None of these (or almost none?) would stand a chance of working on iOS.
Why not?
Below is simply an example of automation apps that are on my daily drive. None of these (or almost none?) would stand a chance of working on iOS.
Why not?
I wrote a few tutorials recently on the Android newsgroup, almost all of which wouldn't be possible on iOS, simply because iOS is a brain-dead toy.
Just as an example of some of the thousand apps on my 65GB free Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, are these apps which help to automate tasks on Android.
Of course, all are free, no ads, registration free (as always)...
Activities 1.5 (6) <com.cunnj.activitylauncher>
Activity Launcher 1.15.2 (41) <de.szalkowski.activitylauncher>
Activity Manager 5.4.2 (542) <com.activitymanager>
App Manager 4.0.4 (444) <io.github.muntashirakon.AppManager>
App Ops 9.0.7.r1708.57e6ad70 (1708) <rikka.appops>
App Shortcut Maker 3.10 (30) <com.bhanu.appshortcutmaker>
App Shortcuts 4.4 (14) <com.panagola.app.shortcut>
AppLinks 1.1.0 (1010000) fr.smarquis.applinks
Automate 1.47.0 (251) com.llamalab.automate
Automation 1.8 (139) <com.jens.automation2>
Easer 0.8.2.3 <ryey.easer>
Hidden Settings 1.1 (6) <com.PDquila.HiddenSettings>
Instant Intent 0.1 (5) <com.trianguloy.instantintent>
Intent Launcher 1.0.2 (3) <com.villevalta.intentlauncher>
Intent Viewer 1.0.1 (2) <info.maigo.lab.intentviewer>
IntentTask 2.2.0 (50) <com.balda.intenttask>
Intents 1.1.1 (3) <krow.dev.scheme>
LADB 2.1 (39) <com.draco.ladb>
Open Link With 2.8 (20800) <com.tasomaniac.openwith>
Permission Manager 1.1 (2) <in.yourstreet.permissionmanager>
Permission Manager X v1.25-fd (125) <com.mirfatif.permissionmanagerx>
Pinned Shortcuts 2.0 (6) <rk.android.app.pinnedshortcuts>
QuickShortcutMaker 2.4.0 (20400) <com.sika524.android.quickshortcut>
Quikshort 1.9.1 (60) <com.atolphadev.quikshort>
Shizuku 13.5.4.r1049.0e53409 (1049) <moe.shizuku.privileged.api>
Shortcut Creator 3.2.4 (62) <com.alextern.shortcuthelper>
Shortcut Maker 4.2.2 (102) <rk.android.app.shortcutmaker>
Shortcut Master (Lite) 1.2.7 (12) <org.vndnguyen.shortcutmaster.lite>
Shortcut To URL 1.5 (6) <jp.miotti.ShortcutToURL>
Shortcut Widgets & Inspector 1.0.0 (1) <com.cemique.shortcutwidgets>
ShortcutExecutors 1.0.2 (4) <com.alextern.shortcutexecutors>
Shortcuts 1.2.5 (47) <any.shortcut>
Shortcutter 7.8.0 (780) <com.leedroid.shortcutter>
Termux 0.118.0 (118) <com.termux>
Website Shortcut 3.4.1 (35) <com.deltacdev.websiteshortcut>
Here's a short description of what each app does, almost none of which
could possibly be done on the toy brain-dead iOS operating system.
Activities: Launch hidden activities and shortcuts from installed apps
Activity Launcher: Browse and start activities not exposed in app menus
Activity Manager: Manage running tasks and activities on your device
App Manager: Inspect, back up and control apps with strong privacy tools
App Ops: Manage and fine-tune app permissions beyond Android defaults
App Shortcut Maker: Create custom shortcuts to apps and activities
App Shortcuts: Build and place quick shortcuts for faster app access
AppLinks: Inspect and test Android app link handling and deep links
Automate: Create flows to automate tasks and reduce repetitive actions
Automation: Automate device actions with triggers and conditions
Easer: Automate actions triggered by events, time or specific conditions
Hidden Settings: Access hidden Android system settings quickly
Instant Intent: Send and test Android intents instantly
Intent Launcher: Launch apps or actions using custom intent URIs
Intent Viewer: View details of Android intents for debugging
IntentTask: Automate tasks by sending custom Android intents
Intents: Test and send Android scheme and intent URIs
LADB: Run ADB commands locally on device without a connected computer
Open Link With: Choose which app opens links instead of system defaults
Permission Manager: Basic tool to manage app permissions manually
Permission Manager X: Advanced permission control with detailed options
Pinned Shortcuts: Create pinned shortcuts for apps and activities
QuickShortcutMaker: Make shortcuts to hidden settings and activities fast
Quikshort: Build and manage quick shortcuts for apps and functions
Shizuku: Allow advanced app permissions without requiring full root access
Shortcut Creator: Create and customize shortcuts with icons and labels
Shortcut Maker: Build shortcuts to apps, activities and system actions
Shortcut Master Lite: Discover and launch hidden app activities
Shortcut To URL: Create home screen shortcuts that open web URLs
Shortcut Widgets Inspector: Inspect and create shortcut based widgets
ShortcutExecutors: Run predefined shortcut actions quickly
Shortcuts: Simple tool to create and manage app shortcuts
Shortcutter: Add quick settings toggles and custom shortcuts
Termux: Run Linux commands and scripts directly on your Android device
Website Shortcut: Place website shortcuts on your home screen
Every single one of these I've tested, so you can rest assured they are all free, ad free and registration free, as I don't use any apps that aren't.
Marion wrote:
None of these (or almost none?) would stand a chance of working on iOS.
Why not?
On Android, these apps work because the OS exposes deep system hooks like intents, activities, broadcast receivers, permission managers and shell access. That openness lets developers build tools that can launch hidden activities, override link handling, automate system toggles, or even run Linux shells directly on the phone.
iOS Shortcuts is very different. It is a sandboxed automation layer that Apple controls tightly. Shortcuts can chain actions between apps, but only through APIs Apple has approved. You cannot launch hidden system settings, inspect or override permissions, run arbitrary shell commands, or hook into low level system events. Apple blocks that for security and consistency.
So the difference is scope. Android allows user level apps to touch system internals through intents, ADB, and permission managers. iOS forbids that,
so its Shortcuts app is limited to surface level automation like opening an app, sending a message, or chaining actions Apple has exposed. That is why almost all of the Android tools listed would not be possible on iOS.
Marion wrote:
None of these (or almost none?) would stand a chance of working on iOS.
Why not?
On Android, these apps work because the OS exposes deep system hooks like intents, activities, broadcast receivers, permission managers and shell access. That openness lets developers build tools that can launch hidden activities, override link handling, automate system toggles, or even run Linux shells directly on the phone.
On 2025-11-02 19:10, Marion wrote:
Marion wrote:
None of these (or almost none?) would stand a chance of working on iOS.
Why not?
On Android, these apps work because the OS c like
intents, activities, broadcast receivers, permission managers and shell
access. That openness lets developers build tools that can launch hidden
activities, override link handling, automate system toggles, or even run
Linux shells directly on the phone.
iOS Shortcuts is very different. It is a sandboxed automation layer that
Apple controls tightly. Shortcuts can chain actions between apps, but only >> through APIs Apple has approved. You cannot launch hidden system settings, >> inspect or override permissions, run arbitrary shell commands, or hook into >> low level system events. Apple blocks that for security and consistency.
So the difference is scope. Android allows user level apps to touch system >> internals through intents, ADB, and permission managers. iOS forbids that, >> so its Shortcuts app is limited to surface level automation like opening an >> app, sending a message, or chaining actions Apple has exposed. That is why >> almost all of the Android tools listed would not be possible on iOS.
Opening you to exploits...
iOS Shortcuts is very different. It is a sandboxed automation layer that Apple controls tightly. Shortcuts can chain actions between apps, but only through APIs Apple has approved. You cannot launch hidden system settings, inspect or override permissions, run arbitrary shell commands, or hook into low level system events. Apple blocks that for security and consistency.
OF COURSE "iOS forbids that"! OF COURSE iOS does NOT "expose deep system hooks"!
On Android, these apps work because the OS exposes deep system hooks like
intents, activities, broadcast receivers, permission managers and shell
access. That openness lets developers build tools that can launch hidden
activities, override link handling, automate system toggles, or even run
Linux shells directly on the phone.
OF COURSE this crap will not work on iOS. BY DESIGN.
All of the above shit is why iOS is WAY more secure. I don't want random (side loaded?) apps running shells (scripts?) on my phone. Override link handling? Are you insane?
Notice that "iOS Shortcuts is very different. It is a sandboxed automation layer that
Apple controls tightly" AND "Apple blocks that for security and consistency."
You just proved that iOS is more secure than Android. Thank you for finally admitting that. You have gone from posting links that do not support your claims that "Android is more secure than iOS", to actually posting the words "Apple blocks that for security". Proving AGAIN, that you do not read the shit you copy/paste here.
Why the fuck would ANYONE want apps to "launch hidden system settings, inspect
or override permissions, run arbitrary shell commands, or hook into low level system events."
"Run arbitrary shell commands"? Really? "Override permissions"? Are you high?
"Hook into low level system events???????????????"
You actually think these are Good Things? So a side-loaded Android app can attach to a system event to overrride permissions and run shell scripts? What could possibly go wrong there?
"iOS Shortcuts is very different. It is a sandboxed automation layer that Apple controls tightly. Shortcuts can chain actions between apps, but only through APIs Apple has approved."
That is known as "security". Feel free to look up what that word means. Since you are such an Android cheerleader, you of course have no idea what "security" means.
I can't believe that Android is less secure than Windows XP. I CAN believe that you have no idea WTF you are talking about.
Again.
Marion wrote:
None of these (or almost none?) would stand a chance of working on iOS.
Why not?
