• Is the average full support for Intel macs really 7.26 years?

    From Maria Sophia@[email protected] to comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Fri Apr 17 13:16:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy


    This was posted back in March to the iPhone newsgroup, but it should be
    vetted here on the mac newsgroup.

    Please correct where I err or omit, as this type of listing is almost
    unheard of on Apple newsgroups because it's not marketing. It's fact.

    --- verbatim copy ---

    Hi Tom,

    I actually appreciate you doing the math on lines 6 through 11, because
    you've reached the exact same number I did for that subset: 6.36 years.

    Thanks for sticking to the topic because people who hate Apple for what
    Apple is, are the ones who simply attack the messenger w/o addressing the message. And the message is that Apple's full iOS support is about 5 years
    on average, but if you look only at the latter half of the iPhones that are
    no longer in full support, as you asked me to do, indeed, that number
    stretches to just over 6 years.

    I agree with your math.
    Why would I not?

    Support" isn't a feeling; it's a binary state of being protected against
    all known threats. Either the release has all CVEs in it. Or not.

    Since I never disagree with a logically sensible statement, I'll agree that what you're saying is "if we ignore all the times Apple gave short support,
    the average support is longer", which, we agree, would be 6.36 years.

    I never disagree with a logically sensible statement or request, so I do
    agree with you we need the same set of numbers for macOS & for the iPads.

    So, as you requested, here's my FIRST PASS (which may be wrong!) at
    figuring out how long each now-no-longer-fully-supported macOS release was.

    Bear in mind, in the iOS case, we were looking at HARDWARE full support.
    As a first pass for macOS, this below only looks at SOFTWARE full support.

    1. MacBook (12", 2017)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-14 release: macOS 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
    2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.

    2. MacBook Pro (13", 2017, 4 TB3 Ports)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-14 release: macOS 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
    2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.

    3. iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-14 release: macOS 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
    2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.

    4. MacBook Air (Retina, 13", 2018)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 7, 2018.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: macOS 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,140 days / 365 = 5.86 years for full macOS support.

    5. MacBook Pro (15", 2018)
    Shipped for retail sale on July 12, 2018.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: macOS 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,258 days / 365 = 6.19 years for full macOS support.

    6. Mac mini (2018)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 7, 2018.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: macOS 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,140 days / 365 = 5.86 years for full macOS support.

    7. MacBook Pro (16", 2019)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 13, 2019.
    Last pre-macOS-26 release: macOS 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
    2,133 days / 365 = 5.84 years for full macOS support.

    8. iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2019)
    Shipped for retail sale on March 19, 2019.
    Last pre-macOS-26 release: macOS 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
    2,372 days / 365 = 6.50 years for full macOS support.

    Q: Tentatively, so what's the average for full macOS support?
    A: 0.89 years (but that's of the software, not the hardware).

    I am not familiar with the entire Apple desktop line.
    Here's a first pass at desktop support. Please fix where I err.

    These are Intel Mac desktops that have lost Full Support as of today.

    1. Mac mini (Early 2006)
    Shipped for retail sale on Feb 28, 2006.
    Last pre-OS-X-10.7 release: 10.6.8 on July 25, 2011.
    1,973 days / 365 = 5.41 years for full macOS support.

    2. iMac (24-inch, Late 2006)
    Shipped for retail sale on Sept 6, 2006.
    Last pre-OS-X-10.8 release: 10.7.5 on Oct 4, 2012.
    2,219 days / 365 = 6.08 years for full macOS support.

    3. iMac (20-inch, Mid 2007)
    Shipped for retail sale on Aug 7, 2007.
    Last pre-macOS-10.12 release: 10.11.6 on July 18, 2016.
    3,268 days / 365 = 8.95 years for full macOS support.

    4. iMac (24-inch, Early 2008)
    Shipped for retail sale on April 28, 2008.
    Last pre-macOS-10.12 release: 10.11.6 on July 18, 2016.
    3,003 days / 365 = 8.23 years for full macOS support.

