• Re: "duffer speak" ??? Mike can't be dishonest so what is left ?

    From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 12:18:56 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 10:12 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:13 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:09 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:00 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:57 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:48 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... >>>>>>>> what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.


    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must >>>> be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    I provided this C function

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    and I specified that at this point the entire
    definition of H is that H simulates D.

    And the meaning of this sentence differs depending on whether each
    instance of "D" and "H" refer to:
    * an algorithm
    * a C function
    * a finite string


    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?

    You didn't specify whether "D" referred to

    I provided the D in the body of the message you
    are just being dishonest.

    C function D, algorithm D, or finite string D?


    * an algorithm
    * a C function
    * a finite string

    Failure to prefix all instances of "H" and "D" outside of source code
    with exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    Will result in the given statement being rejected as unclear.



    False.  The below statement is unclear.  "D"

    D is provided and H is sufficiently defined.
    H simulates D is the entire definition of H at this point.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must >>>> be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    and "H" could refer to:
    * an algorithm: i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions
    such that where these instructions physically reside is irrelevant >>>>>> * a C function: has a specific name that can contain any arbitrary >>>>>> set of instructions
    * a finite string: some sequence of bytes that is stipulated to be >>>>>> a complete description of an algorithm and can therefore be used
    to exactly replicate the given algorithm and therefore contains
    all semantic properties of the described machine.

    Therefore, outside of actual source code, all references to D, DD, >>>>>> DDD, H, HHH, etc. must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and
    reference in
    your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the >>>>>>>> group
    can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which >>>>>>>> of the
    many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do / >>>>>>>> not/
    refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except >>>>>>>> citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that >>>>>>>> you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it >>>>>>>> verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to >>>>>>>> promote my greatness and general superiority without
    misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general >>>>>>>> superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT >>>>>>>> train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental >>>>>>>> AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements. >>>>>>>>












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  • From Richard Damon@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 14:10:32 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/25 12:14 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will
    finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will
    shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for
    him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.  Practically every sentence
    you write contains ambiguous or incoherent terminology.  I do not
    suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can see it when it
    is pointed out to you.  It is a natural effect of not being able to
    understand the basic terminology and concepts of the field.

    Mike.


    So you cannot begin to understand that
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement ???


    The problem is that is irrelevent to the halting problem, and is
    actually a sentenced based on exactly the sort of ambiguity that was mentioned.

    The Simulation by H of D, won't reach that state, but that is more a
    property of H.

    The D, that H simulated, WILL reach the final state, as D's behavior
    isn't dependent on who simulates it, as D it the actual functions, and
    its behavior is what it does when run.

    The matching or difference between the actual behaior of D and the
    simulation of D done by H are a measure of the correctness of the
    simulation.

    Claiming an incorrect simulate determines a property of the original is
    just an admission that you don't believe that truth exists, and that you
    think it is ok to make false statements.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 14:26:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 1:10 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/2/25 12:14 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will
    finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will
    shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for
    him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.  Practically every
    sentence you write contains ambiguous or incoherent terminology.  I
    do not suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can see it
    when it is pointed out to you.  It is a natural effect of not being
    able to understand the basic terminology and concepts of the field.

    Mike.


    So you cannot begin to understand that
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement ???


    The problem is that is irrelevent to the halting problem,
    If you would accept this step then after
    a few more steps I could show something
    quite interesting. No one has ever accepted
    this truism besides Ben.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 14:29:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 9:23 AM, wij wrote:
    On Sun, 2025-11-02 at 22:12 +0800, wij wrote:
    On Sun, 2025-11-02 at 07:54 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:46 AM, wij wrote:
    On Sun, 2025-11-02 at 07:16 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is >>>>>> up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
        int Halt_Status = H(D);
        if (Halt_Status)
          HERE: goto HERE;
        return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Yes, this is the proof that olcott contradicted POO H.


    You can even get the insult correctly.

    What? It is smear.
    I said you posted an evidence that contradicts what POOH claims.

    I already know you are very shameless to be impenetrable by any insult,
    why would I do that?

    On the other hand, this is an evidence that olcott deliberately lies:
    he knows exactly what undecidable is and hide it in 'proof'.


    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.


    What you said is NOT what you showed, as the above D() which is pretty much the simple pattern of HP proof. You slapped your face.
    You confirmed that:

    "*THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.:


    No one besides Ben has ever accepted that
    simple truism in three years preventing me
    from proceeding to my next steps.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 14:31:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 11:18 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 10:12 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:13 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:09 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:00 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:57 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:48 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... >>>>>>>>> what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.


