation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeQG5rv592Q
Whole different style but you don't hear a rolling 'r' in 'er', 'trägt'
and other words that are in the 1931 movie version.
What's your point?
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.40 skrev rbowman:
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of
air.
One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as she
likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so much a
question of previous language as the genetic abality to move your
tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish-speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem, and
dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay attention.
Where did you grow up? When I went to school some of my classmates
couldn't pronounce the th-sound. My guess is that few Danes, if any,
have that problem today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QXJ3OXWaOY
No way can I get that purring sound out of 'Messer' and other words
with 'r'. It might be a stylistic affectation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeQG5rv592Q
Whole different style but you don't hear a rolling 'r' in 'er', 'trägt' >>> and other words that are in the 1931 movie version.
What's your point?
That I can't make the rolling r sound from the first clip.
Between the 1931 film and the 1960s song they seemed to be toned down, even more so
with groups like Rammstein.
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem, and
dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay attention.
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 06:22:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Out of interest, how may quarts in a US gallon?
Four. Before Canada went off the deep end with metric I always thought I
was getting a bargain when I bought their 5 quart gasoline.
On 08/03/26 02:10, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> writes:
In UK English there are tow words spelled, but not pronounced the same
Router.
1. From the French route, meaning path or road, and applied to
networking equipment that decide where to send packets of
data. Pronounce 'rooter', to rhyme with root.
2. From Latin rout meaning something that causes a rout, pronounced
'rowter' which is a wood working milling tool that turns solid wood
into sawdust and shavings
Or a cataclysmic defeat or what a pig does looking for roots.
US 'English' does not distinguish the two
I recall a long-ago conversation with an American colleague about the
pronunciation of ‘router’, in which he proposed that since it was an
American-made router, it should be pronounced the American way, even by
British English speakers.
By that reasoning, most routers should be pronounced the Chinese way.
On 08/03/26 16:43, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
But in the USA, at least among the folks I used to talk to, it was a
Sod-ering iron.
That's even worse. I don't want any hot metal sodding my ring.
On 08/03/26 10:07, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 21:49:36 +0100, guido wugi wrote:
Op 5/03/2026 om 22:00 schreef Lawrence D'Oliveiro:
Can anybody explain "Nucular"?
As I've mentioned here once, I'm pretty sure I've heard Bush jr.
talk about New Killer weapons.
Ah! "New Killer weapons" actually seems like a good excuse for
saying it that way!
Not so good when you're trying to promote "New Killer power", though
There was recent news about OpenAI teaming up with Trump to produce
killer robots. As an engineer, I was pleased to hear about an open
letter from 200 engineers at OpenAI and Google saying that they refused
to do it.
There was another way they could have saved their consciences. Design
the robots, but put a rule in the software to say they can't kill anyone except Trump or Hegseth.
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 06:22:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/03/2026 04:37, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 03:01:57 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:
On 7 Mar 2026 04:32:05 GMT, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would
understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of the >>>>> US,
sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
As in "you-awl"?
No as in "I put a kwaut uv awl in da cah."
Out of interest, how may quarts in a US gallon?
Four. Before Canada went off the deep end with metric I always thought I
was getting a bargain when I bought their 5 quart gasoline.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.40 skrev rbowman:
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of air. >>> One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as she
likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so much a
question of previous language as the genetic abality to move your tongue >>> in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish-speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem, and
dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay attention.
Where did you grow up? When I went to school some of my classmates
couldn't pronounce the th-sound. My guess is that few Danes, if any,
have that problem today.
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 07:39:14 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.40 skrev rbowman:
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of
air.
One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as she
likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so much a >>>> question of previous language as the genetic abality to move your
tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish-speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem, and
dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay attention.
Where did you grow up? When I went to school some of my classmates
couldn't pronounce the th-sound. My guess is that few Danes, if any,
have that problem today.
Upstate NY.
Den 08.03.2026 kl. 07.02 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Most Spanish speakers that I know (and I know lots, including my
wife, mostly
in Chile and Spain) have difficulty saying "a squirrel" without
making it
sound like "an esquirrel".
I like that. I'd make that English if I could.
A small esquire?
- The British Imperial fluid ounce is equal to 28.413 millilitres,
while the US Customary fluid ounce is 29.573 ml.
- The British Imperial pint is 568.261 ml (20 fluid ounces), while the
US Customary pint is 473.176 ml (16 fl oz).
They should go whole hog and implement Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics.
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.53 skrev Peter Moylan:
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
The letter 'r' is a problem for anyone learning a foreign language. It
seems to be different in each language.
I use a Danish r in both English and German. It has not been pointed out
to me as an error.
Le 08/03/2026 à 07:16, Peter Moylan a écrit :
On 08/03/26 16:43, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
But in the USA, at least among the folks I used to talk to, it >>> was a
Sod-ering iron.
That's even worse. I don't want any hot metal sodding my ring.
It's a right sod when the sodding soddering iron won't sodder.
(Leaves one in a state of flux.)
On 08/03/26 13:31, Cryptoengineer wrote:I suspect you were thinking of this one:
On 3/7/2026 7:12 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 3/7/2026 10:12 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 14.46 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Danes have less sense of humour than Germans...Danish= German with a seasick accent
No.
No. Your comparison is just so way off that it's not funny.
This is funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykj3Kpm3O0g
Try this:
https://satwcomic.com/language-barrier
This one is more on-point:
https://satwcomic.com/language-lesson
Funny, but not what I expected. I thought you were going to point us to
the FUNEX language lesson.
(Sorry, no URL. I can't find it on the web.
Den 08.03.2026 kl. 08.39 skrev rbowman:
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem, and >>>> dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay attention.
To the best of my knowledge there are American dialects where that is >standard - Bronx?
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 14:02:03 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
As a Dane living in California, I correspond in Danish and (US)
English, so keyboards have always been a challenge; both the
mechanical aspect and the key mapping aspects. ... Years ago, I
settled on a US keyboard and "United States - International" keymap.
There is an almost identical keymap for Linux, which I use. But
there are occasional nuisances.
Just today I found that a new GPU driver (AMD Adrenaline) on my Windows
system had hijacked ALT+l (Danish ø) to turn on GPU performance logging,
and it took a whle to figure out how to get it to not do that.
But more commonly, I find that the CAPS key gets accidentally
touched when I meant SHIFT (non-locking), and the Windows version
needs me to touch CAPS again to get back, while on Linux I can reset
it by touching (and releasing) SHIFT. I would much rather have it be
inoperable (dead) on both. How do I do that on each? (And what idiot
invented that CAPS lock function? It might make sense on some
cyrillic keyboards, where the shifted position is latin letters?)
On Linux (or *nix, generally), you can define a Compose key <https://wiki.wlug.org.nz/ComposeKey> for typing a whole range of
non-ASCII characters. Why not map that function to Caps Lock, and
solve two problems at one stroke?
Here’s my attempt to type the subject line (no copy-and-paste, honest):
Rødgrød med fløde på
ø ← compose-o-slash (or compose-slash-o)
å ← compose-o-a (compose-a-a also works)
Maybe slower than having dedicated keys for those characters, but still
... more versatile. ;)
On 2026-03-07 15:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-03-07 18:00, [email protected] wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <[email protected]d> posted:
Most Spanish speakers that I know (and I know lots, including my
wife, mostly
in Chile and Spain) have difficulty saying "a squirrel" without
making it
sound like "an esquirrel".
Ah, you mean the first 's' letter without an 'es'. Yes, I understand
that one. I can. My relatives in Canada noticed me doing it correctly
and told me; many Spaniards can't. True.
Like in the word Spain.
I remember a line in a sitcom called "Home Improvement". Tim's wife was
(I think) taking Spanish lessons, and she was saying something about her husband, calling him "mi bozo". The instructor corrected her, saying
it's "mi esposo". She answer something to the effect that no, he was definitely a bozo.
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:44:16 +0000, Phil wrote:
And whilst I stick to aluminium (and still insist on sulphur, even
though that one is lost), I have to acknowledge that even over here we
have alumina and not aluminia.
