Summing up a month. Transition to Mac OS has not been seamless, but
Google is a big help. I got along fine in Windows, and just basically
had to learn a different dialect, not a whole new language.
Except for Quicken apps mostly did not change.
Quicken for Mac is VERY different. The interface and workflow are not at
all the same. However, I'm finding that the Mac version can do all the
same things if you just hunt around and spend time to learn. There are a
few workflow differences that are actually more efficient on Mac.
I transitioned to Safari this week, and glad I did. It is in a few ways better organized than Chrome or Edge.
Transition to the hardware has been an absolute joy. You can guess why. Battery life, no fans, no heat, less weight, fluid screen refreshes, no stuttering, instant response, visually more consistent interface, worked great with my existing software and hardware base. The only other thing
I had to buy was a SD card dongle.
But, one little complaint. After hearing for years about Windows coming
with program bloat I find that Mac OS does too. I cannot delete these
apps that I have zero use for mostly because I have substitutes:
Chess
Books
Calendar
Freeform
Home
Music
News
and
TV among a few others.
All together about 1 GB of clutter and disk space.
On 3/20/26 5:14 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 20, 2026 at 10:40:51 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wrote
<10pk0r6$1q1hb$[email protected]>:
Summing up a month. Transition to Mac OS has not been seamless, but
Google is a big help. I got along fine in Windows, and just basically
had to learn a different dialect, not a whole new language.
Except for Quicken apps mostly did not change.
Quicken for Mac is VERY different. The interface and workflow are not at >>> all the same. However, I'm finding that the Mac version can do all the
same things if you just hunt around and spend time to learn. There are a >>> few workflow differences that are actually more efficient on Mac.
I transitioned to Safari this week, and glad I did. It is in a few ways
better organized than Chrome or Edge.
Do you have any specific examples?
Transition to the hardware has been an absolute joy. You can guess why.
Battery life, no fans, no heat, less weight, fluid screen refreshes, no
stuttering, instant response, visually more consistent interface, worked >>> great with my existing software and hardware base. The only other thing
I had to buy was a SD card dongle.
But, one little complaint. After hearing for years about Windows coming
with program bloat I find that Mac OS does too. I cannot delete these
apps that I have zero use for mostly because I have substitutes:
Chess
Books
Calendar
Freeform
Home
Music
News
and
TV among a few others.
All together about 1 GB of clutter and disk space.
You cannot delete those, but they do not really do any harm (other
than space,
I guess). Still, it is not the same as the trial-ware and adware and
the like.
And some of those apps are to some extent front ends for system
services other
apps use -- Calendar for example. Oh, and to be fair, Apple is
including some
of its own adware these days. Apps pushing their bundles and having
ads (such
as News). Not a big deal, but not a trend I like.
One small Safari example - you can have your Favorites as a drop-down at
the top or in a sidebar, or both.
Books, News, Music, Home and TV are all Apple paid services or products.
Books - We have a Kindle subscription
News - I use several sources
Music - YouTube Music is included in my Premium subscription
Home - We use Google Home
TV - we have 4 Roku TV sets
And I cannot remove them from this Mac.
On 3/21/26 5:30 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 21, 2026 at 7:52:24 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wroteThe Dell XPS the Mac is replacing had 0 3rd party slop from the factory.
<10pmbbc$2hagk$[email protected]>:
On 3/20/26 5:14 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 20, 2026 at 10:40:51 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wrote
<10pk0r6$1q1hb$[email protected]>:
Summing up a month. Transition to Mac OS has not been seamless, but
Google is a big help. I got along fine in Windows, and just basically >>>>> had to learn a different dialect, not a whole new language.
Except for Quicken apps mostly did not change.
Quicken for Mac is VERY different. The interface and workflow are
not at
all the same. However, I'm finding that the Mac version can do all the >>>>> same things if you just hunt around and spend time to learn. There
are a
few workflow differences that are actually more efficient on Mac.
I transitioned to Safari this week, and glad I did. It is in a few
ways
better organized than Chrome or Edge.