On Android, these apps work because the OS exposes deep system hooks like intents, activities, broadcast receivers, permission managers and shell access. That openness lets developers build tools that can launch hidden activities, override link handling, automate system toggles, or even run Linux shells directly on the phone.
iOS Shortcuts is very different. It is a sandboxed automation layer that Apple controls tightly. Shortcuts can chain actions between apps, but only through APIs Apple has approved. You cannot launch hidden system settings, inspect or override permissions, run arbitrary shell commands, or hook into low level system events. Apple blocks that for security and consistency.
So the difference is scope. Android allows user level apps to touch system internals through intents, ADB, and permission managers. iOS forbids that,
so its Shortcuts app is limited to surface level automation like opening an app, sending a message, or chaining actions Apple has exposed. That is why almost all of the Android tools listed would not be possible on iOS.
This is the type stuff that interests me. What type tools / scripts do you use
on Android which would not work on iOS? NOT suggesting there are none. Educate
me. I am WAY behind on Android and never knew it that well.
Tyrone wrote:
On Android, these apps work because the OS exposes deep system hooks like >>> intents, activities, broadcast receivers, permission managers and shell
access. That openness lets developers build tools that can launch hidden >>> activities, override link handling, automate system toggles, or even run >>> Linux shells directly on the phone.
OF COURSE this crap will not work on iOS. BY DESIGN.
All of the above shit is why iOS is WAY more secure. I don't want random
(side loaded?) apps running shells (scripts?) on my phone. Override link
handling? Are you insane?
And yet, iOS is NOT more secure than Android.
So you gave up everything dear to you, for security.
And didn't get security.
Tyrone wrote:
OF COURSE "iOS forbids that"! OF COURSE iOS does NOT "expose deep system
hooks"!
I agree with you that iOS is like using a butterknife to chop down a tree, while Android is like using a chainsaw to get that same task done.
No disagreement with you here on that iOS is a toy compared to Android.
And, funny thing, it's no more (or less) secure than Android.
So, you lost everything.--
For nothing.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
This is the type stuff that interests me. What type tools / scripts do you use
on Android which would not work on iOS? NOT suggesting there are none. Educate
me. I am WAY behind on Android and never knew it that well.
Well then, you're in luck because I use Android & iOS all day, every day.
So I'm sadly well aware of the billions of things that iOS just can't do.
However, to your point, there are some basic things that even iOS can do. Let's start with the settings for privacy on Android that work also on iOS.
These are the "nuclear" settings for location privacy on Android...
1. Location radio = ON/OFF
2. Cellular voice radio = OFF/ON
3. Cellular data radio = OFF/ON
4. Bluetooth radio = OFF/ON
5. Wi-Fi radio = OFF/ON
6. Wi-Fi scanning = OFF/ON
7. Bluetooth scanning = OFF/ON
8. Google Location Accuracy = OFF/ON
9. Precise Location = ON/OFF
10. In apps, choose GPS only
11. Wi-Fi auto-reconnect = OFF/ON
12. Airplane mode = ON/OFF when you want maximum privacy
13. Wi-Fi calling = OFF/ON
14. NFC = OFF/ON
15. Sensors = restrict app access
Since I have both iOS and Android devices that I use daily,
I took a look at how iOS handles those same location-privacy controls.
By way of contrast, of those above, these are also controllable on iOS:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15 (which is 10 out of 15)
However, these are not available or handled very differently on iOS:
6, 7, 8, 10, 14 (which is 5 out of 15)
Here are the iOS menu paths for the 10 settings we can control:
1. Location radio
A. Settings > Privacy & Security > Location Services
2. Cellular voice radio
A. Settings > Cellular > Cellular Plans > toggle line off
3. Cellular data radio
A. Settings > Cellular > Cellular Data toggle
4. Bluetooth radio
A. Settings > Bluetooth > toggle off
5. Wi-Fi radio
A. Settings > Wi-Fi > toggle off
9. Precise Location
A. Settings >Privacy & Security >Location Services >select app >Precise Location
11. Wi-Fi auto-reconnect
A. Settings > Wi-Fi > tap network info (i) > Auto-Join toggle
12. Airplane mode
A. Settings > Airplane Mode toggle
B. Or Control Center > Airplane icon
13. Wi-Fi calling
A. Settings > Cellular > Wi-Fi Calling toggle
15. Sensors (restrict app access)
A. Settings > Privacy & Security > Motion & Fitness
B. Settings > Privacy & Security > Camera
C. Settings > Privacy & Security > Microphone
D. Settings > Privacy & Security > Local Network
E. Settings > Privacy & Security > Nearby Interactions
Here is what can be said about settings not directly controllable on iOS:
6. Wi-Fi scanning
A. iOS does not expose a user toggle for background Wi-Fi scanning.
B. The system may still scan for networks to improve location accuracy.
C. Apple anonymizes and randomizes probe requests to reduce tracking.
7. Bluetooth scanning
A. No separate toggle exists for background Bluetooth scanning.
B. Core system features like AirDrop, Handoff, and AirTag may use it.
C. Apple limits third-party access and requires user permission.
8. Google Location Accuracy
A. Not applicable on iOS, this is an Android-specific feature.
B. Apple uses its own location services, not Google's.
C. Some system services can be toggled under Settings >Privacy & Security > Location Services >System Services.
10. In apps, choose GPS only
A. iOS does not allow GPS-only mode.
B. Location is always a combination of GPS, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, & towers.
C. Users can only control per-app access and whether precise
or approximate location is shared.
14. NFC
A. NFC is always on for system functions like Apple Pay.
B. There is no user-facing toggle to disable NFC entirely.
C. 3rd-party apps cannot access NFC without explicit user action.
Thanks. So you can control connectivity on a more granular level.
Before there was discussion of scripting. How about in that area? I use some scripts on iOS...
* Buttons to play specific play lists -- set to random or in order as I wish, and set to the volume I like (for some I want it lower).
* Directions to Next Event: A single button that looks at locations in my calendar. It then gives a list, and lets me pick Apple or Google Maps to use for navigation.
* Sound on: Sets volume to max and turns on the ringer.
* Sound off: Sets volume to off and turns off the ringer.
* DnD until I leave. Turns off notifications until I leave the location I am at.
* Check in at Walmart. Single button that tells Walmart I am on the way and opens the app so I can tell them when I have parked.
* Network Tool. Can get current IP, speed test, ping, etc. Never really use it
but have it.
I will admit I have a lot more on macOS -- they are more useful to me and I can do more.
What type things am I missing out on with Android. Again... if that sounds like I am suggesting there is nothing I am not. Yeah, I am an iOS user, but I am outdated on Android and know there is a lot to learn. Not likely to change platforms but I like to know these things.
So you gave up everything dear to you, for security.
And didn't get security.
Would love to hear specifics on the benefits this gives Android users.
And, funny thing, it's no more (or less) secure than Android.
This is not what most articles on the subject say.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
And, funny thing, it's no more (or less) secure than Android.
This is not what most articles on the subject say.
Heh heh heh... I already gave you a dozen or more. You just can't read.
None of you Apple trolls has enough intelligence to go to college.
--- to wit ---
Never think I'm anything like the Apple trolls, because I can think so sophomoric arguments which work great on Apple trolls don't work on intelligent well-educated people, such as I am.
Even so, I'm not sure if you were responding to Tyrone or to me, but the point here that I'm trying to make is we all gave up so much choice in iOS for security, and yet, we didn't get any better security over Android.
We got DIFFERENT security perhaps.
But both platforms such in security.
Otherwise, Pegasus, Triangulation, LightSpy, Exodus, YiSpecter,
AceDeceiver, XcodeGhost, WireLurker, KeyRaider, etc., would not have been
so successful in attacking iOS devices around the world.
Below are the references for that sgtatement but here's a quick summary
of the many malware attacks against our beloeve iOS, where my main point is simply that Apple horrendously removed our choices for "security", but we didn't get any security out of that tradeoff - which is my main point.
These are all documented malware successful attacks on iOS:
A. Pegasus and Predator spyware (iVerify, MacObserver)
B. XcodeGhost (Wikipedia, Ars Technica, Lookout)
C. WireLurker (Wikipedia, Forbes, Ars Technica)
D. KeyRaider (PCMag, Wikipedia, Kaspersky)
E. Operation Triangulation (Wikipedia, Hacker News, Macworld)
F. LightSpy (ThreatFabric, Certo, iVerify)
G. Exodus spyware (Certo, AppleInsider, DarkReading)
H. YiSpecter (iDownloadBlog, Hacker News, The Register)
I. AceDeceiver (9to5Mac, Forbes, The Register)
So we gave up everything in iOS, for nothing.
Which is my main point that I'm trying to teach you about security.
Apple lied about WHY they locked up all your choices in iOS.
It's not for security at all.
It's for their profits.
But let's address your claim above about known Apple malware infestations.
1. XcodeGhost (2015): A malicious version of Apple's Xcode developer tool
spread in China, leading to infected apps in the App Store.
2. WireLurker (2014): Malware that spread via infected Mac apps and
then jumped to iOS devices when connected.
3. Pegasus Spyware (2016-present) which exploited zero-click malware
4. KeyRaider (2015, jailbroken devices only, so it doesn't really count
other than it points out that side loading added malware to iOS)
5. Triangulation spyware (2023) targeting iOS devices via iMessage
zero-click exploits which could exfiltrate microphone recordings,
photos, and geolocation data.
6. LightSpy (2020) spread through malicious links and exploited
WebKit vulnerabilities capturing data
7. Exodus spyware (2019) stole data, tracked activity, and even
activated iOS device microphones.
8. YiSpecter (2015) spread hijacked apps to display ads and steal data.
9. AceDeceiver (2016) exploited Apple's FairPlay DRM system to
install malicious apps
And there are more, but that should be enough malware for you for now.
Note the point isn't that all mobile devices have malware.
The point is that we traded our choices for security.
And yet, we got no security.