    5. Mac mini (Early 2009)
    Shipped for retail sale on March 3, 2009.
    Last pre-macOS-10.12 release: 10.11.6 on July 18, 2016.
    2,694 days / 365 = 7.38 years for full macOS support.

    6. iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2009)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 20, 2009.
    Last pre-macOS-10.13 release: 10.12.6 on July 19, 2017.
    2,829 days / 365 = 7.75 years for full macOS support.

    7. Mac mini (Mid 2010)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 15, 2010.
    Last pre-macOS-10.14 release: 10.13.6 on July 9, 2018.
    2,946 days / 365 = 8.07 years for full macOS support.

    8. iMac (27-inch, Mid 2011)
    Shipped for retail sale on May 3, 2011.
    Last pre-macOS-10.14 release: 10.13.6 on July 9, 2018.
    2,624 days / 365 = 7.19 years for full macOS support.

    9. iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2012)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 30, 2012.
    Last pre-macOS-11 release: 10.15.7 on Sept 24, 2020.
    2,855 days / 365 = 7.82 years for full macOS support.

    10. Mac mini (Late 2012)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 23, 2012.
    Last pre-macOS-11 release: 10.15.7 on Sept 24, 2020.
    2,893 days / 365 = 7.93 years for full macOS support.

    11. iMac (27-inch, Late 2013)
    Shipped for retail sale on Sept 24, 2013.
    Last pre-macOS-12 release: 11.6 on Sept 13, 2021.
    2,911 days / 365 = 7.98 years for full macOS support.

    12. Mac Pro (Late 2013 "Trash Can")
    Shipped for retail sale on Dec 19, 2013.
    Last pre-macOS-13 release: 12.6 on Sept 12, 2022.
    3,189 days / 365 = 8.74 years for full macOS support.

    13. iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 16, 2014.
    Last pre-macOS-12 release: 11.6 on Sept 13, 2021.
    2,524 days / 365 = 6.92 years for full macOS support.

    14. Mac mini (Late 2014)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 16, 2014.
    Last pre-macOS-13 release: 12.6 on Sept 12, 2022.
    2,888 days / 365 = 7.91 years for full macOS support.

    15. iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 13, 2015.
    Last pre-macOS-13 release: 12.6 on Sept 12, 2022.
    2,526 days / 365 = 6.92 years for full macOS support.

    16. iMac (21.5-inch, 2017)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-14 release: 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
    2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.

    17. iMac Pro (2017)
    Shipped for retail sale on Dec 14, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,468 days / 365 = 6.76 years for full macOS support.

    18. Mac mini (2018)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 7, 2018.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,140 days / 365 = 5.86 years for full macOS support.

    19. iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019)
    Shipped for retail sale on March 19, 2019.
    Last pre-macOS-16 release: 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
    2,372 days / 365 = 6.50 years for full macOS support.

    20. Mac Pro (2019 "Cheese Grater")
    Shipped for retail sale on Dec 10, 2019.
    Last pre-macOS-16 release: 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
    2,106 days / 365 = 5.77 years for full macOS support.

    Using that method of overall history, the average full support for these
    Intel Mac desktops is 7.26 years.

    The best era seems to be 2007-2013 which is between 8 & 9 years.
    The current era 2017-2019 seems to average only about 6.24 years.

    Since this is my first pass ever at calculating the full-support period for Intel Mac desktops, please take a look at the numbers & correct if need be.
    --
    People can easily discuss facts if they understand the basic concepts.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@[email protected] to comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Fri Apr 17 20:52:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On 2026-04-17 3:16 p.m., Maria Sophia wrote:

    This was posted back in March to the iPhone newsgroup, but it should be vetted here on the mac newsgroup.

    Please correct where I err or omit, as this type of listing is almost
    unheard of on Apple newsgroups because it's not marketing. It's fact.