    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H"
    must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    I provided this C function

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    and I specified that at this point the entire
    definition of H is that H simulates D.

    And the meaning of this sentence differs depending on whether each
    instance of "D" and "H" refer to:
    * an algorithm
    * a C function
    * a finite string


    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?

    You didn't specify whether "D" referred to

    I provided the D in the body of the message you
    are just being dishonest.

    C function D, algorithm D, or finite string D?


    This thing right here that I have been repeating
    20 times a day every day for the last three years.

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 16:42:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 3:31 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 11:18 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 10:12 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:13 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:09 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:00 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:57 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:48 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... >>>>>>>>>> what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.


    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H"
    must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    I provided this C function

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    and I specified that at this point the entire
    definition of H is that H simulates D.

    And the meaning of this sentence differs depending on whether each
    instance of "D" and "H" refer to:
    * an algorithm
    * a C function
    * a finite string


    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided? >>>>> Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided? >>>>> Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided? >>>>> Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided? >>>>> Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?

    You didn't specify whether "D" referred to

    I provided the D in the body of the message you
    are just being dishonest.

    C function D, algorithm D, or finite string D?


    This thing right here that I have been repeating
    20 times a day every day for the last three years.

    int D()
    {
      int Halt_Status = H(D);
      if (Halt_Status)
        HERE: goto HERE;
      return Halt_Status;
    }



    That's the definition of a function named D. It references an undefined function named H.

    Now state your claim about the above, making sure that any sentence that
    uses "H" or "D" prefixes it with exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.ai.philosophy on Sun Nov 2 18:25:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 19:32:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear. All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 18:35:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Heathfield@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 01:00:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 03/11/2025 00:32, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:

    <snip>

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H"
    must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    It can be re-stated clearly enough:

    "Olcott claims that H's simulation of D never halts."

    Observation shows that Olcott's claim is mistaken.

    So nothing new there.
    --
    Richard Heathfield
    Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 20:04:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 7:35 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must
    be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
      int Halt_Status = H(D);
      if (Halt_Status)
        HERE: goto HERE;
      return Halt_Status;
    }



    That part is clear. What's not clear is the sentence:

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 20:06:01 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:00 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 03/11/2025 00:32, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:

    <snip>

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must
    be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    It can be re-stated clearly enough:

    "Olcott claims that H's simulation of D never halts."

    But is that:

    * C function H's simulation of C function D
    * Algorithm H's simulation of algorithm D
    * C function H's simulation of algorithm D
    * Algorithm H's simulation of C function D

    The answer differs depending on which one is meant.


    Observation shows that Olcott's claim is mistaken.

    So nothing new there.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 19:07:29 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 7:00 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 03/11/2025 00:32, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:

    <snip>

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must
    be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    It can be re-stated clearly enough:

    "Olcott claims that H's simulation of D never halts."

    It has taken me three years to get those words
    exactly correctly so that they form the basis
    for the next step of my proof.

    *These are those words*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Observation shows that Olcott's claim is mistaken.


    Because you cheated and changed the words that
    took me three years to get exactly correctly.

    So nothing new there.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 20:08:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:00 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 03/11/2025 00:32, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:

    <snip>

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must
    be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    It can be re-stated clearly enough:

    "Olcott claims that H's simulation of D never halts."

    It has taken me three years to get those words
    exactly correctly so that they form the basis
    for the next step of my proof.

    *These are those words*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    And those exact words are unclear.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string



    Observation shows that Olcott's claim is mistaken.


    Because you cheated and changed the words that
    took me three years to get exactly correctly.

    So nothing new there.




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 19:17:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 7:04 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:35 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must
    be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }



    That part is clear.  What's not clear is the sentence:

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    D is a finite string in the C programming
    language that specifies a sequence of steps
    and defines a C function.

    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?

    H is something or other that can simulate
    D and is callable from D.

    Does that sound like a dead bullfrog?
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 20:26:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:17 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:04 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:35 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must >>>> be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }



    That part is clear.  What's not clear is the sentence:

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    D is a finite string

    And what exactly is that finite string composed of?

    in the C programming
    language that specifies a sequence of steps
    and defines a C function.

    So you're claiming that finite string D is a description of C function D?


    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?

    H is something or other that can simulate
    D and is callable from D.