Apple lied.
The trade wasn't for security after all.
It was for Apple profits.
REFERENCES: https://iverify.io/blog/key-iocs-for-pegasus-and-predator-spyware-cleaned-with-ios-26-update
https://cybersecuritynews.com/ios-26-deletes-pegasus-and-predator-spyware-infection-evidence
https://www.macobserver.com/tips/how-to/detect-remove-pegasus-sypyware-ios https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XcodeGhost https://www.lookout.com/threat-intelligence/article/xcodeghost-apps https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/09/apple-scrambles-after-40-malicious-xcodeghost-apps-haunt-app-store
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirelurker https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2014/11/06/china-wirelurker-ios-malware
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/11/active-wirelurker-iphone-infection-ushers-in-new-era-for-ios-users
https://www.pcmag.com/news/jailbroken-ios-devices-vulnerable-to-keyraider-malware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KeyRaider https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/ios-greatest-hack/9714 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Triangulation https://thehackernews.com/2023/12/most-sophisticated-iphone-hack-ever.html https://www.macworld.com/article/2191252/operation-triangulation-iphone-attack-ios-16-2-exploits.html
https://www.threatfabric.com/blogs/lightspy-implant-for-ios https://www.certosoftware.com/insights/lightspy-ios-spyware-returns-with-dangerous-new-capabilities
https://iverify.io/blog/lightspy-ios-spyware-a-sophisticated-mobile-surveillance-threat
https://www.certosoftware.com/insights/android-exodus-spyware-can-now-infect-iphones-are-you-safe
https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/210410/enterprise-certificates-still-being-abused-to-spy-on-iphone-users
https://www.darkreading.com/cyberattacks-data-breaches/-exodus-ios-surveillance-software-masqueraded-as-legit-apps
https://www.idownloadblog.com/2015/10/05/yispecter-malware https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/ios-malware-attack.html https://www.theregister.com/2015/10/05/ios_malware_yispecter_iphone_apple https://9to5mac.com/2016/03/17/acedeceiver-iphone-malware https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2016/03/16/apple-iphone-malware-infects-china-ios
https://www.theregister.com/2016/03/16/acedeceiver_ios_malware
Brock McNuggets wrote:
So you gave up everything dear to you, for security.
And didn't get security.
Would love to hear specifics on the benefits this gives Android users.
Not one of you uneducated Apple trolls knows anything about Android.
It's only iOS that can't do what every other operating system easily does.
Why can't iOS save photos to a user-defined timedate format like Android
can?
Where are the wifi graphical debuggers on iOS (hint, it's brain dead).
Where are the encryption container tools on iOS (hint, it's brain dead). Where are the automatic call recorder tools on iOS (hint, it's brain dead). Where are the system wide foss firewalls on iOS (hint, it's brain dead). Where are the fake gps spoofing apps on iOS (hint, it's brain dead).
Where are the true ad free youtube clones on iOS (hint, it's brain dead). Where are the historical IPA backup tools on iOS (hint, it's brain dead). Where are the system wide foss ad blocking on iOS (hint, it's brain dead). Where's the real foss torproject tor browser on iOS (hint, it's brain
dead).
etc.
I know full well for the many hundreds of things iPhone users can't do because they're stuck inside the walled garden, you'll say they're all
Not needed. Not wanted.
Such as the privacy everyone else gets with the Tor Browser except iOS.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.
Such as the ability to copy files both ways with Windows just by connecting to the Windows computer without installing anything on the Windows
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.
Such as the ability to choose your default messenger for sms/mms, and to choose your default contacts manager and to choose your default dialer.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.
Such as the ability to name app icons what you want them named, and to put them where you want them (even in multiple places) for your organization.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.
Such as the ability to have two environments, one for work and one for you, to keep your work environment apps and objectives separate from your home.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.
Along that vein, having the ability to have multiple users should you want them is available on every computer platform except on iOS.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.
The list of useful features that are on every other platform except on iOS shows how debilitating the walled garden is when iOS is in the real world.
As a result iOS is a toy that doesn't work in the real world (unless all
you do with the iPhone is play games - yet - for games - iOS works well).
Copy ipa to install
Apple optimized the brain-dead iOS to fit its users.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
Thanks. So you can control connectivity on a more granular level.
Before there was discussion of scripting. How about in that area? I use some >> scripts on iOS...
* Buttons to play specific play lists -- set to random or in order as I wish,
and set to the volume I like (for some I want it lower).
* Directions to Next Event: A single button that looks at locations in my
calendar. It then gives a list, and lets me pick Apple or Google Maps to use >> for navigation.
* Sound on: Sets volume to max and turns on the ringer.
* Sound off: Sets volume to off and turns off the ringer.
* DnD until I leave. Turns off notifications until I leave the location I am >> at.
* Check in at Walmart. Single button that tells Walmart I am on the way and >> opens the app so I can tell them when I have parked.
* Network Tool. Can get current IP, speed test, ping, etc. Never really use it
but have it.
I will admit I have a lot more on macOS -- they are more useful to me and I >> can do more.
What type things am I missing out on with Android. Again... if that sounds >> like I am suggesting there is nothing I am not. Yeah, I am an iOS user, but I
am outdated on Android and know there is a lot to learn. Not likely to change
platforms but I like to know these things.
You ignorant Apple trolls are like kids who've only played with toys.
You have no idea that your iPhone doesn't do anything at all.
And that's fine with you because you never did anything in your life.
Why does the crippled iOS lack *wifi graphical debuggers*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack *cellular graphical debuggers*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack *automatic call recorder* tools?
Why does the crippled iOS lack the FOSS *secure tor browser*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack *encryption container* tools?
Why does the crippled iOS lack system wide FOSSa*firewalls*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack the ability to set an *app launcher*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack default *gps spoofing* privacy?
Why does the crippled iOS lack the ability to not *force an account*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack free FOSS powerful *youtube clones*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack historical *IPA backup* tools?
Why does the crippled iOS lack system wide FOSS *ad blocking* tools?
Not one of you ignorant Apple trolls has an IQ over about 40.
You're mixing a few things here, and the result doesn't really prove your point.
Every platform has had vulnerabilities -- iOS, Android, Windows, macOS,
you name it. The difference isn't that iOS is invincible, it's that Apple's security model drastically limits the scale and persistence of those attacks.
Let's go through your examples quickly:
* Pegasus / Predator / Triangulation / LightSpy -- these were nation-state exploits, using zero-click chains worth millions on the black market. They target diplomats, journalists, and activists. That doesn't mean "no security."
It means even the best systems get attacked at that level.
* XcodeGhost, YiSpecter, AceDeceiver, WireLurker -- all came from sideloading,
enterprise certificate abuse, or developers downloading tampered Xcode builds from unofficial sites -- things that Apple's current notarization, Gatekeeper,
and certificate controls specifically block.
* KeyRaider -- jailbroken devices only, as you noted. Apple explicitly warns that jailbreaking disables the protections iOS relies on.
Android's openness is great for customization, but it's also why there's constant background scanning, Play Protect, and a flood of malware variants every year.
magnitude fewer active malware families and infections in the wild -- that's not an opinion; it's in every yearly report from firms like Kaspersky, Lookout, and Symantec.
So no, Apple didn't "lie." The tradeoff is real: less freedom to tinker for dramatically reduced attack surface and stronger containment. That's exactly why the same Pegasus chain costs more on iOS than Android -- it's harder to pull off.
If the argument is "I wish iOS let me do more power-user stuff," fair enough. But pretending that both platforms are equally insecure isn't supported by evidence -- it's just a good-sounding soundbite for an anti-Apple rant.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
You're mixing a few things here, and the result doesn't really prove your
point.
Since you're not posting a classic denial of all facts, I'll treat this response as if I'm conversing with an actual adult. Let me know if I err.
Every platform has had vulnerabilities -- iOS, Android, Windows, macOS,
you name it. The difference isn't that iOS is invincible, it's that Apple's >> security model drastically limits the scale and persistence of those attacks.
Assuming you're acting as an adult, I would intelligently disagree with you since there is no evidence that iOS is any more secure than Android.
That's key.
People need to understand that security is a long chain of connected events (just as safety, hygiene, privacy, functionality, education, etc.) are.
To take airplane safety as an example, if Apple makes an airplane and then Apple marketing brilliantly touts the wings are made of titanium steel,
Apple will easily fool everyone that Apple is more safe, even as it may
turn out that the wheels are made out of old recycled rubber.
Take the specific example that Apple's iOS kernel is utter crap.
Everyone knows that. It's been exploited with zero-clicks many times.
Apple can have a "closed system" all it wants, but if the kernel and webkit are utter garbage (and they are), then the chain is easily shown to be broken.
The only true test of airplane safety is that the planes don't crash.
Just as the only true test of iOS safety is the exploits on it.
And the fact remains that iOS exploits are about the same as Android.
Which means, you lost everything for safety & you didn't get any safety.
Let's go through your examples quickly:
* Pegasus / Predator / Triangulation / LightSpy -- these were nation-state >> exploits, using zero-click chains worth millions on the black market. They >> target diplomats, journalists, and activists. That doesn't mean "no security."
It means even the best systems get attacked at that level.
You're right to claim above that iOS is not the best system since there are no known zero-click exploits of the Android kernel, which, as you stated, TLA's are attacking daily - but they can only penetrate iOS' kernel.
* XcodeGhost, YiSpecter, AceDeceiver, WireLurker -- all came from sideloading,
enterprise certificate abuse, or developers downloading tampered Xcode builds
from unofficial sites -- things that Apple's current notarization, Gatekeeper,
and certificate controls specifically block.
While I don't deny the added danger of sideloading, sideloading is kind of like carrying cargo that happens to have explosive batteries, where
everyone who wants to get something done, has to once in a while load normally.
Notice while the world calls normal loading on a mobile device
"sideloading", it's the normal way to load on any device but Apple's.