    --- verbatim copy ---

    Hi Tom,

    I actually appreciate you doing the math on lines 6 through 11, because you've reached the exact same number I did for that subset: 6.36 years.

    Thanks for sticking to the topic because people who hate Apple for what
    Apple is, are the ones who simply attack the messenger w/o addressing the message. And the message is that Apple's full iOS support is about 5 years
    on average, but if you look only at the latter half of the iPhones that are no longer in full support, as you asked me to do, indeed, that number stretches to just over 6 years.

    I agree with your math.
    Why would I not?

    Support" isn't a feeling; it's a binary state of being protected against
    all known threats. Either the release has all CVEs in it. Or not.

    Since I never disagree with a logically sensible statement, I'll agree that what you're saying is "if we ignore all the times Apple gave short support, the average support is longer", which, we agree, would be 6.36 years.

    I never disagree with a logically sensible statement or request, so I do agree with you we need the same set of numbers for macOS & for the iPads.

    So, as you requested, here's my FIRST PASS (which may be wrong!) at
    figuring out how long each now-no-longer-fully-supported macOS release was.

    Bear in mind, in the iOS case, we were looking at HARDWARE full support.
    As a first pass for macOS, this below only looks at SOFTWARE full support.

    1. MacBook (12", 2017)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-14 release: macOS 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
    2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.

    2. MacBook Pro (13", 2017, 4 TB3 Ports)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-14 release: macOS 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
    2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.

    3. iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-14 release: macOS 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
    2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.

    4. MacBook Air (Retina, 13", 2018)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 7, 2018.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: macOS 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,140 days / 365 = 5.86 years for full macOS support.

    5. MacBook Pro (15", 2018)
    Shipped for retail sale on July 12, 2018.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: macOS 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,258 days / 365 = 6.19 years for full macOS support.

    6. Mac mini (2018)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 7, 2018.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: macOS 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,140 days / 365 = 5.86 years for full macOS support.

    7. MacBook Pro (16", 2019)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 13, 2019.
    Last pre-macOS-26 release: macOS 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
    2,133 days / 365 = 5.84 years for full macOS support.

    8. iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2019)
    Shipped for retail sale on March 19, 2019.
    Last pre-macOS-26 release: macOS 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
    2,372 days / 365 = 6.50 years for full macOS support.

    Q: Tentatively, so what's the average for full macOS support?
    A: 0.89 years (but that's of the software, not the hardware).

    I am not familiar with the entire Apple desktop line.
    Here's a first pass at desktop support. Please fix where I err.

    These are Intel Mac desktops that have lost Full Support as of today.

    1. Mac mini (Early 2006)
    Shipped for retail sale on Feb 28, 2006.
    Last pre-OS-X-10.7 release: 10.6.8 on July 25, 2011.
    1,973 days / 365 = 5.41 years for full macOS support.

    2. iMac (24-inch, Late 2006)
    Shipped for retail sale on Sept 6, 2006.
    Last pre-OS-X-10.8 release: 10.7.5 on Oct 4, 2012.
    2,219 days / 365 = 6.08 years for full macOS support.

    3. iMac (20-inch, Mid 2007)
    Shipped for retail sale on Aug 7, 2007.
    Last pre-macOS-10.12 release: 10.11.6 on July 18, 2016.
    3,268 days / 365 = 8.95 years for full macOS support.

    4. iMac (24-inch, Early 2008)
    Shipped for retail sale on April 28, 2008.
    Last pre-macOS-10.12 release: 10.11.6 on July 18, 2016.
    3,003 days / 365 = 8.23 years for full macOS support.

    5. Mac mini (Early 2009)
    Shipped for retail sale on March 3, 2009.
    Last pre-macOS-10.12 release: 10.11.6 on July 18, 2016.
    2,694 days / 365 = 7.38 years for full macOS support.

