This was posted back in March to the iPhone newsgroup, but it should be vetted here on the mac newsgroup.
Please correct where I err or omit, as this type of listing is almost
unheard of on Apple newsgroups because it's not marketing. It's fact.
--- verbatim copy ---
Hi Tom,
I actually appreciate you doing the math on lines 6 through 11, because you've reached the exact same number I did for that subset: 6.36 years.
Thanks for sticking to the topic because people who hate Apple for what
Apple is, are the ones who simply attack the messenger w/o addressing the message. And the message is that Apple's full iOS support is about 5 years
on average, but if you look only at the latter half of the iPhones that are no longer in full support, as you asked me to do, indeed, that number stretches to just over 6 years.
I agree with your math.
Why would I not?
Support" isn't a feeling; it's a binary state of being protected against
all known threats. Either the release has all CVEs in it. Or not.
Since I never disagree with a logically sensible statement, I'll agree that what you're saying is "if we ignore all the times Apple gave short support, the average support is longer", which, we agree, would be 6.36 years.
I never disagree with a logically sensible statement or request, so I do agree with you we need the same set of numbers for macOS & for the iPads.
So, as you requested, here's my FIRST PASS (which may be wrong!) at
figuring out how long each now-no-longer-fully-supported macOS release was.
Bear in mind, in the iOS case, we were looking at HARDWARE full support.
As a first pass for macOS, this below only looks at SOFTWARE full support.
1. MacBook (12", 2017)
Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
Last pre-macOS-14 release: macOS 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.
2. MacBook Pro (13", 2017, 4 TB3 Ports)
Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
Last pre-macOS-14 release: macOS 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.
3. iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017)
Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
Last pre-macOS-14 release: macOS 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.
4. MacBook Air (Retina, 13", 2018)
Shipped for retail sale on Nov 7, 2018.
Last pre-macOS-15 release: macOS 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
2,140 days / 365 = 5.86 years for full macOS support.
5. MacBook Pro (15", 2018)
Shipped for retail sale on July 12, 2018.
Last pre-macOS-15 release: macOS 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
2,258 days / 365 = 6.19 years for full macOS support.
6. Mac mini (2018)
Shipped for retail sale on Nov 7, 2018.
Last pre-macOS-15 release: macOS 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
2,140 days / 365 = 5.86 years for full macOS support.
7. MacBook Pro (16", 2019)
Shipped for retail sale on Nov 13, 2019.
Last pre-macOS-26 release: macOS 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
2,133 days / 365 = 5.84 years for full macOS support.
8. iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2019)
Shipped for retail sale on March 19, 2019.
Last pre-macOS-26 release: macOS 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
2,372 days / 365 = 6.50 years for full macOS support.
Q: Tentatively, so what's the average for full macOS support?
A: 0.89 years (but that's of the software, not the hardware).
I am not familiar with the entire Apple desktop line.
Here's a first pass at desktop support. Please fix where I err.
These are Intel Mac desktops that have lost Full Support as of today.
1. Mac mini (Early 2006)
Shipped for retail sale on Feb 28, 2006.
Last pre-OS-X-10.7 release: 10.6.8 on July 25, 2011.
1,973 days / 365 = 5.41 years for full macOS support.
2. iMac (24-inch, Late 2006)
Shipped for retail sale on Sept 6, 2006.
Last pre-OS-X-10.8 release: 10.7.5 on Oct 4, 2012.
2,219 days / 365 = 6.08 years for full macOS support.
3. iMac (20-inch, Mid 2007)
Shipped for retail sale on Aug 7, 2007.
Last pre-macOS-10.12 release: 10.11.6 on July 18, 2016.
3,268 days / 365 = 8.95 years for full macOS support.
4. iMac (24-inch, Early 2008)
Shipped for retail sale on April 28, 2008.
Last pre-macOS-10.12 release: 10.11.6 on July 18, 2016.
3,003 days / 365 = 8.23 years for full macOS support.
5. Mac mini (Early 2009)
Shipped for retail sale on March 3, 2009.
Last pre-macOS-10.12 release: 10.11.6 on July 18, 2016.