* KeyRaider -- jailbroken devices only, as you noted. Apple explicitly warns >> that jailbreaking disables the protections iOS relies on.
Same with Android where two days ago I spent hours on an Android tutorial making a six-step action one-step, and the closest I could get is 3 steps because of security that even Shizuku wouldn't let me work around.
So, I agree that jailbroken/rooted devices tend to allow more malware.
Android's openness is great for customization, but it's also why there's
constant background scanning, Play Protect, and a flood of malware variants >> every year.
Not really. You have to take the malware into perspective. We looked it up
in a previous thread where it's mostly in the underdeveloped countries.
I joke that you Apple guys love to quote the three people in sub-saharan Africa who got malware, but it's like Windows malware. It doesn't happen.
Every Android (just like every Windows PC) gets scanned daily for malware
and every installation on Android, yes, even with side/normal loading, is scanned for malware.
The fact is it's hype.
Yes it exist.
Yes it's on Android more than on iOS.
But it's like worrying about someone putting a razor blade in your candy. Even so, I do agree that the razor blade happens more on Android than iOS.
It's just that, in reality, it's mostly worthless hype.
<iOS's locked-down model isn't perfect, but it has orders of> magnitude fewer active malware families and infections in the wild -- that's
not an opinion; it's in every yearly report from firms like Kaspersky,
Lookout, and Symantec.
See above. I don't disagree that iOS has less malware than any system that allows normal loading. I just disagree that the malware is a real problem.
Given my degree'd background, let's bring up Ebola, for an example.
Apple can claim that they don't have Ebola in Cupertino, so they can claim Cupertino is the safest place in the world to live, but the fact is that, while Ebola is very real, it's not something that statistically matters.
Same with malware.
It's hype.
But I do agree, don't get me wrong, Apple's iOS has "less" of that one
thing, but Apple has the same amount (or more) of everything else.
So no, Apple didn't "lie." The tradeoff is real: less freedom to tinker for >> dramatically reduced attack surface and stronger containment. That's exactly >> why the same Pegasus chain costs more on iOS than Android -- it's harder to >> pull off.
What you're doing is classic misunderstanding of safety.
It's like saying because Apple made the wings out of titanium, then even though the tires are made out of old recycled rubber, the plane is safe.
The only true measure of safety is that all the chains are safe.
And we already know Apple's QA is so atrocious that Craig Federighi had to send out emails to the company asking them to test the code for God's sake.
Why else do you think the SAME BUG resurfaces time and again on iOS?
My point, which is an intellectual point I'm hoping you can understand, is you can't claim the end result of a chain by claiming only one link is secure.
If the argument is "I wish iOS let me do more power-user stuff," fair enough.
But pretending that both platforms are equally insecure isn't supported by >> evidence -- it's just a good-sounding soundbite for an anti-Apple rant.
There is no evidence that iOS is any more secure than Android is.
And yet, iOS can't do half the things that Android can.
My point is valid and well proven using facts, and sensible logic.
a. You gave up everything...
b. For nothing.
However, I must commend you for writing what appears to be adult dialog.
You're confusing technical inability with architectural choice. iOS could absolutely do most of those things -- it just doesn't,
because Apple
deliberately designs around privacy, reliability, and ecosystem trust. That's not "brain-dead"; it's a tradeoff millions of people consciously prefer.
Android's openness is great if you want to tweak, automate, or sideload everything. But it's also why you constantly need app permission managers, background process monitors, Play Protect, and backup scanners.
The same APIs
that let you spoof GPS or intercept network calls also enable data mining, hidden trackers, and malware persistence.
A few counterpoints you're skipping:
* Security updates: iOS devices get five to seven years of full OS and security updates, while many Android phones stop at two or three. That's not trivial -- it's actual long-term protection.
* Hardware-software integration: iOS runs on a tiny, controlled set of chips and components. That lets Apple optimize battery life, thermal balance, and performance-per-watt in ways no fragmented ecosystem can match.
* App Store oversight: Yes, restrictive -- but it means far less adware, data scraping, or fake "cleaner" apps compared to Android's Play Store clones and third-party markets.
* Privacy defaults: Location, microphone, and camera access are off by default; tracking transparency and relay-based email protection are system-level, not just app-level.
* Consistency: Every iPhone user has the same core UI, gestures, and security model. That's why help, support, and onboarding are so much easier across users.
* Resale value: Even years later, an iPhone holds value because Apple keeps it
updated and usable.
* Performance longevity: iPhones don't slow down from background daemons or misbehaving system hooks -- because third-party apps can't inject themselves that deeply.
* Privacy in backups and cloud services: End-to-end encrypted iCloud backups, Find My network, and on-device Siri processing show where Apple's locked-down model actually benefits users.
If you need root access and custom ROM flexibility, Android's the right tool.
But if you want a platform where you can hand your phone to your kid, parent, or client and know it's secure, supported, and predictable -- that's exactly where iOS shines.
So no, iOS isn't missing features because it can't do them. It's because Apple
decided to make a device that protects the user first, not the tinkerers.
You can keep shouting "brain-dead" and "crippled" all you want, but it doesn't
change what these features actually are or why they're missing.
Most of what
you listed requires low-level system access -- the kind that, if exposed, would let malware or spyware do the same things.
Apple locks that down because
iOS's entire security model is built on preventing unauthorized code execution
and data interception.
A quick reality check:
* Wi-Fi and cellular debugging tools -- exist, but they're developer tools tied to Xcode and require a connected Mac for packet tracing. They're not public apps for a reason: network sniffing can expose personal data.
* Automatic call recording -- restricted for legal compliance. In many countries, recording calls without consent is illegal, so Apple disables it globally rather than per-region (you can do it with notifications).
* Tor browser -- iOS has the Onion Browser, endorsed by the Tor Project itself. What you're asking for (direct kernel-level Tor hooks) simply isn't allowed under Apple's app sandboxing.
* Encryption containers and FOSS firewalls -- again, those require kernel or root-level access. Instead, iOS encrypts everything by default and offers VPN-based firewalls that don't break code signing.
* App launchers, GPS spoofing, and ad-free YouTube clones -- all rely on system overrides or scraping APIs Apple explicitly prohibits for privacy, copyright, and user safety reasons.
* Account requirement -- largely for ecosystem features like backups, purchases, and device tracking. Android ties users to Google accounts too, just less visibly.
You call iOS "crippled," but the platform is designed around consistency, privacy, and long-term support -- not tinkering. That's why it gets multi-year
security updates, stays performant over time, and avoids the Wild West of unvetted APKs and background daemons.
Android is great for experimentation and full system access -- no argument there. But pretending that equals "intelligence" or that iOS users are somehow
clueless misses the point entirely. They just value stability, privacy, and a device that works out of the box without babysitting.
You like raw control; others like reliable security. Both are valid choices --
yours just doesn't make everyone else "ignorant."
Brock McNuggets wrote:
You're confusing technical inability with architectural choice. iOS could
absolutely do most of those things -- it just doesn't,
Again, you seem to be speaking as an actual adult, and not as an Apple
troll. Hence, I will respond to you mano a mano, adult to adult.
Let me know if I do so in err.
because Apple
deliberately designs around privacy, reliability, and ecosystem trust. That's
not "brain-dead"; it's a tradeoff millions of people consciously prefer.
I both agree and disagree but mainly in how you present those two things.
1. Certainly the "iPhone" hardware could do all the things Android does.
2. Certainly, iOS, if Apple wanted it to, could also do those things.
Nobody ever said otherwise, and, in fact, I've said probably a thousand
times on this newsgroup, it's not so much the hardware that makes the
iPhone a toy, but the software (although iOS lacks basic hardware too).
Don't get me wrong though.
Most people don't know a damn thing about a phone.
That includes both iPhone & Android users.
SO they have no idea how fantastically brain dead the iPhone truly is.
But we're aficionados here, aren't we?
We're supposed to UNDERSTAND what the platforms can and cannot do.
Android's openness is great if you want to tweak, automate, or sideload
everything. But it's also why you constantly need app permission managers, >> background process monitors, Play Protect, and backup scanners.
I disagree but I understand your point.
Google is evil. Google is pernicious. So we need to protect ourselves.
But Apple is also evil. And also pernicious. We still need protection.
Nobody spies more on you on mobile devices than Apple simply because you basically can't do anything on an iPHone without logging into Cupertino.
Now, I've just had this conversation moments ago with AJL & Carlos on the Android newsgroup where I estimate most Android owners log into Palo Alto.
Once you log into a mothership, you should have no expectation of privacy.
The same APIs
that let you spoof GPS or intercept network calls also enable data mining, >> hidden trackers, and malware persistence.
What you're saying, which you've said before, is akin to saying one piece
of the iOS security chain is strong, the entire security chain is strong.
That's a fallacy.
The only test of the strength of the chain is what weight it holds up
before it breaks. And if one link is strong but others are weak, then it breaks.
Which is EXACTLY why iOS is no more secure than Android.
You gave up everything...
For nothing.
A few counterpoints you're skipping:
I welcome counter points, as long as they're like yours above, where most "counterpoints" from Apple trolls are flat out denials of known facts.
At least you're not doing that - which is refreshing.
But realize, I'm extremely well educated & intelligent so your
counterpoints must stand the scrutiny of an intelligent response.
* Security updates: iOS devices get five to seven years of full OS and
security updates, while many Android phones stop at two or three. That's not >> trivial -- it's actual long-term protection.
I don't know how to politely respond to that garbage, because it's garbage. It's like saying cars in the 1960's used to get 8 miles to the gallon.
It's not that way anymore.
And, we're talking flagship to flagship when we compare iOS to Android.
If you look at the cars of today, and if you look at flagship cars, some
get more or less miles per gallon, but all get more than 8 miles per
gallon.
Same with Android flagships of today compared to iPhones of today.