I tend to write 'sulphur' although I'm not sure why. The spelling must
have been common in the '50s. I also use 'phantasy' on alternate Tuesdays. Again, consistency' 'Fantom of the Opera' doesn't get it.
Den 08.03.2026 kl. 00.22 skrev Peter Moylan:
There was another way they could have saved their consciences. Design
the robots, but put a rule in the software to say they can't kill anyone
except Trump or Hegseth.
You haven't seen "Westworld"?
In article <JQ4rR.5$[email protected]>,
Charlie Gibbs <[email protected]d> wrote:
They should go whole hog and implement Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics.
The impossibility of this - long recognised, I think - is that the
laws have to be (as Asimov puts it) "built most deeply into a robot's positronic brain", while concepts like "human" and "injure" are only
ever likely to appear at the highest levels of an artificial
intelligence.
On 08/03/2026 05:39, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
And you know that if you want to stop the LBGTQ+ people from being
born the answer is simply that Heterosexuals need to stop having sex.
After all we all come from that activity.
The LBGT/radical feminism. propaganda is so strong that most young
people are scared or ashamed of heterosexual sex.
On 08/03/2026 07:32, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 06:22:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/03/2026 04:37, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 03:01:57 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:
On 7 Mar 2026 04:32:05 GMT, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:49:26 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I remember my inability to say "oil" in a way that a Briton would >>>>>>> understand. Took me years.
I don't know how the Brits say it but 'awl' shows up in parts of
the US,
sometimes with a hint of a wandering 'r'.
As in "you-awl"?
No as in "I put a kwaut uv awl in da cah."
Out of interest, how may quarts in a US gallon?
Four. Before Canada went off the deep end with metric I always thought
I was getting a bargain when I bought their 5 quart gasoline.
That is off, because there are four quarts in an imperial gallon, too.
Lots of UK people cant pronounce the soft c and s sound/.
Luthy Worthley being one...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QTRYPcaGUo
On 2026-03-08, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 08/03/2026 05:39, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
And you know that if you want to stop the LBGTQ+ people from
being
born the answer is simply that Heterosexuals need to stop having sex.
After all we all come from that activity.
The LBGT/radical feminism. propaganda is so strong that most young
people are scared or ashamed of heterosexual sex.
Maybe that will filter out the people who aren't smart enough to see
through the bullshit, reversing the trend toward dumbing down the
populace. The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
While "fosforus" sits right down near the zero line.
On 2026-03-07, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 11:02:32 +0000, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
What's wanted is a bit of Hwyl. Like the Welsh Rugby team in Ireland
last night. (probably early a.m. for you)
Welsh has all the consonants all other known languages dropped. I read a
pronunciation guide once and promptly forgot it.
Den 08.03.2026 kl. 08.39 skrev rbowman:
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem,
and dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay
attention.
To the best of my knowledge there are American dialects where that is standard - Bronx?
On 08/03/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 07:39:14 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.40 skrev rbowman:
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of
air.
One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as she
likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so much >>>>> a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move your
tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish-speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem,
and dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay
attention.
Where did you grow up? When I went to school some of my classmates
couldn't pronounce the th-sound. My guess is that few Danes, if any,
have that problem today.
Upstate NY.
Ah. Ok. Isn't that Bronx speak?
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 11:42:00 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/03/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 07:39:14 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.40 skrev rbowman:
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of >>>>> air.
One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as she >>>>> likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so much >>>>> a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move your >>>>> tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a
Spanish-speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem,
and dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay
attention.
Where did you grow up? When I went to school some of my classmates
couldn't pronounce the th-sound. My guess is that few Danes, if any,
have that problem today.
Upstate NY.
Ah. Ok. Isn't that Bronx speak?
The really noticeable 'da' was Bronx 60 years ago. Today the Bronx is 8% white so you'd better speak ebonics or Spanish.
I don't have the phonetics vocabulary but if I'm paying attention to 'th' the tip of my tongue touches the bottom of my upper teeth, otherwise it's the gum above the teeth and the 'h' gets less attention. If I actually say dese and dose it's another sound entirely.
In article <JQ4rR.5$[email protected]>,
Charlie Gibbs <[email protected]d> wrote:
They should go whole hog and implement Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics.
The impossibility of this - long recognised, I think - is that the
laws have to be (as Asimov puts it) "built most deeply into a robot's positronic brain", while concepts like "human" and "injure" are only
ever likely to appear at the highest levels of an artificial
intelligence.
I don't know any ebonics speakers, but none of the Spanish speakers I've known
have any difficulty with /θ/ (unvoiced th) in English, even though they don't,
in most cases, use it when they speak Spanish, as /θ/ is only used in a part of Spain (though admittedly an important part, Madrid and further north). Voiced
th, /ð/, occurs more widely, and likewise produces no problems in English. Few
French or German speakers can manage /ð/ or /θ/.
I don't know any ebonics speakers,
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 13:57:58 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.01 skrev Carlos E.R.:
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weeklyNo, I don't think it is genetic. It is a learned ability when we are
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of
air. One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as
she likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so
much a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move
your tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a >>> Spanish- speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
babies.
To the best of my knowledge my daughter has never practised the sound.
It doesn't exist in Danish and she has not learnt Spanish or another language with the rr-sound. The same goes for my grandson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QXJ3OXWaOY
No way can I get that purring sound out of 'Messer' and other words with 'r'. It might be a stylistic affectation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeQG5rv592Q
Whole different style but you don't hear a rolling 'r' in 'er', 'trägt' and other words that are in the 1931 movie version.
I'm using the windows key for compose.
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the
early 60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise, accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
Every once in a while, I'd overhear her on the phone with a friend
or relative, thought, and she'd break into what now call Ebonics*.
The first time I heard that, I thought someone else was using her
phone.
She had one person who called her that must have been Jamacian,
because she'd switch to pure Jamacian English.
Yes, a word that seems to cause particular problems for quite a few
German speakers is 'clothes'.
On 08/03/2026 06:45, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.53 skrev Peter Moylan:
Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
The letter 'r' is a problem for anyone learning a foreign language. It
seems to be different in each language.
I use a Danish r in both English and German. It has not been pointed out to
me as an error.
It is a component of some British dialects. Mostly Northern English and Scottish
English is a mongrel derived from Celtic, Romance and Germanic languages. And then heavily re buggered in the USA by immigrants..
Every once in a while, I'd overhear her on the phone with a friend or relative, thought, and she'd break into what now call Ebonics*. The
first time I heard that, I thought someone else was using her phone.
On 07/03/26 23:20, Sn!pe wrote:
My Danish ex-wife could not say "ashtray", instead saying "atchray";
and likewise "thashed" instead of "thatched".
A pity you can't introduce her to an Irish tatcher.
On 08/03/26 16:30, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
We are not breaking up states but allying for trade with a more
sensible set of nations, than the present USA under the Orange bully
who only loves Tariffs.
I remember hearing recently that Trump had ony 50 days to get his new
tafiffs approved by Congress. Is the bill making any progress through Congress?
On Sat, 07 Mar 2026 16:35:34 -0500, Tony Cooper wrote:
We (in the US) have, or had, RR addresses, but we'd say "rowt" and not
"root". Google says there are still RR## addresses, but I've never
noticed one.
Maybe in your part of the US :)
On 2026-03-08, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 08/03/2026 05:39, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
And you know that if you want to stop the LBGTQ+ people from being >>> born the answer is simply that Heterosexuals need to stop having sex.
After all we all come from that activity.
The LBGT/radical feminism. propaganda is so strong that most young
people are scared or ashamed of heterosexual sex.
On 08/03/26 16:43, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/7/26 19:13, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 08/03/26 10:40, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 05:52:06 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
By the way, is it true that USians do *not* pronounce “solder” to >>>>> rhyme
with “colder”?
Only if you pronounce 'colder' as 'codder'. A soul-dering iron sounds >>>> perverse.
A sodding iron sounds even more perverse. And very painful.
But in the USA, at least among the folks I used to talk to, it was a
Sod-ering iron.
That's even worse. I don't want any hot metal sodding my ring.