2,694 days / 365 = 7.38 years for full macOS support.
6. iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2009)
Shipped for retail sale on Oct 20, 2009.
Last pre-macOS-10.13 release: 10.12.6 on July 19, 2017.
2,829 days / 365 = 7.75 years for full macOS support.
7. Mac mini (Mid 2010)
Shipped for retail sale on June 15, 2010.
Last pre-macOS-10.14 release: 10.13.6 on July 9, 2018.
2,946 days / 365 = 8.07 years for full macOS support.
8. iMac (27-inch, Mid 2011)
Shipped for retail sale on May 3, 2011.
Last pre-macOS-10.14 release: 10.13.6 on July 9, 2018.
2,624 days / 365 = 7.19 years for full macOS support.
9. iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2012)
Shipped for retail sale on Nov 30, 2012.
Last pre-macOS-11 release: 10.15.7 on Sept 24, 2020.
2,855 days / 365 = 7.82 years for full macOS support.
10. Mac mini (Late 2012)
Shipped for retail sale on Oct 23, 2012.
Last pre-macOS-11 release: 10.15.7 on Sept 24, 2020.
2,893 days / 365 = 7.93 years for full macOS support.
11. iMac (27-inch, Late 2013)
Shipped for retail sale on Sept 24, 2013.
Last pre-macOS-12 release: 11.6 on Sept 13, 2021.
2,911 days / 365 = 7.98 years for full macOS support.
12. Mac Pro (Late 2013 "Trash Can")
Shipped for retail sale on Dec 19, 2013.
Last pre-macOS-13 release: 12.6 on Sept 12, 2022.
3,189 days / 365 = 8.74 years for full macOS support.
13. iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014)
Shipped for retail sale on Oct 16, 2014.
Last pre-macOS-12 release: 11.6 on Sept 13, 2021.
2,524 days / 365 = 6.92 years for full macOS support.
14. Mac mini (Late 2014)
Shipped for retail sale on Oct 16, 2014.
Last pre-macOS-13 release: 12.6 on Sept 12, 2022.
2,888 days / 365 = 7.91 years for full macOS support.
15. iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015)
Shipped for retail sale on Oct 13, 2015.
Last pre-macOS-13 release: 12.6 on Sept 12, 2022.
2,526 days / 365 = 6.92 years for full macOS support.
16. iMac (21.5-inch, 2017)
Shipped for retail sale on June 5, 2017.
Last pre-macOS-14 release: 13.6 on Sept 21, 2023.
2,300 days / 365 = 6.30 years for full macOS support.
17. iMac Pro (2017)
Shipped for retail sale on Dec 14, 2017.
Last pre-macOS-15 release: 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
2,468 days / 365 = 6.76 years for full macOS support.
18. Mac mini (2018)
Shipped for retail sale on Nov 7, 2018.
Last pre-macOS-15 release: 14.7 on Sept 16, 2024.
2,140 days / 365 = 5.86 years for full macOS support.
19. iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019)
Shipped for retail sale on March 19, 2019.
Last pre-macOS-16 release: 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
2,372 days / 365 = 6.50 years for full macOS support.
20. Mac Pro (2019 "Cheese Grater")
Shipped for retail sale on Dec 10, 2019.
Last pre-macOS-16 release: 15.7 on Sept 15, 2025.
2,106 days / 365 = 5.77 years for full macOS support.
Using that method of overall history, the average full support for these Intel Mac desktops is 7.26 years.
The best era seems to be 2007-2013 which is between 8 & 9 years.
The current era 2017-2019 seems to average only about 6.24 years.
Since this is my first pass ever at calculating the full-support period for Intel Mac desktops, please take a look at the numbers & correct if need be.
On 2026-04-17 3:16 p.m., Maria Sophia wrote:<snip the usual anti-Apple know-nothing bollocks by the local village idiot>
Your calculations seem fair. I suppose that if you want to hold onto
your hardware for longer than 5-6 years, you can always turn to Windows
and know that Microsoft will likely still support it a decade later.