    6. iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2009)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 20, 2009.
    Last pre-macOS-10.13 release: 10.12.6 on July 19, 2017.
    2,829 days / 365 = 7.75 years for full macOS support.

    7. Mac mini (Mid 2010)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 15, 2010.
    Last pre-macOS-10.14 release: 10.13.6 on July 9, 2018.
    2,946 days / 365 = 8.07 years for full macOS support.

    8. iMac (27-inch, Mid 2011)
    Shipped for retail sale on May 3, 2011.
    Last pre-macOS-10.14 release: 10.13.6 on July 9, 2018.
    2,624 days / 365 = 7.19 years for full macOS support.

    9. iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2012)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 30, 2012.
    Last pre-macOS-11 release: 10.15.7 on Sept 24, 2020.
    2,855 days / 365 = 7.82 years for full macOS support.

    10. Mac mini (Late 2012)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 23, 2012.
    Last pre-macOS-11 release: 10.15.7 on Sept 24, 2020.
    2,893 days / 365 = 7.93 years for full macOS support.

    11. iMac (27-inch, Late 2013)
    Shipped for retail sale on Sept 24, 2013.
    Last pre-macOS-12 release: 11.6 on Sept 13, 2021.
    2,911 days / 365 = 7.98 years for full macOS support.

    12. Mac Pro (Late 2013 "Trash Can")
    Shipped for retail sale on Dec 19, 2013.
    Last pre-macOS-13 release: 12.6 on Sept 12, 2022.
    3,189 days / 365 = 8.74 years for full macOS support.

    13. iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 16, 2014.
    Last pre-macOS-12 release: 11.6 on Sept 13, 2021.
    2,524 days / 365 = 6.92 years for full macOS support.

    14. Mac mini (Late 2014)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 16, 2014.
    Last pre-macOS-13 release: 12.6 on Sept 12, 2022.
    2,888 days / 365 = 7.91 years for full macOS support.

    15. iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015)
    Shipped for retail sale on Oct 13, 2015.
    Last pre-macOS-13 release: 12.6 on Sept 12, 2022.
    2,526 days / 365 = 6.92 years for full macOS support.

    16. iMac (21.5-inch, 2017)
    Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-14 release: 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
    2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.

    17. iMac Pro (2017)
    Shipped for retail sale on Dec 14, 2017.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,468 days / 365 = 6.76 years for full macOS support.

    18. Mac mini (2018)
    Shipped for retail sale on Nov 7, 2018.
    Last pre-macOS-15 release: 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
    2,140 days / 365 = 5.86 years for full macOS support.

    19. iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019)
    Shipped for retail sale on March 19, 2019.
    Last pre-macOS-16 release: 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
    2,372 days / 365 = 6.50 years for full macOS support.

    20. Mac Pro (2019 "Cheese Grater")
    Shipped for retail sale on Dec 10, 2019.
    Last pre-macOS-16 release: 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
    2,106 days / 365 = 5.77 years for full macOS support.

    Using that method of overall history, the average full support for these Intel Mac desktops is 7.26 years.

    The best era seems to be 2007-2013 which is between 8 & 9 years.
    The current era 2017-2019 seems to average only about 6.24 years.

    Since this is my first pass ever at calculating the full-support period for Intel Mac desktops, please take a look at the numbers & correct if need be.

    Your calculations seem fair. I suppose that if you want to hold onto
    your hardware for longer than 5-6 years, you can always turn to Windows
    and know that Microsoft will likely still support it a decade later.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    M4 MacBook Air
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Your Name@[email protected] to comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Sat Apr 18 15:07:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On 2026-04-18 00:52:02 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
    On 2026-04-17 3:16 p.m., Maria Sophia wrote:

    <snip the usual anti-Apple know-nothing bollocks by the local village idiot>

    Your calculations seem fair. I suppose that if you want to hold onto
    your hardware for longer than 5-6 years, you can always turn to Windows
    and know that Microsoft will likely still support it a decade later.

