BTW, Linux can join an Active Directory server (running on Linux or
Windows),
so the administrator can assign groups to users to facilitate shared
access to different projects.
But even if one is using /etc/groups, I'm not sure how one would set up
such a thing on MacOS. The groups are full! I guess you'd have to use >>> setfacl to add users individually -- which is more of a chore, and I
don't
think that can be centrally-managed.
Linux allows 65536 supplemental groups.
And that's just one example. Want more?
It's a tiny implementation detail that matters to maybe 5 people on
the planet.
And macOS can join an Active Directory server.
I know this... ...because I've done it.
<https://systemsupport.synergiaone.com/joined-macos-to-windows-active-
directory-domain-ad/>
So I'm not sure why you mentioned that.
What vallor posted is one thing, but Darwin isn't like a Linux distro, you'll be stuck manually setting up apps, Apple doesn't want macOS to beWhat has that to do with my question about why he mentioned Linux being
a modern Unix implementation, they want to exploit its underlying
benefits to bolster their lackluster crapware, which works well enough,
but it's not genuinely Unix in a way people recognize, if they've seen Linux.
On 2025-10-25 05:13, Daniel70 wrote:
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your
systems rescources so that some other program can't use them??
Because you know that you're going to use the app again in just a few moments? How about that?
Why should I have to completely relaunch Word when I'm editing document after document?
On 29/10/2025 9:02 am, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 05:13, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your
systems rescources so that some other program can't use them??
Because you know that you're going to use the app again in just a few moments? How about that?
Why should I have to completely relaunch Word when I'm editing document after document?
From with-in the document you are editing, can you not select File ->
Open New Document (or something similar)??
(I don't have MS Word or office installed.)
On 28/10/2025 11:18, Daniel70 wrote:
On 28/10/2025 9:48 pm, David B. wrote:
On 28/10/2025 10:22, Daniel70 wrote:
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975),
we did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled
Black Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had
to do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
No doubt you, too, have always valued that start in life, Daniel!
I loved Australia. I spent two years on loan service to the RAN and
was based at NAS Nowra, NSW. I also spent two months aboard HMAS
Melbourne during a RIMPAC exercise which culminated with two weeks
alongside in Hawaii!
HMAS Melbourne!! You lucky bastard!! In my time, in the Navy, people
would just about KILL to have that experience!!
Haha! 🙂. I enjoyed it too, but my wife wasn't too happy about me
dumping her in a foreign land with three young children to look after!
Do you still live there?
Born'n'Bred in Australia. I've been round about on Holidays
(UK/Europe, SE Asia, China) but still live in Australia.
It's good to know that you have 'seen the world' - unlike many Americans!
My son has a friend who is from South Africa. When I asked him what it
was like he said "Like Australia, but without the flies!"
That brought back some memories! ;-)
On 28/10/2025 11:18, Daniel70 wrote:
On 28/10/2025 9:48 pm, David B. wrote:
I loved Australia. I spent two years on loan service to the RAN and
was based at NAS Nowra, NSW. I also spent two months aboard HMAS
Melbourne during a RIMPAC exercise which culminated with two weeks
alongside in Hawaii!
HMAS Melbourne!! You lucky bastard!! In my time, in the Navy, people
would just about KILL to have that experience!!
Haha! 🙂. I enjoyed it too, but my wife wasn't too happy about me
dumping her in a foreign land with three young children to look after!
Do you still live there?
Born'n'Bred in Australia. I've been round about on Holidays
(UK/Europe, SE Asia, China) but still live in Australia.
It's good to know that you have 'seen the world' - unlike many Americans!
My son has a friend who is from South Africa. When I asked him what it
was like he said "Like Australia, but without the flies!"
That brought back some memories! ;-)
At Wed, 29 Oct 2025 14:37:21 -0700, Alan <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2025-10-29 14:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/29/2025 5:02 PM, Alan wrote:
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your
normal setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it >>>>>>> in by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
Convenience.
When my landlord pays the electric bill, how convenient would it be
for him to have to pay for a rarely used device needlessly connected >>>>> to my computer?
What USB scanner do you have?
