• Re: I am only referring the this C code right D simulated by H

    From Richard Damon@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 14:10:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/25 2:51 PM, olcott wrote:
    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    Any attempt to diverge from this will be called
    out as the strawman deception.

    int D()
    {
      int Halt_Status = H(D);
      if (Halt_Status)
        HERE: goto HERE;
      return Halt_Status;
    }

    Here are the precise words of my claim that I spent
    several months perfecting on the basis of feedback.
    I mean these words 100% exactly and precisely as
    stated.

    D simulated by H according to the semantics of C
    programming language (until H sees the repeating
    pattern) does enable H to report that its simulated
    input cannot possibly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement final halt state.
    *H is a correct termination analyzer for D*

    For the last three years every single review of my
    work by dozens and dozens of people always replaced
    the words that I actually said with different words
    and formed their rebuttal on that basis.


    But, since you CAN'T simulate the code, as it calls an undefined routine
    by your model.

    part of your problem is you just ignore the defintions of the system, so
    you ask stupid and self-contradictory questions based on the assumptiom
    of lies.

    D simulated by H according to the semantic of C programming language is
    just a non-sense statement, as the semantic of the C language go
    undefined at the call to the undefined (to C) function H.

    You need to decide, is the code of H part of the problem, at which
    point, you logic breaks as you can't talk about that code doing anything
    other than what it does, or

    the code of H is not part of the problem, at which point you condition
    is just incomplete and non-sense.
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  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 17:24:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about
    computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for
    comp.theory.


    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
    abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
    "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr Flibble@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 23:28:53 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2025 17:24:54 -0600, olcott wrote:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace of D simulated by H
    performing this trace in C as specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about
    computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for
    comp.theory.


    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer: (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
    abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
    "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing
    P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return
    statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that
    literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    It doesn't matter what result H(D) produces as D will do the opposite thus
    H is wrong.

    /Flibble
    --
    meet ever shorter deadlines, known as "beat the clock"
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  • From Mikko@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 12:08:18 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about
    computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for
    comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
    abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
    "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content
    is on topic of the group.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 06:33:55 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about
    computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for
    comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content
    is on topic of the group.


    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@[email protected] to comp.theory on Wed Nov 5 12:55:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-11-04 12:33:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about
    computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for
    comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content
    is on topic of the group.

    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.

    Kaz is off-topic for comp.theory.
    --
    Mikko

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  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Wed Nov 5 05:40:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/5/2025 4:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-04 12:33:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about
    computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for
    comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content
    is on topic of the group.

    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.

    Kaz is off-topic for comp.theory.


    He is on topic here: news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@[email protected] to comp.theory on Thu Nov 6 10:50:18 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-11-05 11:40:50 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/5/2025 4:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-04 12:33:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about
    computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for
    comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content
    is on topic of the group.

    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.

    Kaz is off-topic for comp.theory.

    He is on topic here: news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    The subject line is still about the author. The message says nothing
    about topics of comp.theory.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Thu Nov 6 05:11:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/6/2025 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-05 11:40:50 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/5/2025 4:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-04 12:33:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about >>>>>>> computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for
    comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content
    is on topic of the group.

    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.

    Kaz is off-topic for comp.theory.

    He is on topic here:
    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    The subject line is still about the author. The message says nothing
    about topics of comp.theory.


    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*

    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    On 11/3/2025 10:28 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:

    How about this minimal viable H:

    #include <interpret.h> // C interpreter's own API

    bool H(fptr P)
    {
    interp *s = interp_init(P);

    for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
    if (interp_step(s))
    return true;
    }

    return false;
    }

    H initializes an interpreter for its argument P.
    Then it applies a very simple abort logic: it
    steps the interpreter state three times. If
    during those three steps, P terminates, it returns
    true. Otherwise it assumes P is nonterminating and
    returns false.

    (Pretend that more complicated abort criteria are there.)

    The interpreter API consists of primitives built
    into the system, so it isn't traced.

    So then we have D:

    void D(void)
    {
    if (H(D)) { for (;;); }
    return;
    }

    Let's trace H(D). We indicate the simulation levels from 0,
    step numbers from 1 within each level, with a bit of indentation
    to tell apart the levels:


    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Thu Nov 6 08:06:48 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/6/2025 6:11 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-05 11:40:50 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/5/2025 4:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-04 12:33:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about >>>>>>>> computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for >>>>>>>> comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content >>>>>> is on topic of the group.

    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.

    Kaz is off-topic for comp.theory.

    He is on topic here:
    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    The subject line is still about the author. The message says nothing
    about topics of comp.theory.