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 14:19:48 +1100, Peter Moylan <[email protected]>
wrote:
While "fosforus" sits right down near the zero line.
How about fenix?
On 08/03/2026 03:35, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 08/03/26 13:31, Cryptoengineer wrote:
I suspect you were thinking of this one:This one is more on-point:
https://satwcomic.com/language-lesson
Funny, but not what I expected. I thought you were going to point
us to the FUNEX language lesson.
(Sorry, no URL. I can't find it on the web.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-mX9T2qyIQ>
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
Every once in a while, I'd overhear her on the phone with a friend
or relative, thought, and she'd break into what now call Ebonics*.
The first time I heard that, I thought someone else was using her
phone.
She had one person who called her that must have been Jamacian,
because she'd switch to pure Jamacian English.
This is so common, the linguists have a term for it: it’s called “code-switching”.
In article <10ojmjv$2ashr$[email protected]>,
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
- The British Imperial fluid ounce is equal to 28.413 millilitres,
while the US Customary fluid ounce is 29.573 ml.
- The British Imperial pint is 568.261 ml (20 fluid ounces), while the
US Customary pint is 473.176 ml (16 fl oz).
Which means that a pint isn't a pound even in America, let alone the
world around. Until you get to about 97C anyway.
So, how many pints in a quart?
Ah,
"A pint in the United Kingdom is bigger than a pint in the United
States. The UK pint is 20 fluid ounces, while the US pint fills up 16
fl oz. However, this translation is not that simple, as fluid ounces
do not equal one another across the Atlantic. Here is the breakdown
of volume between the two countries:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the
early 60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise,
accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
When I hear the word “accentless”, I reach for my ... copy of “The >Story Of English”. At any rate, something heavy and hardbound. Mass >matters.
On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 08:49:42 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Even younger I lived on farms in the countryside and mail was directed
to route (rout) #Whatever. I use "whatever" because I was very young
and do not recall the numbers assigned but something like Rural Route
#2.
I remember RFD (Rural Free Delivery) in that context.
Now I love chips(crisps in some environs) especially potato with
moderate salt but I love strawberries as well and i can afford
neither. Trump has made everything cost more, food or its
approximations. Now he is working on gasoline and other petroleum
products as he murders Iranians.
Den 08.03.2026 kl. 07.02 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Most Spanish speakers that I know (and I know lots, including my wife,
mostly
in Chile and Spain) have difficulty saying "a squirrel" without making it >>> sound like "an esquirrel".
I like that. I'd make that English if I could.
A small esquire?
On 09/03/26 09:02, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Now I love chips(crisps in some environs) especially potato with
moderate salt but I love strawberries as well and i can afford
neither. Trump has made everything cost more, food or its
approximations. Now he is working on gasoline and other petroleum
products as he murders Iranians.
Trump thought he could force regime change in Iran by assassinating the
top man. This works only for a dictatorship. Just because the USA is currently a dictatorship, he assumed that other countries are like that
too.
The latest guesses by the Iran-watchers say that the new leader of Iran
will be more of a hard-liner than the old one, so Trump has achieved the opposite of what he intended.
His mistake in this case was to have incompetent advisers. What he needs
to do is go through the list of all Cabinet members, and fire all the yes-men. He won't do it, though.
His mistake in this case was to have incompetent advisers. What he needs
to do is go through the list of all Cabinet members, and fire all the yes-men. He won't do it, though.
bliss - Pam Bondi or JFK Jr. should be the next to be moved up to
higher
salaries and less interference with their departments.
On 09/03/26 04:27, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 14:19:48 +1100, Peter Moylan <[email protected]>
wrote:
While "fosforus" sits right down near the zero line.
How about fenix?
No, thanks. I've been exposed to too many operating systems already.
My second son was code-switching at the age of 4. He switched between
French and English, sometimes in the middle of a sentence, depending on
who he was facing at the time.
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 16:42:38 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
bliss - Pam Bondi or JFK Jr. should be the next to be moved up to
higher
salaries and less interference with their departments.
Even on the right there is muttering about 'hey Pam, are you ever going to prosecute anybody for anything?'.
RFK Jr. JFK Jr is one of the good Kennedys.
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 09:20:57 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 09/03/26 04:27, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 14:19:48 +1100, Peter Moylan <[email protected]>
wrote:
While "fosforus" sits right down near the zero line.
How about fenix?
No, thanks. I've been exposed to too many operating systems already.
They make pretty good flashlights, though.
On 09/03/26 09:02, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Now I love chips(crisps in some environs) especially potato with
moderate salt but I love strawberries as well and i can afford
neither. Trump has made everything cost more, food or its
approximations. Now he is working on gasoline and other petroleum
products as he murders Iranians.
Trump thought he could force regime change in Iran by assassinating the
top man. This works only for a dictatorship. Just because the USA is currently a dictatorship, he assumed that other countries are like that too.
The latest guesses by the Iran-watchers say that the new leader of Iran
will be more of a hard-liner than the old one, so Trump has achieved the opposite of what he intended.
His mistake in this case was to have incompetent advisers.
What he needs
to do is go through the list of all Cabinet members, and fire all the yes-men. He won't do it, though.
For me, and many of the people I've been around, "rowt" and "root" are interchangeable. Certainly many of us would say we get our kicks on
Root Sixty-six, but the rowt back to the interstate is important, too.
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 20:46:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DÿOliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the early
60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise,
accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
When I hear the word “accentless”, I reach for my ... copy of “The Story
Of English”. At any rate, something heavy and hardbound. Mass matters.
I assumed Tony meant "accentless" as perceived in Chicago. I once knew a bloke from Chicago, and I assume he spoke with a Chcago accent, or
perhaps with what some might call "Mid-Western", but I don't think I'd
be able to identify it if I heard it today, other than as coming from somewhere in the US.
[ Trump ]
His mistake in this case was to have incompetent advisers. What he needs
to do is go through the list of all Cabinet members, and fire all the >yes-men. He won't do it, though.
On Saturday, rbowman yelped out that:
On Sat, 07 Mar 2026 16:35:34 -0500, Tony Cooper wrote:
We (in the US) have, or had, RR addresses, but we'd say "rowt" and not
"root". Google says there are still RR## addresses, but I've never
noticed one.
Maybe in your part of the US :)
And 30-odd years ago I had RR address and a 15 minute commute to a high
tech company job.
For me, and many of the people I've been around, "rowt" and "root" are interchangeable. Certainly many of us would say we get our kicks on
Root Sixty-six, but the rowt back to the interstate is important, too.
The tools are indeed rowters, whether in the shop or the wiring closet. However, that's a lousy spelling of that pronunciation ... row has the
wrong O sound. But so does boat, and I can't think of an example of the right sound that doesn't get spelled "ou" ... shout out if you can think
of one. Oh, maybe "now" and "crown", but not "crow". For you IPAers, that's aU aʊ and ow, for ASCII-IPA (AUE/Kirschenbaum style), official, and "traditional American". (The Merriam-Webster column doesn't paste correctly in this noosereeder.)
rbowman <[email protected]> posted:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 11:42:00 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/03/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 07:39:14 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.40 skrev rbowman:
I have learnt a bit of Spanish in a course of one year, weekly
sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of >>>>>>> air.
One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as she >>>>>>> likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so much >>>>>>> a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move your >>>>>>> tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a >>>>>>> Spanish-speaking country I would have learnt through practise.
As a kid I had problems with 'th'. I'm still closer to 'dese, dem, >>>>>> and dose' than some, or Keit rather than Kieth unless I pay
attention.
Where did you grow up? When I went to school some of my classmates
couldn't pronounce the th-sound. My guess is that few Danes, if any, >>>>> have that problem today.
Upstate NY.
Ah. Ok. Isn't that Bronx speak?
The really noticeable 'da' was Bronx 60 years ago. Today the Bronx is 8%
white so you'd better speak ebonics or Spanish.