On 2026-04-18 00:52:02 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
On 2026-04-17 3:16 p.m., Maria Sophia wrote:<snip the usual anti-Apple know-nothing bollocks by the local village
idiot>
Your calculations seem fair. I suppose that if you want to hold onto
your hardware for longer than 5-6 years, you can always turn to
Windows and know that Microsoft will likely still support it a decade
later.
"Support" is largely irrelevant. AS long as the cmoputer does what oyu
need it to, it's still useful.
On 2026-04-17 11:07 p.m., Your Name wrote:
On 2026-04-18 00:52:02 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
On 2026-04-17 3:16 p.m., Maria Sophia wrote:<snip the usual anti-Apple know-nothing bollocks by the local village idiot> >>>
Your calculations seem fair. I suppose that if you want to hold onto
your hardware for longer than 5-6 years, you can always turn to Windows >>> and know that Microsoft will likely still support it a decade later.
"Support" is largely irrelevant. AS long as the cmoputer does what oyu
need it to, it's still useful.
Agreed, but manufacturers have conditioned us to believe that we need
to have access to security updates. I've got a 2013 MacBook Air which
is still very useful if anyone needs it to be. After all, it still
plays videos, allows you to read e-mail and load websites. It is,
however, rather slow.
Bear in mind, in the iOS case, we were looking at HARDWARE full support.
As a first pass for macOS, this below only looks at SOFTWARE full support.
This was posted back in March to the iPhone newsgroup, but it should be vetted here on the mac newsgroup.
Please correct where I err or omit, as this type of listing is almost
unheard of on Apple newsgroups because it's not marketing. It's fact.
--- verbatim copy ---
Hi Tom,
I actually appreciate you doing the math on lines 6 through 11, because you've reached the exact same number I did for that subset: 6.36 years.
Thanks for sticking to the topic because people who hate Apple for what
Apple is, are the ones who simply attack the messenger w/o addressing the message. And the message is that Apple's full iOS support is about 5 years
on average, but if you look only at the latter half of the iPhones that are no longer in full support, as you asked me to do, indeed, that number stretches to just over 6 years.
I agree with your math.
Why would I not?
Support" isn't a feeling; it's a binary state of being protected against
all known threats. Either the release has all CVEs in it. Or not.
Since I never disagree with a logically sensible statement, I'll agree that what you're saying is "if we ignore all the times Apple gave short support, the average support is longer", which, we agree, would be 6.36 years.
I never disagree with a logically sensible statement or request, so I do agree with you we need the same set of numbers for macOS & for the iPads.
So, as you requested, here's my FIRST PASS (which may be wrong!) at
figuring out how long each now-no-longer-fully-supported macOS release was.
Bear in mind, in the iOS case, we were looking at HARDWARE full support.
As a first pass for macOS, this below only looks at SOFTWARE full support.
On 2026-04-18 11:13:35 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
On 2026-04-17 11:07 p.m., Your Name wrote:
On 2026-04-18 00:52:02 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
On 2026-04-17 3:16 p.m., Maria Sophia wrote:<snip the usual anti-Apple know-nothing bollocks by the local village idiot>
Your calculations seem fair. I suppose that if you want to hold onto
your hardware for longer than 5-6 years, you can always turn to Windows >>>> and know that Microsoft will likely still support it a decade later.
"Support" is largely irrelevant. AS long as the cmoputer does what oyu
need it to, it's still useful.
Agreed, but manufacturers have conditioned us to believe that we need
to have access to security updates. I've got a 2013 MacBook Air which
is still very useful if anyone needs it to be. After all, it still
plays videos, allows you to read e-mail and load websites. It is,
however, rather slow.
I'm on a mid-2014 iMac, Mozilla is still releasing updates for Firefox
and I d/l every one but a few months ago I got into back and forth with
my local bank branch about their "BillPay" feature refusing to allow me
in (reportedly they use some third party for that). Someone on the web suggested Chromium would work (even though it's from 2023), and that's
what I use for online banking now.