Do you have any specific examples?
Transition to the hardware has been an absolute joy. You can guess
why.
Battery life, no fans, no heat, less weight, fluid screen
refreshes, no
stuttering, instant response, visually more consistent interface,
worked
great with my existing software and hardware base. The only other
thing
I had to buy was a SD card dongle.
But, one little complaint. After hearing for years about Windows
coming
with program bloat I find that Mac OS does too. I cannot delete these >>>>> apps that I have zero use for mostly because I have substitutes:
Chess
Books
Calendar
Freeform
Home
Music
News
and
TV among a few others.
All together about 1 GB of clutter and disk space.
You cannot delete those, but they do not really do any harm (other
than space,
I guess). Still, it is not the same as the trial-ware and adware and
the like.
And some of those apps are to some extent front ends for system
services other
apps use -- Calendar for example. Oh, and to be fair, Apple is
including some
of its own adware these days. Apps pushing their bundles and having
ads (such
as News). Not a big deal, but not a trend I like.
One small Safari example - you can have your Favorites as a drop-down at >>> the top or in a sidebar, or both.
OK, fair. I mostly have them at the top -- but also have a button I
can push
to easily hide them. Useful for making videos for folks where they do
not see
my (too many) Favorites.
Books, News, Music, Home and TV are all Apple paid services or products. >>>
Books - We have a Kindle subscription
News - I use several sources
Music - YouTube Music is included in my Premium subscription
Home - We use Google Home
TV - we have 4 Roku TV sets
Pretty much the same for me... I use Google News and other sources. I use
Pandora and my own downloaded music. Did have a free trial of Apple
Music and
it was pretty good, but not with the money to me. I do use the app
though.
Also use Roku.
And I cannot remove them from this Mac.
You can... but it is not recommended or obvious how. Means reducing
security
(disabling System Integrity Protection (SIP)) and more... and you do
not get
back all the space you thought you would. These are built into the
system...
not quite the same as the third party stuff you often get with Windows.
But that is likely an exception for Windows machines.
But I DO NOT understand how CHESS, Music or Books are baked into Mac OS!
But NOT iOS! So I hid them. Like I said above, it's a small issue.
On 2026-03-22 12:23, Tom Elam wrote:
On 3/21/26 5:30 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 21, 2026 at 7:52:24 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wroteThe Dell XPS the Mac is replacing had 0 3rd party slop from the
<10pmbbc$2hagk$[email protected]>:
On 3/20/26 5:14 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 20, 2026 at 10:40:51 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wrote
<10pk0r6$1q1hb$[email protected]>:
Summing up a month. Transition to Mac OS has not been seamless, but >>>>>> Google is a big help. I got along fine in Windows, and just basically >>>>>> had to learn a different dialect, not a whole new language.
Except for Quicken apps mostly did not change.
Quicken for Mac is VERY different. The interface and workflow are >>>>>> not at
all the same. However, I'm finding that the Mac version can do all >>>>>> the
same things if you just hunt around and spend time to learn. There >>>>>> are a
few workflow differences that are actually more efficient on Mac.
I transitioned to Safari this week, and glad I did. It is in a few >>>>>> ways
better organized than Chrome or Edge.
Do you have any specific examples?
Transition to the hardware has been an absolute joy. You can guess >>>>>> why.
Battery life, no fans, no heat, less weight, fluid screen
refreshes, no
stuttering, instant response, visually more consistent interface, >>>>>> worked
great with my existing software and hardware base. The only other >>>>>> thing
I had to buy was a SD card dongle.
But, one little complaint. After hearing for years about Windows
coming
with program bloat I find that Mac OS does too. I cannot delete these >>>>>> apps that I have zero use for mostly because I have substitutes:
Chess
Books
Calendar
Freeform
Home
Music
News
and
TV among a few others.
All together about 1 GB of clutter and disk space.
You cannot delete those, but they do not really do any harm (other
than space,
I guess). Still, it is not the same as the trial-ware and adware
and the like.