I don't know any ebonics speakers, but none of the Spanish speakers I've known
have any difficulty with /θ/ (unvoiced th) in English, even though they don't,
in most cases, use it when they speak Spanish, as /θ/ is only used in a part of Spain (though admittedly an important part, Madrid and further north). Voiced
th, /ð/, occurs more widely, and likewise produces no problems in English.
French or German speakers can manage /ð/ or /θ/.
I don't have the phonetics vocabulary but if I'm paying attention to 'th'
the tip of my tongue touches the bottom of my upper teeth, otherwise it's
the gum above the teeth and the 'h' gets less attention. If I actually say >> dese and dose it's another sound entirely.
On 09/03/26 07:46, Lawrence D�Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
Every once in a while, I'd overhear her on the phone with a friend
or relative, thought, and she'd break into what now call Ebonics*.
The first time I heard that, I thought someone else was using her
phone.
She had one person who called her that must have been Jamacian,
because she'd switch to pure Jamacian English.
This is so common, the linguists have a term for it: it�s called
�code-switching�.
My second son was code-switching at the age of 4. He switched between
French and English, sometimes in the middle of a sentence, depending on
who he was facing at the time.
I did it in a more subtle way. My francophone ex-wife, whose English was >excellent, claimed that she could not understand me when I was speaking
with my siblings. Apparently I slipped back into the English of
Victoria, although I've lived in New South Wales for most of my life. I
was not aware that I was changing my language, and anyway most people
can't hear any difference in the speech of those two (adjacent) states.
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 20:46:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D�Oliveiro
<[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the
early 60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise,
accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
When I hear the word �accentless�, I reach for my ... copy of �The
Story Of English�. At any rate, something heavy and hardbound. Mass >>matters.
I assumed Tony meant "accentless" as perceived in Chicago. I once knew
a bloke from Chicago, and I assume he spoke with a Chcago accent, or
perhaps with what some might call "Mid-Western", but I don't think I'd
be able to identify it if I heard it today, other than as coming from >somewhere in the US.
I have always understood that "code switching" was switching from
one (often) regional accent to another.
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 01:16:14 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 20:46:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D�Oliveiro
<[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the early >>>> 60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise,
accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
When I hear the word �accentless�, I reach for my ... copy of �The Story >>>Of English�. At any rate, something heavy and hardbound. Mass matters.
I assumed Tony meant "accentless" as perceived in Chicago. I once knew a
bloke from Chicago, and I assume he spoke with a Chcago accent, or
perhaps with what some might call "Mid-Western", but I don't think I'd
be able to identify it if I heard it today, other than as coming from
somewhere in the US.
Kevin Costner. He took a lot of crap for his accent in 'Robin Hood'.
Most people in Chicago (and I lived there several years) speak
accentless English. By that, I mean even a linguist would have
trouble determining where the person was from.
[...] Kevin Costner. He took a lot of crap for his accent in 'Robin Hood'. I've mixed feelings about that. The pseudo-Norse accents in 'The Vikings' were a little much. Otoh Ken Loach prides himself on local color which meant 'The Navigators' was strictly subtitles for me. 'Train Spotting' was too but I later read one of the actors was a Brit who came up with a completely unintelligible Glasgow accent.
I saw 'Sexy Beast' in a theater and as I left I heard several couples wishing it had had subtitles.--
I don't know if it had typical Australian accents but I had no problem with the 'Mystery Road' films except for one character that I thought was Molly until I saw it spelled on a missing persons poster. However the first 'Mad Max' supposedly was dubbed for the US release.
The actor most famous for not losing his native accent was Tony
Curtis who brought his Bronx accent into every role.
Scotland is part of Britain and Scots tended to identify as British
(as well as Scottish) ...
On 2026-03-08 13:51, [email protected] wrote:
[...] I don't know any ebonics speakers, but none of the Spanish speakers I've known have any difficulty with /θ/ (unvoiced th) in English, even though they don't, in most cases, use it when they speak Spanish, as /θ/ is only used in a part of Spain (though admittedly an important part, Madrid and further north). Voiced th, /ð/, occurs more widely, and likewise produces no problems in English.
Which one gives us "Barthelona"?
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 06:16:34 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Scotland is part of Britain and Scots tended to identify as British
(as well as Scottish) ...
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though, isn’t there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language, whereas lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language (think Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 06:16:34 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Scotland is part of Britain and Scots tended to identify as British
(as well as Scottish) ...
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though, isn’t there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language, whereas
lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language (think
Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
I've been exposed to too many operating systems already.
JFK Jr. is dead sadly and the dead find it easier to be good.
bliss - Talking about the dead? "Country Joe" has passed at 84... <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/3/8/2372269/-Iconic-anti-war-protest-singer-Country-Joe-McDonald-dies-at-84>
The actor who come to my mind for failed attempts at an accent in movies
is Dick Van Dyke in "Marry Poppins". The actor most famous for not
losing his native accent was Tony Curtis who brought his Bronx accent
into every role.
Have you been to (or had dealings with) Atlantic Canada? How did you
find the accent there, if so?
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though, isn’t there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language, whereas
lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language (think
Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
I have heard this described as "broadcaster voice".
On 09/03/26 15:49, Tony Cooper wrote:
Most people in Chicago (and I lived there several years) speak
accentless English. By that, I mean even a linguist would have
trouble determining where the person was from.
Most people, even non-linguists, can tell they're from America.
Ar an t-ochtú lá de mí Márta, scríobh The Natural Philosopher:
> On 08/03/2026 06:45, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.53 skrev Peter Moylan:
> >
> >>> Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
> >>> Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
> >>
> >> The letter 'r' is a problem for anyone learning a foreign language. It
> >> seems to be different in each language.
> >
> > I use a Danish r in both English and German. It has not been pointed out to
> > me as an error.
>
> It is a component of some British dialects. Mostly Northern English and Scottish
Uvular trill for <r> does not arise in the pronunciation of any native community of English spekers. Bertel has not clarified, but his <r> is likely uvular. The relevant Scottish dialects (I’m not aware of any Northern England
dialects with this feature) have an alveolar trill, the <rr> of spanish.
I have always understood that "code switching" was switching from one
(often) regional accent to another. My example above, and someone who reverts to the regional accent when returning to the area after living somewhere where that accent was suppressed.
Switch from French to English, though, would not be "code-switching"
to me. If so, there are thousands of code-switchers here in Orlando
who speak either English or Puerto Rican Spanish depending on who they
are facing.
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 06:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though, isn’t
there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language, whereas
lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language (think
Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
Twa corbies?
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 00:31:57 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
I have always understood that "code switching" was switching from
one (often) regional accent to another.
It’s more styles of language. Like moving between something perceived
as being “higher-class”, versus something more “informal”.
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 19:51:54 GMT, [email protected] <[email protected]d> wrote:
I don't know any ebonics speakers,
Using "knew" as meaning someone who was in my company quite a bit...
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the early
60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise,
accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
Every once in a while, I'd overhear her on the phone with a friend or relative, thought, and she'd break into what now call Ebonics*. The
first time I heard that, I thought someone else was using her phone.
She had one person who called her that must have been Jamacian,
because she'd switch to pure Jamacian English.
In the office she was rather formal and reserved, but a completely
different persona when on the phone with a friend or relative.
Being National Woman's Month, which has followed Black History Month--
in the US, makes me remember her as being someone who would have been
an executive at the company if not for her color and gender.
*A term that was not coined until 1973. We might have used AAVE in
the early 60s, but I don't remember that term used by the general
public in those days. It sounds ugly today, but I suppose we referred
to as "Colored English". "Black" and "African American" didn't begin
to generally replace "Colored" until the mid-60s, but "African
American" did exist as a term.
The actor who come to my mind for failed attempts at an accent in
movies is Dick Van Dyke in "Marry Poppins". The actor most famous for
not losing his native accent was Tony Curtis who brought his Bronx
accent into every role.
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 06:16:34 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Scotland is part of Britain and Scots tended to identify as British
(as well as Scottish) ...
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though,
isn’t there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language,
whereas lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language
(think Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
On 2026-03-08 13:51, [email protected] wrote:
I don't know any ebonics speakers, but none of the Spanish speakers I've known
have any difficulty with /θ/ (unvoiced th) in English, even though they don't,
in most cases, use it when they speak Spanish, as /θ/ is only used in a part
of Spain (though admittedly an important part, Madrid and further north). Voiced
th, /ð/, occurs more widely, and likewise produces no problems in English.