    So it sounds like H is not well-defined. Unless you can classify it as
    a C function, finite string, or algorithm, you claim will be dismissed out-of-hand as unclear.


    Does that sound like a dead bullfrog?


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 20:25:32 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 7:26 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:17 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:04 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:35 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H"
    must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }



    That part is clear.  What's not clear is the sentence:

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    D is a finite string

    And what exactly is that finite string composed of?

    in the C programming
    language that specifies a sequence of steps
    and defines a C function.

    So you're claiming that finite string D is a description of C function D?


    No that is too vague. It is exactly what I said it is.
    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?


    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?

    H is something or other that can simulate
    D and is callable from D.

    So it sounds like H is not well-defined.

    It is 100% perfectly and completely defined for
    its specific purpose.

    Unless you can classify it as
    a C function, finite string, or algorithm, you claim will be dismissed out-of-hand as unclear.


    Yes because simulation might be construed as an
    actual slap in the actual face and have nothing
    to do with following the steps specified by the
    C source code.


    Does that sound like a dead bullfrog?


    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 21:33:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 9:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:26 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:17 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:04 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:35 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H"
    must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }



    That part is clear.  What's not clear is the sentence:

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    D is a finite string

    And what exactly is that finite string composed of?


    The lack of reply here indicates you don't know what the finite string D is.

    in the C programming
    language that specifies a sequence of steps
    and defines a C function.

    So you're claiming that finite string D is a description of C function D?


    No that is too vague. It is exactly what I said it is.

    And what exactly is vague about it?

    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?


    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?

    H is something or other that can simulate
    D and is callable from D.

    So it sounds like H is not well-defined.

    It is 100% perfectly and completely defined for
    its specific purpose.

    "something or other" is the exact opposite of 100% perfectly and
    completely defined.


    Unless you can classify it as a C function, finite string, or
    algorithm, you claim will be dismissed out-of-hand as unclear.


    Yes because simulation might be construed as an
    actual slap in the actual face and have nothing
    to do with following the steps specified by the
    C source code.


    Then your statement is dismissed out-of-hand as unclear as you haven't
    defined whether "H" refers a C function, algorithm, finite string, or something else.


    Does that sound like a dead bullfrog?





    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Heathfield@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 02:35:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 03/11/2025 01:06, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:00 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 03/11/2025 00:32, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:

    <snip>

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and
    "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    It can be re-stated clearly enough:

    "Olcott claims that H's simulation of D never halts."

    But is that:

    * C function H's simulation of C function D

    No. H doesn't have access to the C code. Clearly it *could* have
    - Olcott could pass a .c file name - but he doesn't like the idea.

    * Algorithm H's simulation of algorithm D

    No. Olcott's claim that it's simulating D is mistaken. H is not
    simulating an algorithm. It's trying to simulate an x86 (and
    making a lousy job of it).

    * C function H's simulation of algorithm D

    No. H isn't simulating an algorithm.

    * Algorithm H's simulation of C function D

    No. H isn't simulating an algorithm.


    The answer differs depending on which one is meant.

    No, I don't think so. The answer is no no no no no no no.
    --
    Richard Heathfield
    Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 20:53:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:33 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:26 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:17 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:04 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:35 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" >>>>>>> must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }



    That part is clear.  What's not clear is the sentence:

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    D is a finite string

    And what exactly is that finite string composed of?


    The lack of reply here indicates you don't know what the finite string D
    is.


    You never heard of ASCII characters?

    in the C programming
    language that specifies a sequence of steps
    and defines a C function.

    So you're claiming that finite string D is a description of C
    function D?


    No that is too vague. It is exactly what I said it is.

    And what exactly is vague about it?


    The term "description" when applied in software
    engineering has a different much more vague
    meaning that machine description in theoretical
    computer science.

    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?


    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?

    H is something or other that can simulate
    D and is callable from D.

    So it sounds like H is not well-defined.

    It is 100% perfectly and completely defined for
    its specific purpose.

    "something or other" is the exact opposite of 100% perfectly and
    completely defined.


    For the purposes of verifying this statement

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    It is 100% completely defined.

    That you insist on knowing irrelevant
    details such as that the C function is
    encoded in ASCII proves that you are
    not being honest.


    Unless you can classify it as a C function, finite string, or
    algorithm, you claim will be dismissed out-of-hand as unclear.


    Yes because simulation might be construed as an
    actual slap in the actual face and have nothing
    to do with following the steps specified by the
    C source code.


    Then your statement is dismissed out-of-hand as unclear as you haven't defined whether "H" refers a C function, algorithm, finite string, or something else.