And some of those apps are to some extent front ends for system
services other
apps use -- Calendar for example. Oh, and to be fair, Apple is
including some
of its own adware these days. Apps pushing their bundles and having >>>>> ads (such
as News). Not a big deal, but not a trend I like.
One small Safari example - you can have your Favorites as a drop-
down at
the top or in a sidebar, or both.
OK, fair. I mostly have them at the top -- but also have a button I
can push
to easily hide them. Useful for making videos for folks where they do
not see
my (too many) Favorites.
Books, News, Music, Home and TV are all Apple paid services or
products.
Books - We have a Kindle subscription
News - I use several sources
Music - YouTube Music is included in my Premium subscription
Home - We use Google Home
TV - we have 4 Roku TV sets
Pretty much the same for me... I use Google News and other sources. I
use
Pandora and my own downloaded music. Did have a free trial of Apple
Music and
it was pretty good, but not with the money to me. I do use the app
though.
Also use Roku.
And I cannot remove them from this Mac.
You can... but it is not recommended or obvious how. Means reducing
security
(disabling System Integrity Protection (SIP)) and more... and you do
not get
back all the space you thought you would. These are built into the
system...
not quite the same as the third party stuff you often get with Windows.
factory. But that is likely an exception for Windows machines.
But I DO NOT understand how CHESS, Music or Books are baked into Mac
OS! But NOT iOS! So I hid them. Like I said above, it's a small issue.
A small man making a big deal of a TINY issue, you mean.
On 2026-04-24 2:25 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-03-22 12:23, Tom Elam wrote:
On 3/21/26 5:30 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 21, 2026 at 7:52:24 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wroteThe Dell XPS the Mac is replacing had 0 3rd party slop from the
<10pmbbc$2hagk$[email protected]>:
On 3/20/26 5:14 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 20, 2026 at 10:40:51 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wrote
<10pk0r6$1q1hb$[email protected]>:
Summing up a month. Transition to Mac OS has not been seamless, but >>>>>>> Google is a big help. I got along fine in Windows, and just
basically
had to learn a different dialect, not a whole new language.
Except for Quicken apps mostly did not change.
Quicken for Mac is VERY different. The interface and workflow are >>>>>>> not at
all the same. However, I'm finding that the Mac version can do
all the
same things if you just hunt around and spend time to learn.
There are a
few workflow differences that are actually more efficient on Mac. >>>>>>>
I transitioned to Safari this week, and glad I did. It is in a
few ways
better organized than Chrome or Edge.
Do you have any specific examples?
Transition to the hardware has been an absolute joy. You can
guess why.
Battery life, no fans, no heat, less weight, fluid screen
refreshes, no
stuttering, instant response, visually more consistent interface, >>>>>>> worked
great with my existing software and hardware base. The only other >>>>>>> thing
I had to buy was a SD card dongle.
But, one little complaint. After hearing for years about Windows >>>>>>> coming
with program bloat I find that Mac OS does too. I cannot delete >>>>>>> these
apps that I have zero use for mostly because I have substitutes: >>>>>>>
Chess
Books
Calendar
Freeform
Home
Music
News
and
TV among a few others.
All together about 1 GB of clutter and disk space.
You cannot delete those, but they do not really do any harm (other >>>>>> than space,
I guess). Still, it is not the same as the trial-ware and adware
and the like.
And some of those apps are to some extent front ends for system
services other
apps use -- Calendar for example. Oh, and to be fair, Apple is
including some
of its own adware these days. Apps pushing their bundles and
having ads (such
as News). Not a big deal, but not a trend I like.
One small Safari example - you can have your Favorites as a drop-
down at
the top or in a sidebar, or both.
OK, fair. I mostly have them at the top -- but also have a button I
can push
to easily hide them. Useful for making videos for folks where they
do not see
my (too many) Favorites.
Books, News, Music, Home and TV are all Apple paid services or
products.
Books - We have a Kindle subscription
News - I use several sources
Music - YouTube Music is included in my Premium subscription
Home - We use Google Home
TV - we have 4 Roku TV sets
Pretty much the same for me... I use Google News and other sources.