The vast majority of Androids are Samsung, where the promised full hotfix support of today is 7 years which includes concurrent Android releases.
Same with the Pixels of today.
Are you aware that the promised iPhone support is laughably short?
And, are you aware there is no concept of concurrent iOS releases?
When you become aware of those facts, then I'll be glad to discuss the CURRENT support landscape - but I need to know if you're talking from a
point of knowledge or if you're just spewing old stories from yesteryear.
* Hardware-software integration: iOS runs on a tiny, controlled set of chips >> and components. That lets Apple optimize battery life, thermal balance, and >> performance-per-watt in ways no fragmented ecosystem can match.
Again and again and again you spout Apple's (admittedly brilliant)
marketing bullshit spewing that one piece of the chain is the entire chain.
Take efficiency for example. While the CPU "allows" efficiency, only until recently not a single Apple iPhone was rated as an A in efficiency, while every single OEM (that we looked at) sold in Europe had A's in the lineup.
Certainly iOS "can" have all that good stuff.... but the question isn't
that it "can" but that it "does" when tested using reliable benchmarks.
Apple's efficiency was absolute crap until only the most recent phones.
But, the good news is the most recent phones finally caught up to Android.
But only because Apple was forced to by dint of the efficiency metrics.
* App Store oversight: Yes, restrictive -- but it means far less adware, data
scraping, or fake "cleaner" apps compared to Android's Play Store clones and >> third-party markets.
And yet, you have titanium wings and paper mache tires on that Apple airplane, meaning one element of the chain isn't the entire chain.
The fact is iOS is no more secure than Android.
Even with the most secure app store chain on the planet.
You gave up everything...
For nothing.
* Privacy defaults: Location, microphone, and camera access are off by
default; tracking transparency and relay-based email protection are
system-level, not just app-level.
I think it's the same with Android, but I haven't bothered to check the "defaults" since my phone is already heavily customized for privacy.
* Consistency: Every iPhone user has the same core UI, gestures, and security
model. That's why help, support, and onboarding are so much easier across
users.
Hmmm.... It's also why it's easier for TLA's to attack.
Which, by the way, is one reason why iOS is no more secure than is Android.
* Resale value: Even years later, an iPhone holds value because Apple keeps it
updated and usable.
Heh heh heh... you really do believe all the (admittedly brilliant)
marketing bullshit spewed by Apple. You need to step back and think.
My Android phone was free, but let's say it cost the $280 MSRP that I had
to pay the sales tax on (long story, but just accept it as fact, a priori).
That $280 Android has more functionality and safety than any iPhone ever sold, and, even if the resale value is nothing, resale value isn't the
point.
The statement that an iPhone has a higher resale value ignores the fact
Apple props it up, but more importantly, the Apple model requires that.
It's a long story, which is too involved for you to understand, but the
fact is that what matters is NOT resale value but total cost of ownership.
You can ask badgolferman about this, where we asked him to pick four
phones, all bought new at his local Apple/T-Mobile store, and then we literally *called* the T-Mobile store to get prices on the phones and their resale value and a few basic necessary accessories.
I did all the work but badgolferman chose all the phones. WE did this on
the newsgroup, together, in full public purview.
Guess what we found out in the real world?
* Performance longevity: iPhones don't slow down from background daemons or >> misbehaving system hooks -- because third-party apps can't inject themselves >> that deeply.
WTF? Now you're desperate. I'll ignore this grasping at straws.
* Privacy in backups and cloud services: End-to-end encrypted iCloud backups,
Find My network, and on-device Siri processing show where Apple's locked-down
model actually benefits users.
Again and again and again and again, you spew garbage Apple marketing bullshit. Let's not even go there when you claim no cloud service but
Apple's is secure, especially in light of all the hacks we know about.
If you need root access and custom ROM flexibility, Android's the right tool.
Actually, my Samsung is known to be unrootable.
But that's because of Samsung; not Android.
You need to know this basic elementary stuff about Android if you're going
to try to converse with intelligent and knowledgeable people like I am.
But if you want a platform where you can hand your phone to your kid, parent,
or client and know it's secure, supported, and predictable -- that's exactly >> where iOS shines.
And yet, it's not.
The fact remains that iOS is no more secure than Android.
You gave up everything...
For nothing.
So no, iOS isn't missing features because it can't do them. It's because Apple
decided to make a device that protects the user first, not the tinkerers.
And yet, the reason Apple locked you in has nothing to do with security.
On Nov 3, 2025 at 9:42:34'AM MST, "Marion" wrote
I would intelligently disagree with you
since there is no evidence that iOS is any more secure than Android.
What makes you think that?
Most sources say iOS is generally more secure than
Android for several reasons.
Apple tightly controls its App Store, reviewing
all apps, which makes malware far less common than on Android, where sideloading is easy.
iOS apps are strictly sandboxed, limiting what they can
access, and the OS and hardware are built with strong security features like the Secure Enclave and default full-disk encryption. Updates are delivered quickly to almost all devices, unlike Android's fragmented update system. In the wild, malware incidents are far rarer on iOS, and security research shows Apple patches vulnerabilities faster. Overall, the controlled ecosystem, rapid
updates, and hardware-backed protections make iOS harder to compromise for average users.
Android sees thousands of malware infections every year, mostly from sideloaded apps or unvetted stores, including trojans, spyware, and adware. iOS infections are extremely rare outside jailbroken devices or targeted attacks, with very few cases in the wild. For typical users, iOS is far less likely to encounter malware.
And the fact remains that iOS exploits are about the same as Android.
Which means, you lost everything for safety & you didn't get any safety.
You're right that security is a chain, but there's a difference between potential exploits and real-world compromise. iOS does get zero-click exploits, but they're extremely rare and usually patched within days.
Android
has more frequent malware in the wild because of its open ecosystem, sideloading, and slower updates-so even if the kernel is technically "better" in some sense, users are actually much more likely to be hit on Android.
The "planes crash" analogy works: iOS users almost never experience malware crashes or data theft, whereas Android users encounter it regularly. So in practice, the chain is far stronger on iOS, even if no system is perfect.
You're right to claim above that iOS is not the best system since there are >> no known zero-click exploits of the Android kernel, which, as you stated,
TLA's are attacking daily - but they can only penetrate iOS' kernel.
Zero-click exploits exist for both iOS and Android, but the key difference is frequency and exposure. iOS zero-clicks are extremely rare and typically patched quickly, while Android devices-especially older or unpatched ones-face
constant attacks via malware, sideloaded apps, and misconfigured services. So even if some attacks can technically hit iOS, the practical risk for the average user is much higher on Android. Security isn't just about whether an exploit exists-it's about how likely it is to affect real users.
Notice while the world calls normal loading on a mobile device
"sideloading", it's the normal way to load on any device but Apple's.
Sure, sideloading is common on most platforms,
but that's part of why Android
sees far more malware. On iOS, the App Store is the default method, and it's heavily vetted-so "normal" loading for Apple users carries far less risk. On Android, what's normal for developers or enthusiasts exposes every device to more potential threats, so it's not just semantics-it's a real security difference.
So, I agree that jailbroken/rooted devices tend to allow more malware.
Exactly-rooted or jailbroken devices open up far more attack surface, which is
why malware is more common there. Android's security can block legitimate tweaks too, but that same protection helps prevent malware from running unnoticed. On iOS, staying unjailbroken keeps users in that safer, controlled environment, even if it limits some advanced tweaks.
It's just that, in reality, it's mostly worthless hype.
Even if most malware targets regions with less robust security, the numbers on
Android aren't trivial. AV vendors consistently report thousands of unique malware samples affecting Android devices every year, far more than iOS. Scanning helps, but it doesn't stop every infection, especially with sideloaded apps or unpatched devices. Calling it "hype" underestimates the real-world risk: the probability of compromise is much higher on Android, even
if the consequences for an individual user might sometimes be low.
But I do agree, don't get me wrong, Apple's iOS has "less" of that one
thing, but Apple has the same amount (or more) of everything else.
I get the analogy, but unlike Ebola, malware is actively spreading and exploiting devices every day. On Android, infections are common enough to be a
real operational problem-banking trojans, adware, spyware, ransomware. On iOS,
infections are extremely rare outside targeted attacks or jailbroken devices. So it's not just hype: in practical terms, iOS users face far fewer threats, even if no system is perfect in every other area.
My point, which is an intellectual point I'm hoping you can understand, is >> you can't claim the end result of a chain by claiming only one link is
secure.
I get what you're saying, but there's a difference between potential flaws and
actual exploitation. iOS may have recurring bugs, but most of them don't lead to real-world compromises because of the layered protections-sandboxing, hardware security, strict app review, rapid patches. Android has more frequent, actively exploited malware because its chain is weaker in practice, even if some individual components are technically more open. Security isn't perfect anywhere, but iOS users hit fewer real-world failures.
However, I must commend you for writing what appears to be adult dialog.
There is evidence iOS is more secure: far fewer real-world malware infections,
faster patching of exploits, and stricter App Store vetting. On top of that, iOS offers daily usability and security benefits that as far as I know, Android generally can't match (please correct me if Android does have some of these... as I said, I am not an expert and am doing some research as we talk):
* Full-disk encryption by default protects all data automatically.
* Secure Enclave stores keys separately for Face ID, Touch ID, and Apple Pay.
* System-wide privacy controls let users control exactly which apps access camera, microphone, location, contacts, and more.
* AirDrop and Handoff make local and cross-device file sharing seamless and secure.
* Instant, uniform OS updates keep all supported devices patched at once.
* App sandboxing prevents apps from accessing each other's data without permission.
* iCloud Keychain securely stores passwords across devices.
* Find My iPhone can locate, lock, or erase lost devices.
* Consistent OS and app behavior reduces confusion, errors, and accidental security lapses.
* App notarization and runtime protections block malicious or tampered apps.