    Does that sound like a dead bullfrog?





    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 20:54:29 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:35 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 03/11/2025 01:06, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:00 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 03/11/2025 00:32, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:

    <snip>

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must >>>> be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    It can be re-stated clearly enough:

    "Olcott claims that H's simulation of D never halts."

    But is that:

    * C function H's simulation of C function D

    No. H doesn't have access to the C code. Clearly it *could* have -
    Olcott could pass a .c file name - but he doesn't like the idea.

    * Algorithm H's simulation of algorithm D

    No. Olcott's claim that it's simulating D is mistaken. H is not
    simulating an algorithm. It's trying to simulate an x86 (and making a
    lousy job of it).

    * C function H's simulation of algorithm D

    No. H isn't simulating an algorithm.

    * Algorithm H's simulation of C function D

    No. H isn't simulating an algorithm.


    The answer differs depending on which one is meant.

    No, I don't think so. The answer is no no no no no no no.


    He is clearly just playing head games.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 22:11:56 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 9:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:33 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:26 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:17 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:04 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:35 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" >>>>>>>> must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }



    That part is clear.  What's not clear is the sentence:

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    D is a finite string

    And what exactly is that finite string composed of?


    The lack of reply here indicates you don't know what the finite string
    D is.


    You never heard of ASCII characters?

    Are you suggesting finite string D is the ASCII character 'D'? That's
    not what the above code is being passed.


    in the C programming
    language that specifies a sequence of steps
    and defines a C function.

    So you're claiming that finite string D is a description of C
    function D?


    No that is too vague. It is exactly what I said it is.

    And what exactly is vague about it?


    The term "description" when applied in software
    engineering has a different much more vague
    meaning that machine description in theoretical
    computer science.

    Then explain:
    1) what exactly the finite string D is, and
    2) what exactly the finite string D represents


    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?


    Did you think it was a box of chocolates?

    H is something or other that can simulate
    D and is callable from D.

    So it sounds like H is not well-defined.

    It is 100% perfectly and completely defined for
    its specific purpose.

    "something or other" is the exact opposite of 100% perfectly and
    completely defined.


    For the purposes of verifying this statement

     D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
      own simulated "return" statement.

    Dismissed out-of-hand as unclear, as the above has different meanings depending on whether each of "D" and "H" in the above sentence refer to
    a C function, an algorithm, or a finite string.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    It is 100% completely defined.


    False, see above.

    That you insist on knowing irrelevant
    details such as that the C function is
    encoded in ASCII proves that you are
    not being honest.

    No, it is proven that *you* are not being honest as you refuse to
    clarify whether "H" and "D" refer to a C function, an algorithm, or a
    finite string.



    Unless you can classify it as a C function, finite string, or
    algorithm, you claim will be dismissed out-of-hand as unclear.


    Yes because simulation might be construed as an
    actual slap in the actual face and have nothing
    to do with following the steps specified by the
    C source code.


    Then your statement is dismissed out-of-hand as unclear as you haven't
    defined whether "H" refers a C function, algorithm, finite string, or
    something else.


    Does that sound like a dead bullfrog?








    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 21:13:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:35 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 03/11/2025 01:06, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:00 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 03/11/2025 00:32, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:

    <snip>

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must >>>> be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    It can be re-stated clearly enough:

    "Olcott claims that H's simulation of D never halts."

    But is that:

    * C function H's simulation of C function D

    No. H doesn't have access to the C code. Clearly it *could* have -
    Olcott could pass a .c file name - but he doesn't like the idea.


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Stipulates that H has access to D, the
    details don't matter and only confuse people.

    * Algorithm H's simulation of algorithm D

    No. Olcott's claim that it's simulating D is mistaken. H is not
    simulating an algorithm. It's trying to simulate an x86 (and making a
    lousy job of it).


    It is stipulated thus cannot be mistaken unless
    the stipulation is incoherent.

    On 10/31/2025 7:44 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    I can write a C interpreter which can interpret itself.

    Tries to get away with saying that he has no idea
    what D simulated by H could possibly mean.

    * C function H's simulation of algorithm D

    No. H isn't simulating an algorithm.

    * Algorithm H's simulation of C function D

    No. H isn't simulating an algorithm.


    The answer differs depending on which one is meant.

    No, I don't think so. The answer is no no no no no no no.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 21:16:13 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 9:11 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:33 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:26 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:17 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:04 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:35 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" >>>>>>>>> must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }



    That part is clear.  What's not clear is the sentence:

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of: >>>>>>> * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    D is a finite string

    And what exactly is that finite string composed of?