I use
Pandora and my own downloaded music. Did have a free trial of Apple
Music and
it was pretty good, but not with the money to me. I do use the app
though.
Also use Roku.
And I cannot remove them from this Mac.
You can... but it is not recommended or obvious how. Means reducing
security
(disabling System Integrity Protection (SIP)) and more... and you do
not get
back all the space you thought you would. These are built into the
system...
not quite the same as the third party stuff you often get with Windows. >>>>
factory. But that is likely an exception for Windows machines.
But I DO NOT understand how CHESS, Music or Books are baked into Mac
OS! But NOT iOS! So I hid them. Like I said above, it's a small issue.
A small man making a big deal of a TINY issue, you mean.
It sucks that certain applications can't be removed, but it's still a minimal problem compared to how much bloat most manufacturers leave on Windows machines they sell. However, there is such bloat in just about
every desktop environment, including Linux ones. For example, I can't
remove Edge on Windows. Windows also sets up OneDrive despite my lack of interest in it. On the Linux side, some iterations of KDE pressure you
to use the built-in password manager and on some versions of the Ubuntu distribution, attempting to remove Firefox breaks the metapackage for
some reason. I'm sure it's been fixed by now, but it was an issue for a while.
Either way, it's a rather common practice.
On 2026-04-24 12:28, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-04-24 2:25 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-03-22 12:23, Tom Elam wrote:
On 3/21/26 5:30 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 21, 2026 at 7:52:24 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wroteThe Dell XPS the Mac is replacing had 0 3rd party slop from the
<10pmbbc$2hagk$[email protected]>:
On 3/20/26 5:14 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 20, 2026 at 10:40:51 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wrote
<10pk0r6$1q1hb$[email protected]>:
Summing up a month. Transition to Mac OS has not been seamless, but >>>>>>>> Google is a big help. I got along fine in Windows, and just
basically
had to learn a different dialect, not a whole new language.
Except for Quicken apps mostly did not change.
Quicken for Mac is VERY different. The interface and workflow >>>>>>>> are not at
all the same. However, I'm finding that the Mac version can do >>>>>>>> all the
same things if you just hunt around and spend time to learn.
There are a
few workflow differences that are actually more efficient on Mac. >>>>>>>>
I transitioned to Safari this week, and glad I did. It is in a >>>>>>>> few ways
better organized than Chrome or Edge.
Do you have any specific examples?
Transition to the hardware has been an absolute joy. You can
guess why.
Battery life, no fans, no heat, less weight, fluid screen
refreshes, no
stuttering, instant response, visually more consistent
interface, worked
great with my existing software and hardware base. The only
other thing
I had to buy was a SD card dongle.
But, one little complaint. After hearing for years about Windows >>>>>>>> coming
with program bloat I find that Mac OS does too. I cannot delete >>>>>>>> these
apps that I have zero use for mostly because I have substitutes: >>>>>>>>
Chess
Books
Calendar
Freeform
Home
Music
News
and
TV among a few others.
All together about 1 GB of clutter and disk space.
You cannot delete those, but they do not really do any harm
(other than space,
I guess). Still, it is not the same as the trial-ware and adware >>>>>>> and the like.
And some of those apps are to some extent front ends for system >>>>>>> services other
apps use -- Calendar for example. Oh, and to be fair, Apple is
including some
of its own adware these days. Apps pushing their bundles and
having ads (such
as News). Not a big deal, but not a trend I like.
One small Safari example - you can have your Favorites as a drop- >>>>>> down at
the top or in a sidebar, or both.
OK, fair. I mostly have them at the top -- but also have a button I >>>>> can push
to easily hide them. Useful for making videos for folks where they
do not see
my (too many) Favorites.
Books, News, Music, Home and TV are all Apple paid services or
products.