On 2026-04-18 17:43:58 +0000, super70s said:
On 2026-04-18 11:13:35 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
On 2026-04-17 11:07 p.m., Your Name wrote:
On 2026-04-18 00:52:02 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
On 2026-04-17 3:16 p.m., Maria Sophia wrote:<snip the usual anti-Apple know-nothing bollocks by the local village idiot>
Your calculations seem fair. I suppose that if you want to hold onto >>>>> your hardware for longer than 5-6 years, you can always turn to Windows >>>>> and know that Microsoft will likely still support it a decade later.
"Support" is largely irrelevant. AS long as the cmoputer does what oyu >>>> need it to, it's still useful.
Agreed, but manufacturers have conditioned us to believe that we need
to have access to security updates. I've got a 2013 MacBook Air which
is still very useful if anyone needs it to be. After all, it still
plays videos, allows you to read e-mail and load websites. It is,
however, rather slow.
I'm on a mid-2014 iMac, Mozilla is still releasing updates for Firefox
and I d/l every one but a few months ago I got into back and forth with
my local bank branch about their "BillPay" feature refusing to allow me
in (reportedly they use some third party for that). Someone on the web
suggested Chromium would work (even though it's from 2023), and that's
what I use for online banking now.
I still use old Safari for most websites and newer Firefox for a few
that Safari no longer likes. Very very occasionally I come across a
badly made website that doesn't like either and only works with old
Chrome. I don't use internet banking.
Often such issues are due to lazy IT people in big business, banking,
and government who think everyone uses Windoze, and they don't even
bother to check that their garbage systems work on Macs. Usually if you actually report the problem, they couldn't care less and do nothing
about it.
On 2026-04-18 23:30:08 +0000, Your Name said:
On 2026-04-18 17:43:58 +0000, super70s said:
On 2026-04-18 11:13:35 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
On 2026-04-17 11:07 p.m., Your Name wrote:
On 2026-04-18 00:52:02 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
On 2026-04-17 3:16 p.m., Maria Sophia wrote:<snip the usual anti-Apple know-nothing bollocks by the local village idiot>
"Support" is largely irrelevant. AS long as the cmoputer does what oyu >>>>> need it to, it's still useful.
Your calculations seem fair. I suppose that if you want to hold onto >>>>>> your hardware for longer than 5-6 years, you can always turn to Windows >>>>>> and know that Microsoft will likely still support it a decade later. >>>>>
Agreed, but manufacturers have conditioned us to believe that we need >>>> to have access to security updates. I've got a 2013 MacBook Air which >>>> is still very useful if anyone needs it to be. After all, it still
plays videos, allows you to read e-mail and load websites. It is,
however, rather slow.
I'm on a mid-2014 iMac, Mozilla is still releasing updates for Firefox
and I d/l every one but a few months ago I got into back and forth with >>> my local bank branch about their "BillPay" feature refusing to allow me >>> in (reportedly they use some third party for that). Someone on the web
suggested Chromium would work (even though it's from 2023), and that's
what I use for online banking now.
I still use old Safari for most websites and newer Firefox for a few
that Safari no longer likes. Very very occasionally I come across a
badly made website that doesn't like either and only works with old
Chrome. I don't use internet banking.
I use Firefox most of the time and the latest version I'm able to run
is 115.34.1, like I said it still gets regular security updates (but
for how long who knows).
Regular Chrome abandoned the updates for the last version my system can
run a few years ago but Chromium appears to be a good alternative for stubborn sites. Like Firefox, neither Chrome nor Safari would work on
the new tweaked BillPay feature either.
I don't think I could survive without online banking with the several
credit cards I juggle.
Often such issues are due to lazy IT people in big business, banking,
and government who think everyone uses Windoze, and they don't even
bother to check that their garbage systems work on Macs. Usually if you
actually report the problem, they couldn't care less and do nothing
about it.
You're right, the girl at the bank branch was pretty good with working
with me but it was me who solved the problem in the end. I don't they'd
ever heard of Chromium, or any of the people in their IT dept. at the headquarters she corresponded with.
| Sysop: | DaiTengu |
|---|---|
| Location: | Appleton, WI |
| Users: | 1,114 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 492515:25:11 |
| Calls: | 14,267 |
| Calls today: | 3 |
| Files: | 186,321 |
| D/L today: |
27,408 files (8,923M bytes) |
| Messages: | 2,518,506 |