Which one gives us "Barthelona"?
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 06:16:34 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Have you been to (or had dealings with) Atlantic Canada? How did you find the accent there, if so?
I've only been to New Brunswick, including Grand Manan, and Nova Scotia. It was a long time ago but I don't remember any strong accents. I've also been around the Gaspe Peninsula, but that's Quebec.
On 9/03/2026 9:54 a.m., Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Ar an t-ochtú lá de mí Márta, scríobh The Natural Philosopher:
> On 08/03/2026 06:45, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> > Den 07.03.2026 kl. 23.53 skrev Peter Moylan:
> >
> >>> Similarly, English speaking people have problems saying "Jorge" in
> >>> Spanish, or the double "rr". :-D
> >>
> >> The letter 'r' is a problem for anyone learning a foreign language. It
> >> seems to be different in each language.
> >
> > I use a Danish r in both English and German. It has not been pointed out to
> > me as an error.
>
> It is a component of some British dialects. Mostly Northern English and Scottish
Uvular trill for <r> does not arise in the pronunciation of any native community of English spekers. Bertel has not clarified, but his <r> is likely
uvular. The relevant Scottish dialects (I’m not aware of any Northern England
dialects with this feature) have an alveolar trill, the <rr> of spanish.
There is, or was, a uvular pronunciation of /r/ in the North of England, but most often a fricative, only occasionally a trill:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northumbrian_burr
On 3/8/26 09:23, Charlie Gibbs wrote:That is an uniquely blinkered USA perspective.
On 2026-03-08, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 08/03/2026 05:39, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
And you know that if you want to stop the LBGTQ+ people from being
born the answer is simply that Heterosexuals need to stop having sex.
After all we all come from that activity.
The LBGT/radical feminism. propaganda is so strong that most young
people are scared or ashamed of heterosexual sex.
Snip
I wonder what the hell you are talking about. Young people are more likely afraid of getting married and having children because of the fiscal aspects of getting a job, a home and raising children. It is so expensive these days due to Republican approved activities such as
the financial institutions buying up homes and rental properties, the replacement of workers with machines, the failure of the Congress to
tax the most wealthy at reasonable rates, and of course the damned
Tariffs.
FDR saved the USA from going further toward Right Wing
Fascism but susequent presidents have done the contrary and
Right Wing or Left Wing, Fascism is to be avoided as it is not
good for women or children, the air we breath and the water
we drink to say little of food and psuedo-food called snacks
by that industry.
Now I love chips(crisps in some environs) especially potato
with moderate salt but I love strawberries as well and i can afford neither. Trump has made everything cost more, food or its
approximations. Now he is working on gasoline and other petroleum
products as he murders Iranians.
bliss--
Trump thought he could force regime change in Iran by assassinating the
top man. This works only for a dictatorship. Just because the USA is currently a dictatorship, he assumed that other countries are like that
too.
The latest guesses by the Iran-watchers say that the new leader of Iran
will be more of a hard-liner than the old one, so Trump has achieved the opposite of what he intended.
His mistake in this case was to have incompetent advisers. What he needs
to do is go through the list of all Cabinet members, and fire all the yes-men. He won't do it, though.
He invents the Shield of America
to give Kristi Noam another place to make a hideous mess.
bliss - Talking about the dead? "Country Joe" has passed at 84... <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/3/8/2372269/-Iconic-anti-war-protest-singer-Country-Joe-McDonald-dies-at-84>
On 09/03/26 04:27, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 14:19:48 +1100, Peter Moylan <[email protected]>
wrote:
While "fosforus" sits right down near the zero line.
How about fenix?
No, thanks. I've been exposed to too many operating systems already.
On 08/03/2026 19:51, [email protected] wrote:
I don't know any ebonics speakers, but none of the Spanish speakers
I've known
have any difficulty with /θ/ (unvoiced th) in English, even though
they don't,
in most cases, use it when they speak Spanish, as /θ/ is only used in
a part
of Spain (though admittedly an important part, Madrid and further
north). Voiced
th, /ð/, occurs more widely, and likewise produces no problems in
English. Few
French or German speakers can manage /ð/ or /θ/.
Yes, a word that seems to cause particular problems for quite a few
German speakers is 'clothes'.
I don't know if it was just a Bollywood thing but a lot of the dialog switched from Hindi to English midstream.
I later read one of the actors was a Brit who came up with aAll Glasgow accents are unintelligible.
completely unintelligible Glasgow accent.
On 09/03/2026 00:58, rbowman wrote:
I later read one of the actors was a Brit who came up with a
completely unintelligible Glasgow accent.
All Glasgow accents are unintelligible.
'Trainspotting; was a bit too real for me. I used to know people like that.
On 09/03/2026 08:08, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 06:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though, isn’t >>> there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language, whereas
lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language (think
Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
Twa corbies?
sat upon a wa?
Le 09/03/2026 à 05:42, Peter Moylan a écrit :
On 09/03/26 15:49, Tony Cooper wrote:
Most people in Chicago (and I lived there several years) speak
accentless English. By that, I mean even a linguist would have
trouble determining where the person was from.
Most people, even non-linguists, can tell they're from America.
Other people have accents; one never does oneself.
IMHO, languages and dialects often have distinctive 'musics'. One can
tell that someone is speaking AmE or BrE by this musicality, even if one can't distinguish the words.
Language or dialect? Some say a language is a dialect with an army and a navy. This makes BrE and AmE separate languages. More often it's a
political thing. Does one want to emphasise commonality or difference?
To Nationalists, Scots is a language. To me, it's a dialect.
"Wee, sleekit, cowrin, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie! ..." Burns.
"The sweat wis lashing oafay Sick Boy; he wis trembling ..." - Welsh.
Aye, that's English, right enough.
Bertel Lund Hansen was thinking very hard :
Den 08.03.2026 kl. 07.02 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Most Spanish speakers that I know (and I know lots, including my
wife, mostly
in Chile and Spain) have difficulty saying "a squirrel" without
making it
sound like "an esquirrel".
I like that. I'd make that English if I could.
A small esquire?
Too small to bring you your armor.
-d
Ar an naoiú lá de mí Márta, scríobh The Natural Philosopher:
> On 09/03/2026 00:58, rbowman wrote:
> > I later read one of the actors was a Brit who came up with a
> > completely unintelligible Glasgow accent.
>
> All Glasgow accents are unintelligible.
>
> 'Trainspotting; was a bit too real for me. I used to know people like that.
Any of them still alive?
Transpotting was set in Edinburgh. I can't comment on
whether Miller's accent was specifically Glaswegian.
Ar an naoiú lá de mí Márta, scríobh The Natural Philosopher:
> On 09/03/2026 00:58, rbowman wrote:
> > I later read one of the actors was a Brit who came up with a
> > completely unintelligible Glasgow accent.
>
> All Glasgow accents are unintelligible.
>
> 'Trainspotting; was a bit too real for me. I used to know people like that.
Any of them still alive?
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 06:16:34 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Have you been to (or had dealings with) Atlantic Canada? How did you
find the accent there, if so?
I've only been to New Brunswick, including Grand Manan, and Nova Scotia.
It was a long time ago but I don't remember any strong accents. I've also been around the Gaspe Peninsula, but that's Quebec.
I can usually handle accents but I had real problems with north
Georgia white speech, mostly with older people.
Apparently I slipped back into the English of Victoria, although I've
lived in New South Wales for most of my life. I was not aware that I
was changing my language, and anyway most people can't hear any
difference in the speech of those two (adjacent) states.
On 09/03/2026 00:24, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
bliss - Talking about the dead? "Country Joe" has passed at 84... >> <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/3/8/2372269/-Iconic-anti-war-protest-singer-Country-Joe-McDonald-dies-at-84>
One hit wonder, but it was a good one hit.
Saw him live ion Loindon back in the day
Young people are more likely afraid of getting married and having
children because of the fiscal aspects of getting a job, a home and
raising children.