Epson Perfection V39, purchased in 2023. My friend was trying to get
his unemployment benefits, and had to prove his identity online, and it
was a device I wasn't against having (and I had a gift-card balance on
Amazon from my birthday), I've used it to scan my own driver's license
including just recently when I renewed it. I haven't used it
extensively, but it is nice to have.
What is it's current draw at idle?
I really don't know.
I do. Because I'm bright enough to check.
In use, it draws 2.5 watts.
I don't know where you live, but where I live electricity costs about
$0.15 per kilowatt-hour.
That scanner being actively used 24 hours a day for an entire year would
cost...
...$3.29
But!
Plugged in and NOT in use, it draws 1.1 watts. So left plugged in all
the time, it would cost $1.44 a year.
But, but!
When the computer is asleep, the scanner only draws 0.0125 watts.
So your power usage argument is complete bullshit.
If that were actually a significant amount, couldn't you just unplug
it without moving it?
That's exactly what I'd do if it were located on the desk, I don't have
space for it there.
Which is what I was saying:
You have a device that's inconvenient that is completely unnecessary if
you have an iPhone!
You have to:
1. Move a chair.
2. Retrieve the scanner
3. Plug it in.
All before you can scan.
Yeah well I have to walk to get food and other items, it takes a
little time and effort, but it allows me to live within my means,
instead of flailing around trying to support a vehicle I can't begin >>>>> to afford. Hell, in many cases it's easier to walk anyway, I live
close to things, but then there are occasions a car would be nice.
But you learn to accept what you have, as a grown person.
And the deflecting begins!
No, the point is that you're making a big deal out of very little.
You make a big deal out of actually nothing at all, so...
By having an iPhone, I don't NEED a scanner.
My "scanner" is available at all times...
...takes up no additional space...
...and it goes with me everywhere.
And I would not like using a phone for that, I'm sorry I'm so
backward, sheesh.
The only reason not to like it without even trying it, is to be
argumentative.
I like the innovation of the feature, abstractly, Apple gets points
for that, but I already have a flatbed scanner, I just would gain
little to nothing, I don't want to use my phone for that function.
But you're the one who talks about spending less...
By not buying a Mac, I could afford a scanner.
I have a ScanSnap IX1600, which is a color duplex scanner that has
a document feeder. If I scan a multipage, double-sided, color document,
it's a lot less hassle than scanning with a phone.
I also have an HP all-in-one on the network, which is behind me. I can scan over wifi.
I use the Paperless document management system, which is installed
as a Linux container. Importing documents is a matter of either drag-drop
an image, or a pdf. I use ImageMagick to create PDF's if I need them. It's all
dirt-simple.
The ScanSnap is destined to be moved to Mrs. Vallor's Mac Studio, and she already has access to Paperless. I guess she should scan a document with
her iPhone, but for a multipage document, the ScanSnap is a big win.
Using a phone is okay if you don't scan much.Exactly.
On 29/10/2025 12:20 am, David B. wrote:
On 28/10/2025 11:18, Daniel70 wrote:
On 28/10/2025 9:48 pm, David B. wrote:
<Snip>
I loved Australia. I spent two years on loan service to the RAN and
was based at NAS Nowra, NSW. I also spent two months aboard HMAS
Melbourne during a RIMPAC exercise which culminated with two weeks
alongside in Hawaii!
HMAS Melbourne!! You lucky bastard!! In my time, in the Navy, people
would just about KILL to have that experience!!
Haha! 🙂. I enjoyed it too, but my wife wasn't too happy about me
dumping her in a foreign land with three young children to look after!
Do you still live there?
Born'n'Bred in Australia. I've been round about on Holidays (UK/
Europe, SE Asia, China) but still live in Australia.
It's good to know that you have 'seen the world' - unlike many Americans!
My youngest sister married a Scot in Scotland so, on our way there, my Father and I visited distant relatives in Croatia .... and then, as the
"Sun Set on The Empire", some friends and I spent a week or so in Hong
Kong and, on the way back home, we had to spend a night in Manila.
My son has a friend who is from South Africa. When I asked him what itFlies! Flies! Bloody Flies!! .... and we're just getting into THEIR
was like he said "Like Australia, but without the flies!"
That brought back some memories! ;-)
season!!