Android may allow more tweaks or system access, but those come with higher risk. iOS trades some flexibility for a chain of features that keep users safer and make daily device use simpler and more predictable.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 3, 2025 at 9:42:34'AM MST, "Marion" wrote
I would intelligently disagree with you
since there is no evidence that iOS is any more secure than Android.
What makes you think that?
You need to remember that I'm nothing like the average mobile phone owner.
I am intelligent. Well educated. And well informed. About phones.
Most people, including journalists, are 100% swayed by marketing.
I'm not.
I look to they professionals on security issues.
Not Apple's glossy marketing brochures or marketing white papers.
What we need to look up is stuff from the professionals.
Which is what I gave you.
Not marketing propaganda parroted by journalists.
If you look up anything you happen to know a lot about on the Internet, you'll find articles galore filled with bullshit fallacies. Right?
Take, for example, poison oak, which I know too much about (I need to write
a book on it). Almost everything on the net about poison oak, is wrong.
Like, oh, that it spreads from person to person by skin contact.
Or, oh, that you can "desensitize" yourself by eating it.
Or, oh, that "leaves of three, leave it be" is how to identify it.
Most sources say iOS is generally more secure than
Android for several reasons.
Most sources on premium gasoline versus regular say that premium is better,
and many recommend using premium once ever few fillups, for what?
If you buy tier one gasoline, the detergents are the same in both
(poly ether amines, formerly trademarked as "Techron" is in all gas).
My point is that "most sources" are spewing bullshit.
You need a source which is from a reliable exploit professional.
Which are the sources I had provided to you to read.
Google Project Zero proved, for example, huge swaths of iOS code couldn't possible ever have been tested (it's in one of the sources I had given
you).
What good is all that lack of functionality when the functionality that is written into the iOS code has never even once been tested by Apple's QA?
Apple tightly controls its App Store, reviewing
all apps, which makes malware far less common than on Android, where
sideloading is easy.
Again and again, you point to a single component of the chain to declare
the entire chain's strength.
The fact iOS is no more secure than Android is the only fact you need.
iOS apps are strictly sandboxed, limiting what they can
access, and the OS and hardware are built with strong security features like >> the Secure Enclave and default full-disk encryption. Updates are delivered >> quickly to almost all devices, unlike Android's fragmented update system. In >> the wild, malware incidents are far rarer on iOS, and security research shows
Apple patches vulnerabilities faster. Overall, the controlled ecosystem, rapid
updates, and hardware-backed protections make iOS harder to compromise for >> average users.
All this is one chain in a long chain.
What good is all that when Google proved huge swaths of iOS code has never been tested, and when we know that many times Apple 'fixed' a bug and then two releases later, the exact same bug shows up (again & again & again!).
Apple has no QA.
That's one of the components of the chain.
You need to remember that I am intelligent. Well educated.
And well informed.
I'm well informed about Craig Federighi's comments about his own QA.
Android sees thousands of malware infections every year, mostly from
sideloaded apps or unvetted stores, including trojans, spyware, and adware. >> iOS infections are extremely rare outside jailbroken devices or targeted
attacks, with very few cases in the wild. For typical users, iOS is far less >> likely to encounter malware.
While normal loading can add malware, the fact is that it's only one component of the chain, but I do agree that this one component adds more security issues to Android than it would to iOS. No doubt about that.
But what good is that one element of the chain when you are aware that iOS code has huge swaths that have never been tested by the QA department?
When you look at the entire chain of security, and when you look to the security professionals, iOS Is no more secure than Android.,
And that's what matters.
You gave up everything...
For nothing.
And the fact remains that iOS exploits are about the same as Android.
Which means, you lost everything for safety & you didn't get any safety.
You're right that security is a chain, but there's a difference between
potential exploits and real-world compromise. iOS does get zero-click
exploits, but they're extremely rare and usually patched within days.
OK. Now for once you're not spewing bullshit. Android has zero days also.
And Android patches them in days also. In fact, Android patches every
single one of the billions of Android 10+ phones over the Internet, every month, forever (look up Project Mainline for details).
Does Apple patch every phone every month forever?
And, even if we speak only of the current phones, are you aware that
Apple's promised full support is woefully less than Samsung/Google?
Sure, for five years, and a single OS release, you get good support from Apple for current iPhones, but Google/Samsung give you that same good
support for 7 years and multiple concurrent releases.
Remember always, I'm well informed.
Bullshit excuses don't work with me.
Security professionals, by and large, rate both ecosystems the same.
So you gave up everything...
For nothing.
Android
has more frequent malware in the wild because of its open ecosystem,
sideloading, and slower updates-so even if the kernel is technically "better"
in some sense, users are actually much more likely to be hit on Android.
No doubt that Android has more malware just as ebola is in sub saharan Africa. The question is why doesn't that translate to a more secure iOS?
Do you think perhaps the fact that iOS QA is atrocious plays a factor?
The "planes crash" analogy works: iOS users almost never experience malware >> crashes or data theft, whereas Android users encounter it regularly. So in >> practice, the chain is far stronger on iOS, even if no system is perfect.
I watch all the videos (e.g., Mentour Pilot) on plane crashes.
What do you think is the *single* cause of most plane crashes?
Hint: It's never a single cause. I's a chain of events. That's what
matters. Apple's iOS chain is no more secure than Android's chain.
That's what matters. The end result.
You can say your kid went to the best schools (like I did, for example).
But if the kid turns out to be a murderer, the end result is what matters.
You're right to claim above that iOS is not the best system since there are >>> no known zero-click exploits of the Android kernel, which, as you stated, >>> TLA's are attacking daily - but they can only penetrate iOS' kernel.
Zero-click exploits exist for both iOS and Android, but the key difference is
frequency and exposure. iOS zero-clicks are extremely rare and typically
patched quickly, while Android devices-especially older or unpatched ones-face
constant attacks via malware, sideloaded apps, and misconfigured services. So
even if some attacks can technically hit iOS, the practical risk for the
average user is much higher on Android. Security isn't just about whether an >> exploit exists-it's about how likely it is to affect real users.
My point about zero-click exploits by Pegasus of the iOS kernel is that the kernel is important for security.
Android's kernel has never been exploited with zero-click exploits.
The iOS kernel has been exploited many times by zero-click exploits.
That fact speaks for itself.
This is, of course, to our knowledge, but if Android was exploited, and if someone figured it out, it would be public in a heartbeat, simply because everyone knows the Android kernel is more secure than the iOS kernel to zero-click exploits.
But I do agree, as always, that the kernel is just one link in the chain. What matters is security pros don't assess iOS as more secure than Android.
Notice while the world calls normal loading on a mobile device
"sideloading", it's the normal way to load on any device but Apple's.
Sure, sideloading is common on most platforms,
Correction: Normal/side loading is on all platforms other than on iOS.
but that's part of why Android
sees far more malware. On iOS, the App Store is the default method, and it's >> heavily vetted-so "normal" loading for Apple users carries far less risk. On >> Android, what's normal for developers or enthusiasts exposes every device to >> more potential threats, so it's not just semantics-it's a real security
difference.
Android malware is indeed greater than iOS malware but that's only one
chain in the full security chain. If iOS has never been adequately tested
by QA, why don't you bring *that* fact up, instead of harping on malware?
The fact iOS has never been fully tested by Apple is critically important.
Google's project zero proved this in spades (you've been given the links).
Even Craig Federighi lamented that QA at Apple sucks in letters we posted
to this newsgroup which you can look up if you feel so inclined.
What matters is what security professionals think about the whole chain.
So, I agree that jailbroken/rooted devices tend to allow more malware.
Exactly-rooted or jailbroken devices open up far more attack surface, which is
why malware is more common there. Android's security can block legitimate
tweaks too, but that same protection helps prevent malware from running
unnoticed. On iOS, staying unjailbroken keeps users in that safer, controlled
environment, even if it limits some advanced tweaks.
And yet, I can't root my Android phone because Samsung locked the
bootloader. My point being that Samsung (which is the major competitor to Apple" doesn't allow the bootloader to be unlocked for most (all?) US devices.
It's just that, in reality, it's mostly worthless hype.
Even if most malware targets regions with less robust security, the numbers on
Android aren't trivial. AV vendors consistently report thousands of unique >> malware samples affecting Android devices every year, far more than iOS.
Scanning helps, but it doesn't stop every infection, especially with
sideloaded apps or unpatched devices. Calling it "hype" underestimates the >> real-world risk: the probability of compromise is much higher on Android, even
if the consequences for an individual user might sometimes be low.
I don't disagree that malware must be more prevalent on Android.
What I'm saying is security is a chain of things. Not just one thing.
For you to claim the only thing that matters to security is malware is a fallacious argument.
It's one component, for sure. But there's more.
The fact Apple's QA is atrocious is another link in that security chain.
Look it up. Google proved beyond any doubt Apple never tested much of iOS.
The very fact that kids find horrid bugs is another testament.
Also that Apple fixes holes and then opens them up again later.
This all is evidence, from professionals, Apple's QA is horrendous.
But what matters is the end result strength of the chain.
Apple's chain breaks on the same loading as Android's chain.
Even though the links are different.
But I do agree, don't get me wrong, Apple's iOS has "less" of that one
thing, but Apple has the same amount (or more) of everything else.
I get the analogy, but unlike Ebola, malware is actively spreading and
exploiting devices every day. On Android, infections are common enough to be a
real operational problem-banking trojans, adware, spyware, ransomware. On iOS,
infections are extremely rare outside targeted attacks or jailbroken devices.
So it's not just hype: in practical terms, iOS users face far fewer threats, >> even if no system is perfect in every other area.
Again and again, you harp on malware, which I already agree with you since
I never disagree with any logically sensible viewpoint. Only fools do that.
And I'm, no fool.
Have I mentioned yet I'm well educated, intelligent & well informed.
I agree that one link in the Android chain of security is malware, and that one link is weaker than the link in iOS. There is no doubt of that claim.