Books - We have a Kindle subscription
News - I use several sources
Music - YouTube Music is included in my Premium subscription
Home - We use Google Home
TV - we have 4 Roku TV sets
Pretty much the same for me... I use Google News and other sources. >>>>> I use
Pandora and my own downloaded music. Did have a free trial of Apple >>>>> Music and
it was pretty good, but not with the money to me. I do use the app
though.
Also use Roku.
And I cannot remove them from this Mac.
You can... but it is not recommended or obvious how. Means reducing >>>>> security
(disabling System Integrity Protection (SIP)) and more... and you
do not get
back all the space you thought you would. These are built into the
system...
not quite the same as the third party stuff you often get with
Windows.
factory. But that is likely an exception for Windows machines.
But I DO NOT understand how CHESS, Music or Books are baked into Mac
OS! But NOT iOS! So I hid them. Like I said above, it's a small issue.
A small man making a big deal of a TINY issue, you mean.
It sucks that certain applications can't be removed, but it's still a
minimal problem compared to how much bloat most manufacturers leave on
Windows machines they sell. However, there is such bloat in just about
every desktop environment, including Linux ones. For example, I can't
remove Edge on Windows. Windows also sets up OneDrive despite my lack
of interest in it. On the Linux side, some iterations of KDE pressure
you to use the built-in password manager and on some versions of the
Ubuntu distribution, attempting to remove Firefox breaks the
metapackage for some reason. I'm sure it's been fixed by now, but it
was an issue for a while.
Either way, it's a rather common practice.
He doesn't even understand what he's reading.
There are 46 applications in the folder /System/Applications on macOS
Tahoe 26.4.1:
Weather.app; App Store.app; Apps.app; Automator.app; Books.app; Calculator.app; Calendar.app; Chess.app; Clock.app; Contacts.app; Dictionary.app; FaceTime.app; Find My.app; Font Book.app; Freeform.app; Games.app; Home.app; Image Capture.app; Image Playground.app; iPhone Mirroring.app; Journal.app; Mail.app; Maps.app; Messages.app; Mission Control.app; Music.app; News.app; Notes.app; Passwords.app; Phone.app;
Photo Booth.app; Photos.app; Podcasts.app; Preview.app; QuickTime Player.app; Reminders.app; Shortcuts.app; Siri.app; Stickies.app; Stocks.app; System Settings.app; TextEdit.app; Time Machine.app;
Tips.app; TV.app; Voice Memos.app
All of them together use 623.3MB on disk.
Adding in the 18 additional applications in /System/Applications/
Utilities brings that number to 722.5MB...
...or 0.07% of a 1TB drive.
Now what Liarboy/Tommie-twit is reading is the larger number that is
also reported by the Finder's "Show Inspector" panel (which allows you
to "Get Info" on multiple items at once).
That number is 1,293,716,971 bytes; still a bagatelle, but it lets him
whine about his "gigabyte" of "bloat" (which even on a 256GB entry-level machine is just 0.5%)...
...without him ever trying to understand (or maybe even NOTICE) that hte actual space on disk is less...
...because macOS uses the APFS which lets multiple applications actually share the same data/code stored on the disk.
On 2026-04-24 4:54 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-04-24 12:28, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-04-24 2:25 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-03-22 12:23, Tom Elam wrote:
On 3/21/26 5:30 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 21, 2026 at 7:52:24 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wroteThe Dell XPS the Mac is replacing had 0 3rd party slop from the
<10pmbbc$2hagk$[email protected]>:
On 3/20/26 5:14 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 20, 2026 at 10:40:51 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wrote
<10pk0r6$1q1hb$[email protected]>:
Summing up a month. Transition to Mac OS has not been seamless, >>>>>>>>> but
Google is a big help. I got along fine in Windows, and just >>>>>>>>> basically
had to learn a different dialect, not a whole new language.
Except for Quicken apps mostly did not change.
Quicken for Mac is VERY different. The interface and workflow >>>>>>>>> are not at
all the same. However, I'm finding that the Mac version can do >>>>>>>>> all the
same things if you just hunt around and spend time to learn. >>>>>>>>> There are a
few workflow differences that are actually more efficient on Mac. >>>>>>>>>
I transitioned to Safari this week, and glad I did. It is in a >>>>>>>>> few ways
better organized than Chrome or Edge.