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote <[email protected]>:
On 28/10/2025 14:22, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<[email protected]>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training >>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the >>>>>> Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the >>>>>> Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we >>>>>> did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black >>>>>> Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to >>>>>> do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
Maybe YOU would like to invite him formally?
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACW (alt.computer.workshop).
On 30/10/2025 5:46 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM MST, ""David B."" wroteOnly got approx 54,000 messages to read .... discussions that I've read don't really impress me though!!
<[email protected]>:
On 28/10/2025 14:22, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<[email protected]>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training >>>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT
(On the
Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On >>>>>>> the
Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November
1975), we
did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black >>>>>>> Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I >>>>>>> had to
do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
Maybe YOU would like to invite him formally?
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACW
(alt.computer.workshop).
On 30/10/2025 5:46 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM MST, ""David B."" wroteOnly got approx 54,000 messages to read .... discussions that I've read don't really impress me though!!
<[email protected]>:
On 28/10/2025 14:22, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<[email protected]>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training >>>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT
(On the
Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On >>>>>>> the
Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November
1975), we
did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black >>>>>>> Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I >>>>>>> had to
do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
Maybe YOU would like to invite him formally?
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACW
(alt.computer.workshop).
try shut your face before i tell them what an idgit you are
On 30/10/2025 5:46 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM MST, ""David B."" wroteOnly got approx 54,000 messages to read .... discussions that I've read
<[email protected]>:
On 28/10/2025 14:22, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<[email protected]>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training >>>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the >>>>>>> Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the >>>>>>> Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we >>>>>>> did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black >>>>>>> Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to >>>>>>> do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
Maybe YOU would like to invite him formally?
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACW
(alt.computer.workshop).
don't really impress me though!!
On Nov 5, 2025 at 4:05:16 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote <10efb1c$b23q$[email protected]>:
On 30/10/2025 5:46 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACWOnly got approx 54,000 messages to read .... discussions that I've read
(alt.computer.workshop).
don't really impress me though!!
Sadly much is about trolls just screaming how much they hate people who are honest. I am their favorite target -- somehow I "lie" in ways they cannot quote nor point to MIDs to support. But somehow 2004 is a very important year you MUST know about.
Getting better blood in the group would be good. People who ignore their BS (I
admit I do not).
On 6/11/2025 2:12 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 5, 2025 at 4:05:16 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10efb1c$b23q$[email protected]>:
On 30/10/2025 5:46 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
<Snip>
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACWOnly got approx 54,000 messages to read .... discussions that I've read
(alt.computer.workshop).
don't really impress me though!!
Sadly much is about trolls just screaming how much they hate people
who are
honest. I am their favorite target -- somehow I "lie" in ways they cannot
quote nor point to MIDs to support. But somehow 2004 is a very
important year
you MUST know about.
Hmmm!! I've encountered "2004" somewhere hereabouts .... but don't
remember why!!
Getting better blood in the group would be good. People who ignore
their BS (I
admit I do not).
But, whilst the group is overrun with crap, I think you have bugger all chance of reviving the group!
On 6/11/2025 2:12 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 5, 2025 at 4:05:16 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10efb1c$b23q$[email protected]>:
On 30/10/2025 5:46 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
<Snip>
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACWOnly got approx 54,000 messages to read .... discussions that I've read
(alt.computer.workshop).
don't really impress me though!!
Sadly much is about trolls just screaming how much they hate people who are >> honest. I am their favorite target -- somehow I "lie" in ways they cannot
quote nor point to MIDs to support. But somehow 2004 is a very important year
you MUST know about.
Hmmm!! I've encountered "2004" somewhere hereabouts .... but don't
remember why!!
--Getting better blood in the group would be good. People who ignore their BS (I
admit I do not).
But, whilst the group is overrun with crap, I think you have bugger all chance of reviving the group!
On 06/11/2025 11:21, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/11/2025 2:12 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 5, 2025 at 4:05:16 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10efb1c$b23q$[email protected]>:
On 30/10/2025 5:46 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
<Snip>
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACWOnly got approx 54,000 messages to read .... discussions that I've read >>>> don't really impress me though!!
(alt.computer.workshop).