But that one link isn't the whole chain.
I bring up QA in retort, but I could bring up lots of links in the Apple chain that are weaker than that of Android.
The point is that security professionals won't claim that iOS or Android is more secure. Because neither is more secure than the other. That's a fact.
My point, which is an intellectual point I'm hoping you can understand, is >>> you can't claim the end result of a chain by claiming only one link is
secure.
I get what you're saying, but there's a difference between potential flaws and
actual exploitation. iOS may have recurring bugs, but most of them don't lead
to real-world compromises because of the layered protections-sandboxing,
hardware security, strict app review, rapid patches. Android has more
frequent, actively exploited malware because its chain is weaker in practice,
even if some individual components are technically more open. Security isn't >> perfect anywhere, but iOS users hit fewer real-world failures.
What matters in security is the entire chain of events.
Every link needs to be secure. Not just one or two links.
The security of iOS is no better than the security of Android.
So you gave up everything...
For nothing.
Find a security professional who says iOS is always more secure than
Android because I can't find that security professional. Can you?
However, I must commend you for writing what appears to be adult dialog.
There is evidence iOS is more secure: far fewer real-world malware infections,
faster patching of exploits, and stricter App Store vetting. On top of that, >> iOS offers daily usability and security benefits that as far as I know,
Android generally can't match (please correct me if Android does have some of
these... as I said, I am not an expert and am doing some research as we talk):
* Full-disk encryption by default protects all data automatically.
* Secure Enclave stores keys separately for Face ID, Touch ID, and Apple Pay.
* System-wide privacy controls let users control exactly which apps access >> camera, microphone, location, contacts, and more.
* AirDrop and Handoff make local and cross-device file sharing seamless and >> secure.
* Instant, uniform OS updates keep all supported devices patched at once.
* App sandboxing prevents apps from accessing each other's data without
permission.
* iCloud Keychain securely stores passwords across devices.
* Find My iPhone can locate, lock, or erase lost devices.
* Consistent OS and app behavior reduces confusion, errors, and accidental >> security lapses.
* App notarization and runtime protections block malicious or tampered apps. >>
Android may allow more tweaks or system access, but those come with higher >> risk. iOS trades some flexibility for a chain of features that keep users
safer and make daily device use simpler and more predictable.
Post a link, like I have done thousands of times already, from a reliable security expert, who claims that iOS is always more secure than Android.
Let's go through your examples quickly:<snip>
On 2025-11-03 14:03:56 +0000, Brock McNuggets said:
You're mixing a few things here, and the result doesn't really prove your
point. Every platform has had vulnerabilities -- iOS, Android, Windows, macOS,
you name it. The difference isn't that iOS is invincible, it's that Apple's >> security model drastically limits the scale and persistence of those attacks.
Let's go through your examples quickly:
* Pegasus / Predator / Triangulation / LightSpy -- these were nation-state >> exploits, using zero-click chains worth millions on the black market. They >> target diplomats, journalists, and activists. That doesn't mean "no security."
It means even the best systems get attacked at that level.
* XcodeGhost, YiSpecter, AceDeceiver, WireLurker -- all came from sideloading,
enterprise certificate abuse, or developers downloading tampered Xcode builds
from unofficial sites -- things that Apple's current notarization, Gatekeeper,
and certificate controls specifically block.
* KeyRaider -- jailbroken devices only, as you noted. Apple explicitly warns >> that jailbreaking disables the protections iOS relies on.
Android's openness is great for customization, but it's also why there's
constant background scanning, Play Protect, and a flood of malware variants >> every year. iOS's locked-down model isn't perfect, but it has orders of
magnitude fewer active malware families and infections in the wild -- that's >> not an opinion; it's in every yearly report from firms like Kaspersky,
Lookout, and Symantec.
So no, Apple didn't "lie." The tradeoff is real: less freedom to tinker for >> dramatically reduced attack surface and stronger containment. That's exactly >> why the same Pegasus chain costs more on iOS than Android -- it's harder to >> pull off.
If the argument is "I wish iOS let me do more power-user stuff," fair enough.
But pretending that both platforms are equally insecure isn't supported by >> evidence -- it's just a good-sounding soundbite for an anti-Apple rant.
Let's not and just killfile the utter moron troll instead. :-\
On Nov 3, 2025 at 3:03:15 PM MST, "Your Name" wrote <10eb8r3$36tmq$[email protected]>:<snip>
On 2025-11-03 14:03:56 +0000, Brock McNuggets said:
<snip>Let's go through your examples quickly:
Let's not and just killfile the utter moron troll instead. :-\
So do it. Please. It is not like you have anything of value to add.
The does not answer the question. Right now I am digging up studies and the like and they are not in agreement with your assessment.
I am looking at studies and they are not backing your view.
What we need to look up is stuff from the professionals.
Which is what I gave you.
Not marketing propaganda parroted by journalists.
I have said nothing about marketing. You keep jumping to that.
Most sources on premium gasoline versus regular say that premium is better,
Not what I have seen!
and many recommend using premium once ever few fillups, for what?
Where are you getting this? I have looked into that and found the opposite. Maybe you are just using less reliable sources than I do?
Google Project Zero proved, for example, huge swaths of iOS code couldn't
possible ever have been tested (it's in one of the sources I had given
you).
You are talking theory. I am looking up user experiences.
Again and again, you point to a single component of the chain to declare
the entire chain's strength.
I am noting the opposite. That the chain is tied to the end result. All of it.
The fact iOS is no more secure than Android is the only fact you need.
But it is not a "fact" you have been able to support for real world usage.
I'm well informed about Craig Federighi's comments about his own QA.
You speak of how you see yourself. I care more about iOS and Android and, in the current focus, how secure they are. You keep saying iOS is no more secure,
but that seems contrary to the research and you have not backed it.
I will post my list in a bit... still formatting, etc.
And still looking for more.
You gave up everything...
For nothing.
You keep saying this... but you offer no actual support.
Security professionals, by and large, rate both ecosystems the same.
Please back this claim.
So you gave up everything...
For nothing.
Please back this claim. So far the evidence I am finding is contrary to your opinion.
Do you think perhaps the fact that iOS QA is atrocious plays a factor?
Both have QA issues. One UI 7 was pulled for issues. Galaxy S20 had issues with the home and back buttons working. This gives a whole list:
https://www.simplymac.com/android/common-issues-with-the-samsung-galaxy-line-of-phones
Neither is close to perfect. Not sure if we have quantified the QA issues on either.
I watch all the videos (e.g., Mentour Pilot) on plane crashes.
What do you think is the *single* cause of most plane crashes?
Something that is not relevant here.
Hint: It's never a single cause. I's a chain of events. That's what
matters. Apple's iOS chain is no more secure than Android's chain.
That's what matters. The end result.
And that is what I am looking into... and the end result seems to be iOS is a lot more secure. You say otherwise but do not show evidence.
You can say your kid went to the best schools (like I did, for example).
But if the kid turns out to be a murderer, the end result is what matters.
Yet you keep looking at the trees and not the forest.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
The does not answer the question. Right now I am digging up studies and the >> like and they are not in agreement with your assessment.
I have higher degrees so I am well aware that people guess wrongly.
I'm also well aware that science progresses forward from wrong guesses.
Most people guess that the iPHone is "more secure" than Android simply because Apple says so.
And, Apple gives, as arguments, that they locked up
iOS for that purpose.
OK. Fair enough. So iOS should be more secure since it's locked up, right? ANd yet, it's not.
So where is the security you paid so dearly for?=
That is the question you need to answer.
I already know the answer as I've researched this for years.
I am looking at studies and they are not backing your view.
Remember, I can find tons of articles that say you have to have 1 to 4
parts per million of chlorine in your outdoor residential pool.
And yet, that's utter bullshit.
Yet, I can find a billion articles on the Internet that claim that.
But it's bullshit.
If you understand pool chemistry, you'd know it's bullshit.
I can give you the links from people who know, like Richard Falk.
Richard Falk is an expert on pool chemistry.
He would NEVER claim you need 1-4ppm of free chlorine to sanitize an
outdoor pool. Neither would have Bob Lowry, who died recently.
Nor would anyone on TPF or Eric Knight at Orenda.
The professionals know that the ubiquitious requirement of keeping an
outdoor pool at 1 to 4 ppm free chlorine is simply complete bullshit.
Just like almost anything journalists say about security on the iPhone.
What we need to look up is stuff from the professionals.
Which is what I gave you.
Not marketing propaganda parroted by journalists.
I have said nothing about marketing. You keep jumping to that.
So far, in the past few posts, you've actged like an adult so I hve to be careful not to paint you with the same brush as the likes of the trolls.
Classic Apple trolls:
1. Jolly Roger <===> Lewis (thank God he's gone)
2. Alan Baker <===> Joerg Lorenz
3. Haemactylus <===> Your Name <===> -hh
4. Alan Browne <===> Chris <===> JF Mezei (thank God he's gone)
5. nospam <===> he is in a category of his own (thank God he's gone)
The only "facts" the Apple trolls know are what Apple marketing fed them.
Just like people think high octane gasoline is "better" than regular.
Just because big oil's brilliant marketing has told them so.
Most sources on premium gasoline versus regular say that premium is better, >>Not what I have seen!
Oh jeez. You have to remember I'm intelligent. And well educated.
If you don't know the difference betwen regular & premium, then you're not.
and many recommend using premium once ever few fillups, for what?
Where are you getting this? I have looked into that and found the opposite. >> Maybe you are just using less reliable sources than I do?
Oh my God. Seriously. Oh my God. Look it up before you say that garbage.
Just like you need to look up "Project Mainline" before you spoute that iPhones are supported "longer" than Android, you need to look up 2 things.,
1. Top tier gasoline (specifically Poly ether amines in them), and,
2. (RON + MON)/2 = AKI (specifically what that means in an engine fuel)
If you don't understand those two data snippets, you have absolutely no business making any assessments about gasoline other than it tastes bad.