    "Support" is largely irrelevant. AS long as the cmoputer does what oyu
    need it to, it's still useful.

    My previous computer was a PowerMac G3 that I bought brand new in 1998,
    used daily for just over 20 years until it failed with a hardware fault.

    I then got this 2014 model Intel Mac Mini brand new in 2018 that I use
    now ... yes, Apple sold this model for four years, and the MacOS
    updates ended in 2024 with MacOS 12.7.6, so that's 10 years of MacOS
    updates (although mine is still using MacOS 10.13.6).

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@[email protected] to comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Sat Apr 18 07:13:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On 2026-04-17 11:07 p.m., Your Name wrote:
    On 2026-04-18 00:52:02 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
    On 2026-04-17 3:16 p.m., Maria Sophia wrote:

    <snip the usual anti-Apple know-nothing bollocks by the local village
    idiot>

    Your calculations seem fair. I suppose that if you want to hold onto
    your hardware for longer than 5-6 years, you can always turn to
    Windows and know that Microsoft will likely still support it a decade
    later.

    "Support" is largely irrelevant. AS long as the cmoputer does what oyu
    need it to, it's still useful.

    Agreed, but manufacturers have conditioned us to believe that we need to
    have access to security updates. I've got a 2013 MacBook Air which is
    still very useful if anyone needs it to be. After all, it still plays
    videos, allows you to read e-mail and load websites. It is, however,
    rather slow.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    M4 MacBook Air
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tom Elam@[email protected] to comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Sat Apr 18 15:34:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On 4/17/26 3:16 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Bear in mind, in the iOS case, we were looking at HARDWARE full support.
    As a first pass for macOS, this below only looks at SOFTWARE full support.

    Full support or not, MacBooks remain somewhat useable for far more than
    7 years. The real issue is not Apple support, it's limited specs on
    older computers. a few examples:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KounEFAc3NI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyqv0LJnVOY

    There are even workarounds for updating the OS far past the last update
    Apple provided - just like Windows.

    My officially unsupported 2017 HP Envy runs Windows 11 25H2 just fine,
    but its slow hard drive makes means monthly updates are painfully slow.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Alan@[email protected] to comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Sat Apr 18 13:01:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On 2026-04-17 12:16, Maria Sophia wrote:

    This was posted back in March to the iPhone newsgroup, but it should be vetted here on the mac newsgroup.

    Please correct where I err or omit, as this type of listing is almost
    unheard of on Apple newsgroups because it's not marketing. It's fact.

    --- verbatim copy ---

    Hi Tom,

    I actually appreciate you doing the math on lines 6 through 11, because you've reached the exact same number I did for that subset: 6.36 years.

    Thanks for sticking to the topic because people who hate Apple for what
    Apple is, are the ones who simply attack the messenger w/o addressing the message. And the message is that Apple's full iOS support is about 5 years
    on average, but if you look only at the latter half of the iPhones that are no longer in full support, as you asked me to do, indeed, that number stretches to just over 6 years.

    I agree with your math.
    Why would I not?

    Support" isn't a feeling; it's a binary state of being protected against
    all known threats. Either the release has all CVEs in it. Or not.

    Since I never disagree with a logically sensible statement, I'll agree that what you're saying is "if we ignore all the times Apple gave short support, the average support is longer", which, we agree, would be 6.36 years.

    I never disagree with a logically sensible statement or request, so I do agree with you we need the same set of numbers for macOS & for the iPads.

    So, as you requested, here's my FIRST PASS (which may be wrong!) at
    figuring out how long each now-no-longer-fully-supported macOS release was.

    Bear in mind, in the iOS case, we were looking at HARDWARE full support.
    As a first pass for macOS, this below only looks at SOFTWARE full support.

    I love the way you obfuscate.

    As far as I can see, all your discussions about iOS have been about
    software updates, so where does ""HARDWARE full support" come into it?
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2