Do you have any specific examples?
Transition to the hardware has been an absolute joy. You can >>>>>>>>> guess why.
Battery life, no fans, no heat, less weight, fluid screen
refreshes, no
stuttering, instant response, visually more consistent
interface, worked
great with my existing software and hardware base. The only >>>>>>>>> other thing
I had to buy was a SD card dongle.
But, one little complaint. After hearing for years about
Windows coming
with program bloat I find that Mac OS does too. I cannot delete >>>>>>>>> these
apps that I have zero use for mostly because I have substitutes: >>>>>>>>>
Chess
Books
Calendar
Freeform
Home
Music
News
and
TV among a few others.
All together about 1 GB of clutter and disk space.
You cannot delete those, but they do not really do any harm
(other than space,
I guess). Still, it is not the same as the trial-ware and adware >>>>>>>> and the like.
And some of those apps are to some extent front ends for system >>>>>>>> services other
apps use -- Calendar for example. Oh, and to be fair, Apple is >>>>>>>> including some
of its own adware these days. Apps pushing their bundles and
having ads (such
as News). Not a big deal, but not a trend I like.
One small Safari example - you can have your Favorites as a drop- >>>>>>> down at
the top or in a sidebar, or both.
OK, fair. I mostly have them at the top -- but also have a button >>>>>> I can push
to easily hide them. Useful for making videos for folks where they >>>>>> do not see
my (too many) Favorites.
Books, News, Music, Home and TV are all Apple paid services or
products.
Books - We have a Kindle subscription
News - I use several sources
Music - YouTube Music is included in my Premium subscription
Home - We use Google Home
TV - we have 4 Roku TV sets
Pretty much the same for me... I use Google News and other
sources. I use
Pandora and my own downloaded music. Did have a free trial of
Apple Music and
it was pretty good, but not with the money to me. I do use the app >>>>>> though.
Also use Roku.
And I cannot remove them from this Mac.
You can... but it is not recommended or obvious how. Means
reducing security
(disabling System Integrity Protection (SIP)) and more... and you >>>>>> do not get
back all the space you thought you would. These are built into the >>>>>> system...
not quite the same as the third party stuff you often get with
Windows.
factory. But that is likely an exception for Windows machines.
But I DO NOT understand how CHESS, Music or Books are baked into
Mac OS! But NOT iOS! So I hid them. Like I said above, it's a small >>>>> issue.
A small man making a big deal of a TINY issue, you mean.
It sucks that certain applications can't be removed, but it's still a
minimal problem compared to how much bloat most manufacturers leave
on Windows machines they sell. However, there is such bloat in just
about every desktop environment, including Linux ones. For example, I
can't remove Edge on Windows. Windows also sets up OneDrive despite
my lack of interest in it. On the Linux side, some iterations of KDE
pressure you to use the built-in password manager and on some
versions of the Ubuntu distribution, attempting to remove Firefox
breaks the metapackage for some reason. I'm sure it's been fixed by
now, but it was an issue for a while.
Either way, it's a rather common practice.
He doesn't even understand what he's reading.
There are 46 applications in the folder /System/Applications on macOS
Tahoe 26.4.1:
Weather.app; App Store.app; Apps.app; Automator.app; Books.app;
Calculator.app; Calendar.app; Chess.app; Clock.app; Contacts.app;
Dictionary.app; FaceTime.app; Find My.app; Font Book.app;
Freeform.app; Games.app; Home.app; Image Capture.app; Image
Playground.app; iPhone Mirroring.app; Journal.app; Mail.app; Maps.app;
Messages.app; Mission Control.app; Music.app; News.app; Notes.app;
Passwords.app; Phone.app; Photo Booth.app; Photos.app; Podcasts.app;
Preview.app; QuickTime Player.app; Reminders.app; Shortcuts.app;
Siri.app; Stickies.app; Stocks.app; System Settings.app; TextEdit.app;
Time Machine.app; Tips.app; TV.app; Voice Memos.app
All of them together use 623.3MB on disk.