Ar an naoiú lá de mí Márta, scríobh rbowman:
> [...] Kevin Costner. He took a lot of crap for his accent in 'Robin Hood'.
> I've mixed feelings about that. The pseudo-Norse accents in 'The Vikings'
> were a little much. Otoh Ken Loach prides himself on local color which meant
> 'The Navigators' was strictly subtitles for me. 'Train Spotting' was too but
> I later read one of the actors was a Brit who came up with a completely
> unintelligible Glasgow accent.
You mean Jonny Lee Miller, who is English. Scotland is part of Britain and Scots tended to identify as British (as well as Scottish), especially during the Empire, but that is waning: https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2024/05/22/after-britain-the-collapse-of-british-identity-in-scotland/
Transpotting was set in Edinburgh. I can’t comment on whether Miller’s accent
was specifically Glaswegian.
Have you been to (or had dealings with) Atlantic Canada? How did you find the accent there, if so?
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 01:16:14 +0200, Steve Hayes
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 20:46:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DÿOliveiro
<[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the
early 60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise,
accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
When I hear the word “accentless”, I reach for my ... copy of “The >>> Story Of English”. At any rate, something heavy and hardbound. Mass
matters.
I assumed Tony meant "accentless" as perceived in Chicago. I once knew
a bloke from Chicago, and I assume he spoke with a Chcago accent, or
perhaps with what some might call "Mid-Western", but I don't think I'd
be able to identify it if I heard it today, other than as coming from
somewhere in the US.
That's too generalized, Steve. The "Chicago Accent" is mostly heard
spoken by blue collar and working class Chicagoans from the South Side
of Chicago. Residents of, say, Bridgeport where the Daley family is
from.
Most people in Chicago (and I lived there several years) speak--
accentless English. By that, I mean even a linguist would have
trouble determining where the person was from. They might be able to determine where the person is not from, though.
I have heard this described as "broadcaster voice".
On 2026-03-08 22:49, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 01:16:14 +0200, Steve Hayes
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 20:46:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D�Oliveiro
<[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the
early 60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise,
accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
When I hear the word �accentless�, I reach for my ... copy of �The
Story Of English�. At any rate, something heavy and hardbound. Mass
matters.
I assumed Tony meant "accentless" as perceived in Chicago. I once knew
a bloke from Chicago, and I assume he spoke with a Chcago accent, or
perhaps with what some might call "Mid-Western", but I don't think I'd
be able to identify it if I heard it today, other than as coming from
somewhere in the US.
That's too generalized, Steve. The "Chicago Accent" is mostly heard
spoken by blue collar and working class Chicagoans from the South Side
of Chicago. Residents of, say, Bridgeport where the Daley family is
from.
There is only one thing that makes me think that someone is speaking
with a Chicago accent. It's the speaking of words like 'hot' 'dot' as
'hat' and 'dat' where the 'a' pronunciation is something between the 'o'
and 'a' in those words.
Would this be a characteristic of the Bridgeport folks' accent?
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2Most people in Chicago (and I lived there several years) speak
accentless English. By that, I mean even a linguist would have
trouble determining where the person was from. They might be able to
determine where the person is not from, though.
I have heard this described as "broadcaster voice".
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 09:20:57 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
I've been exposed to too many operating systems already.
Like my poem, OS/2, OS/2
Like a guitar in the night
You are all my horizon, OS/2, OS/2
That’s how you are, OS/2
(Apologies to Juan Carlos Calderón) <https://www.letras.com/mocedades/26487/english.html>
Other people have accents; one never does oneself.
My father was born on Cape Breton Island, and lived there for the 12 or
so years of his life. However, all the time I knew him he spoke with a
pure RP accent. When he was sent to school in England I think he was
probably teased about his accent, and he made a strenuous effort to lose
it. His two sisters,
both younger than him, also spoke pure RP when I knew them.
But then in the days of the Empire, many Indian phrases were lifted
wholesale from India and glued into English.
On 08/03/2026 23:42, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
He invents the Shield of America to give Kristi Noam another place to
make a hideous mess.
He must fancy her. I wouldn't bed someone who would blow my head off if
I didnt agree with her.
My guess is that Netanyahu did what Zelenskyy did not, Put $15bn in his BitCoin account and said 'attack Iran'
On 09/03/2026 08:08, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 06:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though, isn’t >>> there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language, whereas
lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language (think
Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
Twa corbies?
sat upon a wa?
On 09/03/26 17:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 06:16:34 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Scotland is part of Britain and Scots tended to identify as British
(as well as Scottish) ...
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though,
isn’t there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language,
whereas lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language
(think Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
All of the people of those islands were Celts, prior to the arrival of
the Norse and Angles and Saxons. In Britain, though, the Celtic
languages split into two familes, the Goidelic languages (Irish,
Scottish Gaelic, Manx) and the Brittonic languages (Welsh, Cornish,
Breton). (Plus some now-extinct languages.) The Highland Scots spoke
Gaelic; the English and Lowland Scots spoke Brittonic languages -- which subsequently died out, except in Wales and Bretagne, because of
migrations from elsewhere.
The Picts of Scotland probably also spoke a Celtic language, but we
don't know much about their language.
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <[email protected]d> posted:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 17:42:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
A friend of ours in Bellingham says "Warshington".
What I can't understand is where some people get the second A
when they say "realator".
Can anybody explain “Nucular”?
Thinking of the title of this thread, do we all remember Flanders and Swann?
I'm a g-nu, I'm a g-nu
The g-nicest work of g-nature in the zoo
I'm a g-nu, how d'you do?
You really ought to k-now W-ho's W-ho!
I'm a g-nu, spelled G-N-U
I'm g-not a camel or a kangaroo
So let me introduce
I'm g-neither man or moose
Oh g-no g-no g-no, I'm a g-nu!"
On Mon, 09 Mar 26 09:45:02 UTC, Charles Hope wrote:
On 09/03/2026 08:08, rbowman wrote:
Twa corbies?
sat upon a wa?
I didn't realize the poem was anonymous; I thought it was Burns. That
leads to the question of where did I run into it. Steeleye Span? The 'hawk and hound' part also raises a tickle. Some obscurity in Thoreau?
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 13:52:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/03/2026 23:42, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
He invents the Shield of America to give Kristi Noam another place to
make a hideous mess.
He must fancy her. I wouldn't bed someone who would blow my head off if
I didnt agree with her.
It adds spice. I preferred my women to be slightly insane.
I wish I could g-nash my teeth at you!
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 14:04:45 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
But then in the days of the Empire, many Indian phrases were lifted
wholesale from India and glued into English.
When curry replaces mince and tatties you've been pwned.
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:07:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I wish I could g-nash my teeth at you!
That, too, is, or was, a GNU project
<https://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/>.
On Mon, 09 Mar 26 09:45:02 UTC, Charles Hope wrote:
On 09/03/2026 08:08, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 06:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though, isn’t >>>> there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language, whereas
lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language (think
Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
Twa corbies?
sat upon a wa?
I didn't realize the poem was anonymous; I thought it was Burns. That
leads to the question of where did I run into it. Steeleye Span? The 'hawk and hound' part also raises a tickle. Some obscurity in Thoreau?
And down the internet rabbit hole:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsp8cQyWecg
I've read 'Hurt Hawks' many times but had never heard Jeffers read it. It resonates with me.
... banishing thoughts of Richard Stallman from my mind ...
Oh well, yanked back to focuse on the world of that nasal voice and
poor judgement in one corpulent package.
On 2026-03-09, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 26 09:45:02 UTC, Charles Hope wrote:
On 09/03/2026 08:08, rbowman wrote:
Twa corbies?
sat upon a wa?
I didn't realize the poem was anonymous; I thought it was Burns. That
leads to the question of where did I run into it. Steeleye Span? The 'hawk >> and hound' part also raises a tickle. Some obscurity in Thoreau?
Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a
song called "The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of
"The Twa Corbies".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Ravens
Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a song called
"The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of "The Twa Corbies".