    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*

    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]


    Then given the below algorithm foo:

    void foo()
    {
    int x=0;

    x++;
    x++;
    x++;
    x++;
    }

    And given the below algorithm H such that H(foo) returns 0, this is
    correct because algorithm foo simulated by algorithm H cannot possibly
    reach its own simulated return no matter what algorithm H does.

    Agreed?

    On 11/3/2025 10:28 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:

    How about this minimal viable H:

        #include <interpret.h>  // C interpreter's own API

        bool H(fptr P)
        {
           interp *s = interp_init(P);

           for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
              if (interp_step(s))
                 return true;
           }

           return false;
        }

    H initializes an interpreter for its argument P.
    Then it applies a very simple abort logic: it
    steps the interpreter state three times. If
    during those three steps, P terminates, it returns
    true. Otherwise it assumes P is nonterminating and
    returns false.

    (Pretend that more complicated abort criteria are there.)

    The interpreter API consists of primitives built
    into the system, so it isn't traced.

    So then we have D:

        void D(void)
        {
           if (H(D)) { for (;;); }
           return;
        }

    Let's trace H(D). We indicate the simulation levels from 0,
    step numbers from 1 within each level, with a bit of indentation
    to tell apart the levels:


    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.





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  • From Mikko@[email protected] to comp.theory on Fri Nov 7 10:10:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-11-06 11:11:19 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/6/2025 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-05 11:40:50 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/5/2025 4:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-04 12:33:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about >>>>>>>> computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for >>>>>>>> comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content >>>>>> is on topic of the group.

    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.

    Kaz is off-topic for comp.theory.

    He is on topic here:
    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    The subject line is still about the author. The message says nothing
    about topics of comp.theory.

    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*

    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    On 11/3/2025 10:28 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:

    How about this minimal viable H:

    #include <interpret.h> // C interpreter's own API

    bool H(fptr P)
    {
    interp *s = interp_init(P);

    for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
    if (interp_step(s))
    return true;
    }

    return false;
    }

    H initializes an interpreter for its argument P.
    Then it applies a very simple abort logic: it
    steps the interpreter state three times. If
    during those three steps, P terminates, it returns
    true. Otherwise it assumes P is nonterminating and
    returns false.

    (Pretend that more complicated abort criteria are there.)

    The interpreter API consists of primitives built
    into the system, so it isn't traced.

    So then we have D:

    void D(void)
    {
    if (H(D)) { for (;;); }
    return;
    }

    Let's trace H(D). We indicate the simulation levels from 0,
    step numbers from 1 within each level, with a bit of indentation
    to tell apart the levels:


    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:

    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.

    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.

    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.


    This time the subject line seems to be on topic but it contains tymbols
    D and H that are undefined in the context. However, now the message is
    merely about another poster and therefore off topic.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Fri Nov 7 06:58:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/7/2025 2:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-06 11:11:19 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/6/2025 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-05 11:40:50 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/5/2025 4:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-04 12:33:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about >>>>>>>>> computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for >>>>>>>>> comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content >>>>>>> is on topic of the group.

    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.

    Kaz is off-topic for comp.theory.

    He is on topic here:
    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    The subject line is still about the author. The message says nothing
    about topics of comp.theory.

    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*

    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    On 11/3/2025 10:28 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    ;
    How about this minimal viable H:
    ;
    ;    #include <interpret.h>  // C interpreter's own API
    ;
    ;    bool H(fptr P)
    ;    {
    ;       interp *s = interp_init(P);
    ;
    ;       for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
    ;          if (interp_step(s))
    ;             return true;
    ;       }
    ;
    ;       return false;
    ;    }
    ;
    H initializes an interpreter for its argument P.
    Then it applies a very simple abort logic: it
    steps the interpreter state three times. If
    during those three steps, P terminates, it returns
    true. Otherwise it assumes P is nonterminating and
    returns false.
    ;
    (Pretend that more complicated abort criteria are there.)
    ;
    The interpreter API consists of primitives built
    into the system, so it isn't traced.
    ;
    So then we have D:
    ;
    ;    void D(void)
    ;    {
    ;       if (H(D)) { for (;;); }
    ;       return;
    ;    }
    ;
    Let's trace H(D). We indicate the simulation levels from 0,
    step numbers from 1 within each level, with a bit of indentation
    to tell apart the levels:
    ;

    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    ;
    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.
    ;
    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.
    ;
    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.
    ;

    This time the subject line seems to be on topic but it contains tymbols
    D and H that are undefined in the context. However, now the message is
    merely about another poster and therefore off topic.



    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
    H(D);
    return 0;
    }

    H simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    Until H aborts.

    This is just ordinary C that no one
    here understands. I have been programming
    in C since K & R was the standard.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sat Nov 8 10:40:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-11-07 12:58:19 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/7/2025 2:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-06 11:11:19 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/6/2025 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-05 11:40:50 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/5/2025 4:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-04 12:33:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about >>>>>>>>>> computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for >>>>>>>>>> comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage content >>>>>>>> is on topic of the group.