Adding in the 18 additional applications in /System/Applications/
Utilities brings that number to 722.5MB...
...or 0.07% of a 1TB drive.
Now what Liarboy/Tommie-twit is reading is the larger number that is
also reported by the Finder's "Show Inspector" panel (which allows you
to "Get Info" on multiple items at once).
That number is 1,293,716,971 bytes; still a bagatelle, but it lets him
whine about his "gigabyte" of "bloat" (which even on a 256GB entry-
level machine is just 0.5%)...
...without him ever trying to understand (or maybe even NOTICE) that
hte actual space on disk is less...
...because macOS uses the APFS which lets multiple applications
actually share the same data/code stored on the disk.
I need to read more on this particular feature of APFS. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean here.
On 2026-04-24 15:29, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-04-24 4:54 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-04-24 12:28, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-04-24 2:25 p.m., Alan wrote:
On 2026-03-22 12:23, Tom Elam wrote:
On 3/21/26 5:30 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 21, 2026 at 7:52:24 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wroteThe Dell XPS the Mac is replacing had 0 3rd party slop from the
<10pmbbc$2hagk$[email protected]>:
On 3/20/26 5:14 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Mar 20, 2026 at 10:40:51 AM MST, "Tom Elam" wrote
<10pk0r6$1q1hb$[email protected]>:
Summing up a month. Transition to Mac OS has not been
seamless, but
Google is a big help. I got along fine in Windows, and just >>>>>>>>>> basically
had to learn a different dialect, not a whole new language. >>>>>>>>>>
Except for Quicken apps mostly did not change.
Quicken for Mac is VERY different. The interface and workflow >>>>>>>>>> are not at
all the same. However, I'm finding that the Mac version can do >>>>>>>>>> all the
same things if you just hunt around and spend time to learn. >>>>>>>>>> There are a
few workflow differences that are actually more efficient on Mac. >>>>>>>>>>
I transitioned to Safari this week, and glad I did. It is in a >>>>>>>>>> few ways
better organized than Chrome or Edge.
Do you have any specific examples?
Transition to the hardware has been an absolute joy. You can >>>>>>>>>> guess why.
Battery life, no fans, no heat, less weight, fluid screen >>>>>>>>>> refreshes, no
stuttering, instant response, visually more consistent
interface, worked
great with my existing software and hardware base. The only >>>>>>>>>> other thing
I had to buy was a SD card dongle.
But, one little complaint. After hearing for years about
Windows coming
with program bloat I find that Mac OS does too. I cannot
delete these
apps that I have zero use for mostly because I have substitutes: >>>>>>>>>>
Chess
Books
Calendar
Freeform
Home
Music
News
and
TV among a few others.
All together about 1 GB of clutter and disk space.
You cannot delete those, but they do not really do any harm >>>>>>>>> (other than space,
I guess). Still, it is not the same as the trial-ware and
adware and the like.
And some of those apps are to some extent front ends for system >>>>>>>>> services other
apps use -- Calendar for example. Oh, and to be fair, Apple is >>>>>>>>> including some
of its own adware these days. Apps pushing their bundles and >>>>>>>>> having ads (such
as News). Not a big deal, but not a trend I like.
One small Safari example - you can have your Favorites as a
drop- down at
the top or in a sidebar, or both.
OK, fair. I mostly have them at the top -- but also have a button >>>>>>> I can push
to easily hide them. Useful for making videos for folks where
they do not see
my (too many) Favorites.
Books, News, Music, Home and TV are all Apple paid services or >>>>>>>> products.
Books - We have a Kindle subscription
News - I use several sources
Music - YouTube Music is included in my Premium subscription
Home - We use Google Home
TV - we have 4 Roku TV sets
Pretty much the same for me... I use Google News and other
sources. I use
Pandora and my own downloaded music. Did have a free trial of
Apple Music and
it was pretty good, but not with the money to me. I do use the
app though.