Sadly much is about trolls just screaming how much they hate people
who are
honest. I am their favorite target -- somehow I "lie" in ways they
cannot
quote nor point to MIDs to support. But somehow 2004 is a very
important year
you MUST know about.
Hmmm!! I've encountered "2004" somewhere hereabouts .... but don't
remember why!!
Getting better blood in the group would be good. People who ignore
their BS (I
admit I do not).
But, whilst the group is overrun with crap, I think you have bugger
all chance of reviving the group!
ACW is one of the most active groups on Usenet!
You'll be made most welcome! 🙂
Drop us a CV as a start!
On 6/11/2025 10:44 pm, David B. wrote:
On 06/11/2025 11:21, Daniel70 wrote:You'd be lucky ... bloody lucky!!
On 6/11/2025 2:12 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 5, 2025 at 4:05:16 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10efb1c$b23q$[email protected]>:
On 30/10/2025 5:46 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
<Snip>
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACWOnly got approx 54,000 messages to read .... discussions that I've
(alt.computer.workshop).
read
don't really impress me though!!
Sadly much is about trolls just screaming how much they hate people
who are
honest. I am their favorite target -- somehow I "lie" in ways they
cannot
quote nor point to MIDs to support. But somehow 2004 is a very
important year
you MUST know about.
Hmmm!! I've encountered "2004" somewhere hereabouts .... but don't
remember why!!
Getting better blood in the group would be good. People who ignore
their BS (I
admit I do not).
But, whilst the group is overrun with crap, I think you have bugger
all chance of reviving the group!
ACW is one of the most active groups on Usenet!
You'll be made most welcome! 🙂
Drop us a CV as a start!
On 10/28/2025 7:53 PM, Alan wrote:
because they're inferior, obviously. Linus Torvalds got a 386
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into.
Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority.
And how far did he get on his own?
That he released something that could be rounded out by the community
is an astonishing achievement,
it was something GNU was able to combine with their code to turn into
a boot-able OS. It worked. To this day, we call the product
GNU/Linux as a result. Have others contributed to the kernel? You
bet, but Linus got the initial base code done.
On 10/28/2025 9:04 PM, Alan wrote:
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a
clean-room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was not stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much money
it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle, but why bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7, both of which sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let the crybaby former employers of Cutler get their settlement.
On 2025-10-29 10:29, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/29/2025 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:
But the point is that EVERY OS is the result of what has gone
before.
It might be fair to say that Torvalds used the concept of a Unix
kernel, but he didn't use source code of anyone else's.
Which is relevant... ...why?
It's not copying unless it involves source code.
False.
So an abstract concept can be patented? Oracle would love you, with
their frivolous lawsuit against Google, for the Java *concepts* being
implemented independently for Android's API.
Irrelevant.
If I paint a copy of the Mona Lisa, it's still a copy.
On 29/10/2025 12:42 pm, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/28/2025 9:04 PM, Alan wrote:
<Snip>
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a
clean-room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was not
stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much money
it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle, but why
bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7, both of which
sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let the crybaby former
employers of Cutler get their settlement.
I thought Win98 and WinNT were combined into Win2000 which then became
WinXP, etc.
Or was Win2000 the target combination which wasn't met so the real combination occurred with WinXP??
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a
clean-room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was not
stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much
money it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle, but
why bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7, both of
which sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let the crybaby
former employers of Cutler get their settlement.
I thought Win98 and WinNT were combined into Win2000 which then became WinXP, etc.
Or was Win2000 the target combination which wasn't met so the real combination occurred with WinXP??
On 11/8/25 6:03 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a
clean-room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was not
stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much
money it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle, but
why bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7, both of
which sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let the crybaby
former employers of Cutler get their settlement.
I thought Win98 and WinNT were combined into Win2000 which then became
WinXP, etc.
Or was Win2000 the target combination which wasn't met so the real
combination occurred with WinXP??
2000 was NT 5, as XP was NT 5.1. Neither inherited any real code from
9x, though some included apps were basically the same (e.g. Notepad).
But with the advent of XP, the 3.x base was finally eliminated
altogether (98 and Me were essentially 32-bit but still limited by constraints dating back to 95 and 3.x)
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