    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.

    Kaz is off-topic for comp.theory.

    He is on topic here:
    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    The subject line is still about the author. The message says nothing
    about topics of comp.theory.

    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*

    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    On 11/3/2025 10:28 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    ;
    How about this minimal viable H:
    ;
    ;    #include <interpret.h>  // C interpreter's own API
    ;
    ;    bool H(fptr P)
    ;    {
    ;       interp *s = interp_init(P);
    ;
    ;       for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
    ;          if (interp_step(s))
    ;             return true;
    ;       }
    ;
    ;       return false;
    ;    }
    ;
    H initializes an interpreter for its argument P.
    Then it applies a very simple abort logic: it
    steps the interpreter state three times. If
    during those three steps, P terminates, it returns
    true. Otherwise it assumes P is nonterminating and
    returns false.
    ;
    (Pretend that more complicated abort criteria are there.)
    ;
    The interpreter API consists of primitives built
    into the system, so it isn't traced.
    ;
    So then we have D:
    ;
    ;    void D(void)
    ;    {
    ;       if (H(D)) { for (;;); }
    ;       return;
    ;    }
    ;
    Let's trace H(D). We indicate the simulation levels from 0,
    step numbers from 1 within each level, with a bit of indentation
    to tell apart the levels:
    ;

    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    ;
    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.
    ;
    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.
    ;
    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.
    ;

    This time the subject line seems to be on topic but it contains tymbols
    D and H that are undefined in the context. However, now the message is
    merely about another poster and therefore off topic.

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
    H(D);
    return 0;
    }

    H simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    Until H aborts.

    This is just ordinary C that no one
    here understands. I have been programming
    in C since K & R was the standard.

    What was said about the subject is still true. This time the message
    is about the autothor and about "no one here", both of which are off
    topic in comp.theory.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sat Nov 8 07:48:28 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/8/2025 2:40 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-07 12:58:19 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/7/2025 2:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-06 11:11:19 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/6/2025 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-05 11:40:50 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/5/2025 4:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-04 12:33:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/4/2025 4:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 23:24:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/2/2025 6:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-11-01 18:51:54 +0000, olcott said:

    I am only referring to the mental execution trace
    of D simulated by H performing this trace in C as
    specified below.

    The subject line and the message are about the author, not about >>>>>>>>>>> computations or computtion theory, and therefore off-topic for >>>>>>>>>>> comp.theory.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

    The subject line is still about the author but the meassage >>>>>>>>> content
    is on topic of the group.

    Kaz has insisted to only talk about the x86 code so I
    needed to lead with this.

    Kaz is off-topic for comp.theory.

    He is on topic here:
    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    The subject line is still about the author. The message says nothing >>>>> about topics of comp.theory.

    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*
    *Kaz finally came through*

    news://news.eternal-september.org/[email protected]

    On 11/3/2025 10:28 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    ;
    How about this minimal viable H:
    ;
    ;    #include <interpret.h>  // C interpreter's own API
    ;
    ;    bool H(fptr P)
    ;    {
    ;       interp *s = interp_init(P);
    ;
    ;       for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
    ;          if (interp_step(s))
    ;             return true;
    ;       }
    ;
    ;       return false;
    ;    }
    ;
    H initializes an interpreter for its argument P.
    Then it applies a very simple abort logic: it
    steps the interpreter state three times. If
    during those three steps, P terminates, it returns
    true. Otherwise it assumes P is nonterminating and
    returns false.
    ;
    (Pretend that more complicated abort criteria are there.)
    ;
    The interpreter API consists of primitives built
    into the system, so it isn't traced.
    ;
    So then we have D:
    ;
    ;    void D(void)
    ;    {
    ;       if (H(D)) { for (;;); }
    ;       return;
    ;    }
    ;
    Let's trace H(D). We indicate the simulation levels from 0,
    step numbers from 1 within each level, with a bit of indentation
    to tell apart the levels:
    ;

    On 11/4/2025 8:43 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    ;
    The whole point is that D simulated by H
    cannot possbly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement no matter what H does.
    ;
    Yes; this doesn't happen while H is running.
    ;
    So while H does /something/, no matter what H does,
    that D simulation won't reach the return statement.
    ;

    This time the subject line seems to be on topic but it contains tymbols
    D and H that are undefined in the context. However, now the message is
    merely about another poster and therefore off topic.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
       H(D);
       return 0;
    }

    H simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    that simulates D that calls H(D)
    Until H aborts.

    This is just ordinary C that no one
    here understands. I have been programming
    in C since K & R was the standard.

    What was said about the subject is still true. This time the message
    is about the autothor and about "no one here", both of which are off
    topic in comp.theory.


    I give up on you
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2