On 9/03/2026 11:17 p.m., Peter Moylan wrote:
On 09/03/26 17:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 06:16:34 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Scotland is part of Britain and Scots tended to identify as
British (as well as Scottish) ...
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though,
isn’t there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic
language, whereas lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their
Scottish language (think Robbie Burns) has the same common
origins as English.
All of the people of those islands were Celts, prior to the arrival
of the Norse and Angles and Saxons. In Britain, though, the Celtic
languages split into two familes, the Goidelic languages (Irish,
Scottish Gaelic, Manx) and the Brittonic languages (Welsh,
Cornish, Breton). (Plus some now-extinct languages.) The Highland
Scots spoke Gaelic; the English and Lowland Scots spoke Brittonic
languages -- which subsequently died out, except in Wales and
Bretagne, because of migrations from elsewhere.
The Picts of Scotland probably also spoke a Celtic language, but
we don't know much about their language.
My understanding is that Scots Gaelic is the result of a migration
from Ireland, about the same time as the Anglo-Saxons were arriving
in England. That's why it's quite closely related to Irish. The Goidelic/Brittonic split seems to me a very natural result if early
Celtic speakers settled both Ireland and Great Britain, and then went
their separate (linguistic) ways for some time. But apparently
there's still argument among Celtic specialists as to whether the
split took place there, or earlier on the Continent, and just where
Gaulish fits in.
One of those Murphy's Law posters which lists its many corollaries
included: "Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself." Having
spent some time with a woman like that, I came to realize that the
situation is self-correcting: they drive you crazy and then
everything is balanced.
One of those Murphy's Law posters which lists its many corollaries
included: "Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself."
Having spent some time with a woman like that, I came to realize that
the situation is self-correcting:
they drive you crazy and then everything is balanced.
On Mon, 9 Mar 2026 10:02:10 +1100, Peter Moylan <[email protected]>
wrote:
My second son was code-switching at the age of 4. He switched between >>French and English, sometimes in the middle of a sentence, depending on
who he was facing at the time.
I have always understood that "code switching" was switching from one
(often) regional accent to another. My example above, and someone who >reverts to the regional accent when returning to the area after living >somewhere where that accent was suppressed.
Switch from French to English, though, would not be "code-switching"
to me. If so, there are thousands of code-switchers here in Orlando
who speak either English or Puerto Rican Spanish depending on who they
are facing.
Le 09/03/2026 à 06:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro a écrit :
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 06:16:34 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
Scotland is part of Britain and Scots tended to identify as British
(as well as Scottish) ...
There is a difference between highland and lowland Scots though, isn’t
there: highland Scots are Celts, and have a Celtic language, whereas
lowland Scots are Anglo-Saxons, and their Scottish language (think
Robbie Burns) has the same common origins as English.
I deg to biffer, or beg to differ about Lowland Scots. I don't think
they or any other modern people are Anglo-Saxon. The Anglo-Saxons lived >1,000 years ago. No-one speaks Anglo-Saxon any more, unless it's a few >university professors; our language is English, which is, if anything, >Anglo-Norman. Our culture is no longer Anglo-Saxon (mead-swilling
thanes, warriors, and peasants), and if there ever were 'Anglo-Saxon'
genes, in Britain at least as far up as the Central Belt, after 1,000
years of migration and interbreeding they are pretty mixed up.
<https://i.ytimg.com/vi/69lA3MDZiPM/hq720.jpg>
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 01:16:14 +0200, Steve Hayes
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, 8 Mar 2026 20:46:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DÿOliveiro >><[email protected]d> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the
early 60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise,
accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
When I hear the word “accentless”, I reach for my ... copy of “The >>>Story Of English”. At any rate, something heavy and hardbound. Mass >>>matters.
I assumed Tony meant "accentless" as perceived in Chicago. I once knew
a bloke from Chicago, and I assume he spoke with a Chcago accent, or >>perhaps with what some might call "Mid-Western", but I don't think I'd
be able to identify it if I heard it today, other than as coming from >>somewhere in the US.
That's too generalized, Steve. The "Chicago Accent" is mostly heard--
spoken by blue collar and working class Chicagoans from the South Side
of Chicago. Residents of, say, Bridgeport where the Daley family is
from.
Most people in Chicago (and I lived there several years) speak
accentless English. By that, I mean even a linguist would have
trouble determining where the person was from. They might be able to >determine where the person is not from, though.
I have heard this described as "broadcaster voice".
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 01:16:14 +0200, Steve Hayes
<[email protected]> wrote:
I assumed Tony meant "accentless" as perceived in Chicago. I once knew
a bloke from Chicago, and I assume he spoke with a Chcago accent, or >>perhaps with what some might call "Mid-Western", but I don't think I'd
be able to identify it if I heard it today, other than as coming from >>somewhere in the US.
That's too generalized, Steve. The "Chicago Accent" is mostly heard
spoken by blue collar and working class Chicagoans from the South Side
of Chicago. Residents of, say, Bridgeport where the Daley family is
from.
Most people in Chicago (and I lived there several years) speak
accentless English. By that, I mean even a linguist would have
trouble determining where the person was from. They might be able to >determine where the person is not from, though.
I have heard this described as "broadcaster voice".--
On Tue, 10 Mar 2026 02:00:30 +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
... banishing thoughts of Richard Stallman from my mind ...
In a thread with this subject line?
Oh well, yanked back to [focus] on the world of that nasal voice and
poor judgement in one corpulent package.
Prophets are often not nice people to meet personally.
He has sounded the alarm on two notable occasions: once about software patents, the other about cloud computing. And history has proven him
right both times. You don’t have to like him to admit that.
On 10/03/26 10:07, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-03-09, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 26 09:45:02 UTC, Charles Hope wrote:
On 09/03/2026 08:08, rbowman wrote:
Twa corbies?
sat upon a wa?
I didn't realize the poem was anonymous; I thought it was Burns. That
leads to the question of where did I run into it. Steeleye Span? The
'hawk and hound' part also raises a tickle. Some obscurity in Thoreau?
Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a song called "The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of "The Twa Corbies".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Ravens
God grant every gentleman
Fine hawks fine hounds
And such a leman
I think that song is the only place I've ever encountered the word "leman".
One of the rules that all of the house-sharers respected was "Never
sleep with someone you're living with".
Den 10.03.2026 kl. 06.37 skrev Peter Moylan:
One of the rules that all of the house-sharers respected was "Never
sleep with someone you're living with".
How does your wife feel about that?
On 10/03/26 10:07, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
God grant every gentleman
Fine hawks fine hounds
And such a leman
I think that song is the only place I've ever encountered the word "leman".
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:07:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Crikey. She already looked middle aged as a teenager.Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a song called
"The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of "The Twa Corbies".
I didn't remember that one. When i was 12 or so I thought Mary was pretty hot.
What happened to the Picts?
Ar an naoiú lá de mí Márta, scríobh Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:07:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I wish I could g-nash my teeth at you!
That, too, is, or was, a GNU project <https://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/>.
I was very close to replying to Athel (upthread) commenting that I was glad to
read his post, banishing thoughts of Richard Stallman from my mind, but I was uncertain as to whether Athel knows who Stallman is.
Oh well, yanked back to
focuse on the world of that nasal voice and poor judgement in one corpulent package.
Didn't they do 'Puff the magic dragon
lived by the sea
Puff the magic dragon
Took lots of LSD' ?
Den 10.03.2026 kl. 11.32 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Didn't they do 'Puff the magic dragon
lived by the sea
Puff the magic dragon
Took lots of LSD' ?
They hated it when people tried to read drug abuse into the song.
Hibou wrote:
<https://i.ytimg.com/vi/69lA3MDZiPM/hq720.jpg>
What happened to the Picts?
Le 10/03/2026 à 07:37, Steve Hayes a écrit :
Hibou wrote:
<https://i.ytimg.com/vi/69lA3MDZiPM/hq720.jpg>
What happened to the Picts?
I think they've shovelled off this mortal coil.
(With apologies.)
What happened to the Picts?
On 10/03/26 10:07, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-03-09, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 26 09:45:02 UTC, Charles Hope wrote:
On 09/03/2026 08:08, rbowman wrote:
Twa corbies?
sat upon a wa?