Also use Roku.
And I cannot remove them from this Mac.
You can... but it is not recommended or obvious how. Means
reducing security
(disabling System Integrity Protection (SIP)) and more... and you >>>>>>> do not get
back all the space you thought you would. These are built into
the system...
not quite the same as the third party stuff you often get with
Windows.
factory. But that is likely an exception for Windows machines.
But I DO NOT understand how CHESS, Music or Books are baked into
Mac OS! But NOT iOS! So I hid them. Like I said above, it's a
small issue.
A small man making a big deal of a TINY issue, you mean.
It sucks that certain applications can't be removed, but it's still
a minimal problem compared to how much bloat most manufacturers
leave on Windows machines they sell. However, there is such bloat in
just about every desktop environment, including Linux ones. For
example, I can't remove Edge on Windows. Windows also sets up
OneDrive despite my lack of interest in it. On the Linux side, some
iterations of KDE pressure you to use the built-in password manager
and on some versions of the Ubuntu distribution, attempting to
remove Firefox breaks the metapackage for some reason. I'm sure it's
been fixed by now, but it was an issue for a while.
Either way, it's a rather common practice.
He doesn't even understand what he's reading.
There are 46 applications in the folder /System/Applications on macOS
Tahoe 26.4.1:
Weather.app; App Store.app; Apps.app; Automator.app; Books.app;
Calculator.app; Calendar.app; Chess.app; Clock.app; Contacts.app;
Dictionary.app; FaceTime.app; Find My.app; Font Book.app;
Freeform.app; Games.app; Home.app; Image Capture.app; Image
Playground.app; iPhone Mirroring.app; Journal.app; Mail.app;
Maps.app; Messages.app; Mission Control.app; Music.app; News.app;
Notes.app; Passwords.app; Phone.app; Photo Booth.app; Photos.app;
Podcasts.app; Preview.app; QuickTime Player.app; Reminders.app;
Shortcuts.app; Siri.app; Stickies.app; Stocks.app; System
Settings.app; TextEdit.app; Time Machine.app; Tips.app; TV.app; Voice
Memos.app
All of them together use 623.3MB on disk.
Adding in the 18 additional applications in /System/Applications/
Utilities brings that number to 722.5MB...
...or 0.07% of a 1TB drive.
Now what Liarboy/Tommie-twit is reading is the larger number that is
also reported by the Finder's "Show Inspector" panel (which allows
you to "Get Info" on multiple items at once).
That number is 1,293,716,971 bytes; still a bagatelle, but it lets
him whine about his "gigabyte" of "bloat" (which even on a 256GB
entry- level machine is just 0.5%)...
...without him ever trying to understand (or maybe even NOTICE) that
hte actual space on disk is less...
...because macOS uses the APFS which lets multiple applications
actually share the same data/code stored on the disk.
I need to read more on this particular feature of APFS. I'm not sure I
understand exactly what you mean here.
I'm not certain of all the details myself, but basically, many of the frameworks used by these applications Apple proves are shared among
them, with only a single copy of the actual data written to disk.
There's some good stuff I'm reading just now here:
<https://eclecticlight.co/2025/04/02/can-apfs-special-files-save- storage-space/>
<https://eclecticlight.co/2025/04/07/how-robust-are-apfs-clone-and- sparse-files/>
Here's an app written by John Siracusa:
<https://hypercritical.co/hyperspace/>
That can let you take advantage of APFS's ability to create "clones",
where APFS only stores the information once on disk, but creates two distinct inodes, and only starts to create unique information if one of
the two versions has new data written to it (and which I didn't know is
now what the Finder does if you duplicate a file).
| Sysop: | DaiTengu |
|---|---|
| Location: | Appleton, WI |
| Users: | 1,114 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 492507:09:26 |
| Calls: | 14,267 |
| Calls today: | 3 |
| Files: | 186,320 |
| D/L today: |
16,392 files (5,001M bytes) |
| Messages: | 2,518,271 |