Google Project Zero proved, for example, huge swaths of iOS code couldn't >>> possible ever have been tested (it's in one of the sources I had given
you).
You are talking theory. I am looking up user experiences.
Huh? Google takes deeeeeeeeep dives into the iOS code to unravel exploits. It's Google who said there's no way in hell Apple ever tested that code.
Take it up with Google (or with Apple's atrocious QA engineers) if you
don't like it. But it's proven that Apple never tested much of iOS code.
To deny proven facts is what the Apple trolls do.
Don't do that.
Read the links I gave you (and which we've discussed a thousand times).
On 2025-11-03 22:17:58 +0000, Brock McNuggets said:
On Nov 3, 2025 at 3:03:15 PM MST, "Your Name" wrote<snip>
<10eb8r3$36tmq$[email protected]>:
On 2025-11-03 14:03:56 +0000, Brock McNuggets said:
<snip>Let's go through your examples quickly:
Let's not and just killfile the utter moron troll instead. :-\
So do it. Please. It is not like you have anything of value to add.
I've already killfiled the moronic troll ages ago, but fools keeping
replying to his inane nonsense. Just completely ignore the idiot and
he'll get bored and go away. :-(
1. https://www.getastra.com/blog/security-audit/malware-statistics/ -- Android
devices are 50x more likely to be infected than iOS devices, showing the starkest difference in malware prevalence.
And as far as Android doing things iOS cannot... sure. Discussed. But you avoid the things iOS does better than Android:
I do not know Android well, so if I am wrong about some of those please correct me and show evidence.
And yet, the reason Apple locked you in has nothing to do with security.
You've repeatedly stated that iOS is no more secure than Android.
Right now,
I'm looking at peer-reviewed and other reputable sources to either support or refute that claim. I've found a few so far, but based on the literature, I suspect the majority would likely say iOS has some inherent and real-world security advantages.
As I've mentioned, my direct experience with Android is limited.
I have no
personal stake in declaring one platform "better."
From my small circle of
friends who have switched devices, those who moved to iOS reported being happier with the change than those who moved to Android.
with Android long-term.
That said, this is far from a scientific observation and may reflect my biases
or faulty recollection.
What people consistently mention are ease of use and consistency.
While I
haven't compared iOS and Android extensively, I do have experience with macOS,
Windows, and Linux. Apple has historically done very well in creating a consistent, polished user experience on macOS, and that translates to iOS. I do not know how well Samsung does with Android (no less other venders).
I use macOS, which is a major reason I prefer iOS. The integration is excellent -- iCloud syncs across devices, I can manage my phone from my laptop, the design language is consistent (even more so in version 26), and Handoff works (mostly) flawlessly.
That said, I would love the opportunity to use an Android device to learn more. Most of what I know about Android comes from online research and limited
exposure, so I'm fairly open about my lack of hands-on knowledge.
For me, usability tends to be more of a focus than security. Some studies indicate iOS users seek help more frequently. This could reflect that iOS users attempt more complex tasks, or it could suggest that Android is easier to navigate. Other studies show that iOS users report higher satisfaction with
their devices, but among high-end models, differences are minor. Both platforms, however, present challenges in accessing and configuring security settings. My takeaway is that defaults and out-of-the-box configuration are important.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
And yet, the reason Apple locked you in has nothing to do with security.
You've repeatedly stated that iOS is no more secure than Android.
Let's cut to the bottom line. There is a reason iOS is locked up.
But it's not security.
If it was because of security, then there would be security.
But there is no added security.
So you lost everything.
And gained nothing in return.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
And yet, the reason Apple locked you in has nothing to do with security.
You've repeatedly stated that iOS is no more secure than Android.
Let's cut to the bottom line. There is a reason iOS is locked up.
But it's not security.
If it was because of security, then there would be security.
But there is no added security.
So you lost everything.
And gained nothing in return.
Apple lied that it's security.
They did it for a different reason.
Right now,
I'm looking at peer-reviewed and other reputable sources to either support or
refute that claim. I've found a few so far, but based on the literature, I >> suspect the majority would likely say iOS has some inherent and real-world >> security advantages.
That's like saying a Harley motorcycle is better than a Honda motorcycle.
I'm sure some things are better. I'm sure some are worse.
And a lot is open to interpretation.
Any sweeping claim about "security" is open to interpretation.
For example, look at the security if the CISA KEV database.
What did you find out when you looked?
Note that Chris & I have spent scores of hours on analyzing that database. What did you find out about it when you looked.
What did it say about the sheer number of iOS zero-day exploits compared to that of Android? Here's a batch script I personally wrote to look at KEV.
However, I (and others) have told you that CISA data is not generalisable. CISA is niche and biased. No global claims of security or differences
between android or iOS can be made.
What did it say about the sheer number of iOS zero-day exploits compared to >> that of Android? Here's a batch script I personally wrote to look at KEV.
Which is flawed in several ways. Here's a better* view of the data and includes links to a medium post with details all the issues with CISA.
https://rpubs.com/ithinkiam/cisa2025
* conflict of interest: I did it.
So you lost everything.
And gained nothing in return.
This is contrary to the evidence.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
So you lost everything.
And gained nothing in return.
This is contrary to the evidence.
And yet, your claim malware is they only measure of security is absurd.
There isn't a security professional in the world who agrees with you.
What did you find when you looked at the CISA KEV database?
Both Chris & I have spent scores of hours scouring that data.
Here's a look from Chris:
<https://rpubs.com/ithinkiam/cisa2025>
What's your assessment of that reliable CISA KEV database?
Chris wrote:
However, I (and others) have told you that CISA data is not generalisable. >> CISA is niche and biased. No global claims of security or differences
between android or iOS can be made.
Chris,
I didn't say it was.
But this Brock McNuggets guy doesn't e3ven know about CISA KEV.
If you don't even know about CISA KEV, then you know nothing, right?
Maybe someone needs to tell this "Brock" guy that he gave up everything for security, and yet he got no better security than Android has?
Marion <[email protected]> wrote:
Brock McNuggets wrote:
And yet, the reason Apple locked you in has nothing to do with security. >>>You've repeatedly stated that iOS is no more secure than Android.
Let's cut to the bottom line. There is a reason iOS is locked up.
But it's not security.
If it was because of security, then there would be security.
But there is no added security.
So you lost everything.
And gained nothing in return.
Apple lied that it's security.
They did it for a different reason.
Right now,
I'm looking at peer-reviewed and other reputable sources to either support or
refute that claim. I've found a few so far, but based on the literature, I >>> suspect the majority would likely say iOS has some inherent and real-world >>> security advantages.
That's like saying a Harley motorcycle is better than a Honda motorcycle.
I'm sure some things are better. I'm sure some are worse.
And a lot is open to interpretation.
Any sweeping claim about "security" is open to interpretation.
For example, look at the security if the CISA KEV database.
What did you find out when you looked?
Note that Chris & I have spent scores of hours on analyzing that database. >> What did you find out about it when you looked.
Please don't drag me into your paranoid world. Yes, I helped you understand the raw data and corrected your numbers. At least you learned something there.
However, I (and others) have told you that CISA data is not generalisable. CISA is niche and biased. No global claims of security or differences
between android or iOS can be made.
What did it say about the sheer number of iOS zero-day exploits compared to >> that of Android? Here's a batch script I personally wrote to look at KEV.
Which is flawed in several ways. Here's a better* view of the data and includes links to a medium post with details all the issues with CISA. https://rpubs.com/ithinkiam/cisa2025
* conflict of interest: I did it.
Chris wrote:
However, I (and others) have told you that CISA data is not generalisable. >> CISA is niche and biased. No global claims of security or differences
between android or iOS can be made.
Chris,
I didn't say it was.
But this Brock McNuggets guy doesn't e3ven know about CISA KEV.
If you don't even know about CISA KEV, then you know nothing, right?
What did it say about the sheer number of iOS zero-day exploits compared toWhich is flawed in several ways. Here's a better* view of the data and
that of Android? Here's a batch script I personally wrote to look at KEV. >>
includes links to a medium post with details all the issues with CISA.
While I never said CISA KEV is the only measure of security, it's one.
I'm actually HAPPY you (and I) looked into what it claims to be.
It's super reliable.
It's just not everything. Not even close.
But for what it is, it's super reliable.
Nothing is more reliable, in fact.
We *both* looked deeply at that CISA KEV database.
That's a huge credit to both of us.
Do you think Alan Baker would ever do that?
First of all, he can't - but he wouldn't do it.
Same with this Brock McNuggets guy.
There is no indication he knows anything about it.
And yet, somehow, he feels "qualified" to compare iOS & Android security. That's why I bring it up.
He knows nothing.
And yet, he thinks he does.
https://rpubs.com/ithinkiam/cisa2025
* conflict of interest: I did it.
Regarding <https://rpubs.com/ithinkiam/cisa2025>, I'm happy you looked at
it, since I'm a scientist & engineer. The data has to be scrutinized.
As you show, Apple is only second to Microsoft in the bar chart
titled "Total exploited vulnerabilities since 2021".
Android is nowhere near, although there are many ways to slice the data.
Your table of Apple iOS vulnerabilities by year is telling:
2021 14
2022 26
2023 21
2024 7
2025 7
When compared to that of Android:
Year Count
2021 1
2022 7
2023 5
2024 6
2025 1
Although, again, as you and I well know, it's difficult to parse the CISA
KEV data because of how they report things in hard-to-search-for ways.
After delving deeply into the CISA KEV database for 40 hours or so, I won't claim iOS is better or worse than Android - but - it's "about the same".
Which is telling.
Because you gave up everything for security.
And didn't get it.
Why not?
HINT: Apple lied. Apple didn't do it for security.
Maybe someone needs to tell this "Brock" guy that he gave up everything for security, and yet he got no better security than Android has?
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