I didn't realize the poem was anonymous; I thought it was Burns. That
leads to the question of where did I run into it. Steeleye Span? The
'hawk and hound' part also raises a tickle. Some obscurity in Thoreau?
Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a song
called "The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of "The Twa
Corbies".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Ravens
God grant every gentleman Fine hawks fine hounds And such a leman
I think that song is the only place I've ever encountered the word
"leman".
On 10/03/2026 05:34, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:07:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Crikey. She already looked middle aged as a teenager.
Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a song
called "The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of "The Twa
Corbies".
I didn't remember that one. When i was 12 or so I thought Mary was
pretty hot.
Didn't they do 'Puff the magic dragon lived by the sea Puff the magic
dragon Took lots of LSD' ?
Den 10.03.2026 kl. 11.32 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Didn't they do 'Puff the magic dragon lived by the sea Puff the magic
dragon Took lots of LSD' ?
They hated it when people tried to read drug abuse into the song.
On Tue, 10 Mar 2026 10:32:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Didn't they do 'Puff the magic dragon lived by the sea Puff the magic
dragon Took lots of LSD' ?
At the time everyone I knew thought it was a cute but sad song about a little boy and his dragon friend.
Then the politicians told us it was
really about drugs. This led us to the belief that politicians have their head far up their asses. I have had little reason to revise that opinion.
Le 10/03/2026 à 07:37, Steve Hayes a écrit :
Hibou wrote:
<https://i.ytimg.com/vi/69lA3MDZiPM/hq720.jpg>
What happened to the Picts?
I think they've shovelled off this mortal coil.
(With apologies.)
On 10/03/2026 05:34, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:07:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a song called >>> "The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of "The Twa Corbies".
I didn't remember that one. When i was 12 or so I thought Mary was pretty
hot.
Crikey. She already looked middle aged as a teenager.
Didn't they do 'Puff the magic dragon
lived by the sea
Puff the magic dragon
Took lots of LSD' ?
On Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:43:18 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 10.03.2026 kl. 11.32 skrev The Natural Philosopher:
Didn't they do 'Puff the magic dragon lived by the sea Puff the magic
dragon Took lots of LSD' ?
They hated it when people tried to read drug abuse into the song.
Speaking personally the drug abusers were rather surprised about that interpretation.
We were also surprised when Lawrence Welk featured a rendition of
'One Toke Over The Line' on his show, calling it a modern spiritual.
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:07:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a song called
"The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of "The Twa Corbies".
I didn't remember that one. When i was 12 or so I thought Mary was pretty hot.
On 10/03/2026 07:37, Steve Hayes wrote:
What happened to the Picts?
That is a question no one has an answer to.
Suggestions that they now comprise the natives of Glasgow are
credibly deniable.
On 10/03/2026 05:34, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:07:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Crikey. She already looked middle aged as a teenager.
Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a song called >>> "The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of "The Twa Corbies".
I didn't remember that one. When i was 12 or so I thought Mary was pretty
hot.
Didn't they do 'Puff the magic dragon
lived by the sea
Puff the magic dragon
Took lots of LSD' ?
On 10/03/26 21:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/03/2026 05:34, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:07:26 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Crikey. She already looked middle aged as a teenager.
Peter, Paul and Mary, on their live album "In Concert", do a song
called
"The Three Ravens". It could be a predecessor of "The Twa Corbies".
I didn't remember that one. When i was 12 or so I thought Mary was
pretty
hot.
Didn't they do 'Puff the magic dragon
lived by the sea
Puff the magic dragon
Took lots of LSD' ?
That would explain why he had an imaginary human friend.
Reminds me of an apocryphal trip tale. Man goes down the bottom of the garden, suitably fortified, to 'talk to the horses'...
And comes back shaking....'what happened?' they asked.
'They answered back'...
On 11/03/26 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Reminds me of an apocryphal trip tale. Man goes down the bottom of the
garden, suitably fortified, to 'talk to the horses'...
And comes back shaking....'what happened?' they asked.
'They answered back'...
I didn't know that euphemism.
see a man about a dog
shake hands with the unemployed
drain the snake
and many more that have slipped my mind for the moment.
On 11/03/2026 10:41, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 11/03/26 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Reminds me of an apocryphal trip tale. Man goes down the bottom of the
garden, suitably fortified, to 'talk to the horses'...
And comes back shaking....'what happened?' they asked.
'They answered back'...
I didn't know that euphemism.
It wasn't a euphemism. He went to actually talk to the horses,
The ones I hear here are
see a man about a dog
shake hands with the unemployed
drain the snake
and many more that have slipped my mind for the moment.
Point Percy at the porcelain?
On 11/03/26 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Reminds me of an apocryphal trip tale. Man goes down the bottom of the
garden, suitably fortified, to 'talk to the horses'...
And comes back shaking....'what happened?' they asked.
'They answered back'...
I didn't know that euphemism. The ones I hear here are
see a man about a dog
shake hands with the unemployed
drain the snake
and many more that have slipped my mind for the moment.
On 11/03/2026 10:41, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 11/03/26 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Reminds me of an apocryphal trip tale. Man goes down the bottom of the
garden, suitably fortified, to 'talk to the horses'...
And comes back shaking....'what happened?' they asked.
'They answered back'...
I didn't know that euphemism.
It wasn't a euphemism. He went to actually talk to the horses,
The ones I hear here are
see a man about a dog
shake hands with the unemployed
drain the snake
and many more that have slipped my mind for the moment.
Point Percy at the porcelain?
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 11/03/2026 10:41, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 11/03/26 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Reminds me of an apocryphal trip tale. Man goes down the bottom of the >> garden, suitably fortified, to 'talk to the horses'...
� And comes back shaking....'what happened?' they asked.
'They answered back'...
I didn't know that euphemism.
It wasn't a euphemism. He went to actually talk to the horses,
The ones I hear here are
� � � see a man about a dog
� � � shake hands with the unemployed
� � � drain the snake
and many more that have slipped my mind for the moment.
Point Percy at the porcelain?
At least two generations ago: "Pump ship".
"Siphon the python."
On Sun, 08 Mar 2026 16:32:32 -0400, Tony Cooper wrote:
My secretary, when I was working for a company in Chicago in the
early 60s, was an African American woman who spoke clear, precise,
accentless, grammatically errorless English when working.
When I hear the word “accentless”, I reach for my ... copy of “The Story Of English”. At any rate, something heavy and hardbound. Mass matters.
Every once in a while, I'd overhear her on the phone with a friend
or relative, thought, and she'd break into what now call Ebonics*.
The first time I heard that, I thought someone else was using her
phone.
She had one person who called her that must have been Jamacian,
because she'd switch to pure Jamacian English.
This is so common, the linguists have a term for it: it’s called “code-switching”.
In article <1rrtm6n.o4qfp17r06qjN%[email protected]>,
Sn!pe <[email protected]> wrote:
"Siphon the python."
A rather comprehensive list can be obtained from the Barry McKenzie
comic strips, where most likely many of them originated.
-- Richard
In article <1rrtm6n.o4qfp17r06qjN%[email protected]>,
Sn!pe <[email protected]> wrote:
"Siphon the python."
A rather comprehensive list can be obtained from the Barry McKenzie
comic strips, where most likely many of them originated.
...
100 years from now, historians will poke through the floatsam
and jetsam of Usenet, to find...this.
The thread started with somebody complaining that ASCII did not
provide for the decorative marks some non-English languages from
Europe put on top of some letters.
On 12 Mar 2026 02:49:19 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
The thread started with somebody complaining that ASCII did not
provide for the decorative marks some non-English languages from
Europe put on top of some letters.
That’s why we had all those national standard character sets. Like the
ISO Latin-x sets, which kept a common ASCII-like core, for writing
systems which used some variant of the Roman alphabet. And then others
beyond that, for completely non-Roman writing systems, and then into double-byte character sets for the East Asian writing systems.
All now subsumed into Unicode, of course. And all now enjoying
common frills, like the ever-increasing set of emojis that the
young ’uns like so much ...
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