    The lack of reply here indicates you don't know what the finite
    string D is.


    You never heard of ASCII characters?

    Are you suggesting finite string D is the ASCII character 'D'?  That's
    not what the above code is being passed.


    The finite string of the source code for the C
    function named D is composed of ASCII characters.

    As has been dead fucking obvious all along. You
    only ask to play childish head games.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 22:27:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 10:16 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:11 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:33 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:26 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:17 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:04 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:35 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 6:32 PM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.

    *Just pay 100% complete attention to this one sentence*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and >>>>>>>>>> "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    Did you think that this might be a box of
    chocolates unless I told you otherwise?

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }



    That part is clear.  What's not clear is the sentence:

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of: >>>>>>>> * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    D is a finite string

    And what exactly is that finite string composed of?


    The lack of reply here indicates you don't know what the finite
    string D is.


    You never heard of ASCII characters?

    Are you suggesting finite string D is the ASCII character 'D'?  That's
    not what the above code is being passed.


    The finite string of the source code for the C
    function named D is composed of ASCII characters.

    The function H is clearly being passed a function pointer, not a string
    of ASCII characters.

    Try again.


    As has been dead fucking obvious all along. You
    only ask to play childish head games.

    No, what's dead obvious is that that you have no idea what you're
    talking about and are making things up as you go.

    You're clearly thrashing since Kaz showed with fully operational source
    that the D that H simulates will halt after a finite number of steps.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Heathfield@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 03:49:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 03/11/2025 03:27, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 10:16 PM, olcott wrote:

    <snip>

    The finite string of the source code for the C
    function named D is composed of ASCII characters.

    The function H is clearly being passed a function pointer, not a
    string of ASCII characters.

    Clearly a bug in H. Let us take Olcott at his word and give H a
    finite string. Since he insists that the universe of discourse is
    C, let us make it a C string.

    const char *D =
    "int D()\n"
    "{\n"
    " int Halt_Status = H(D);\n"
    " if (Halt_Status)\n"
    " HERE: goto HERE;\n"
    " return Halt_Status;\n
    "} \n";

    Now do H(D) and watch what happens when you take Olcott at his word.

    This is why I stopped replying directly to Olcott. It's just too
    cruel.
    --
    Richard Heathfield
    Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 22:58:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/25 3:26 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:10 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/2/25 12:14 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will >>>>>>> finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will
    shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for >>>>>> him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.  Practically every
    sentence you write contains ambiguous or incoherent terminology.  I
    do not suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can see it
    when it is pointed out to you.  It is a natural effect of not being
    able to understand the basic terminology and concepts of the field.

    Mike.


    So you cannot begin to understand that
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement ???


    The problem is that is irrelevent to the halting problem,
    If you would accept this step then after
    a few more steps I could show something
    quite interesting. No one has ever accepted
    this truism besides Ben.


    Why should I accept a self-contradictory and ambigious definition?

    Such a statement can't be a "truism", only a deception.

    Make it clear:

    Do you mean the behavior of the PROGRAM D, or of the (partial)
    Simulation of the input by H.

    The property of "Halting" as defined in the field, is an objective
    property of the progam being talked about. It is DEFINED to be what it
    does when it is actually run. As such, the thing being talked about
    needs to BE a program, and thus include ALL its code, and the input
    needs to include ALL the data it will use.

    Trying to deceptivly call the second a behavior of the input program is
    just a lie, a lie your arguement needs to be accepted.

    As I have pointed out, your definition of "didn't reach the final state
    in its simulation of the input", when applied generically to deciders
    means that a decider can call ALL input non-halting, if it just aborts
    right away. Since you allow aborting based on faulty logic, you can't
    just say that isn't allowed without admitting you are just a hypocrite.

    Your argument requires looking at the non-program and non-input of a
    different D that calls a different decider deceptively also called H.

    Your lies just prove you are just a stupid liar, because you just refuse
    to learn the actual meaning of the words, and misusing words by using
    them with the wrong meaning for their context, is just lying.

    If you want to redefine the words, be honest about it, and admit you are creating a new system of computation (or of logic) and get to work at
    actualy formally defining it. It seems your problem with this is you
    just don't understand enough to do that, as you have admitted that you
    never studied this field in any detail, and your ignorance is a bright
    shining light that you can't see in.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 22:24:30 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 9:49 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 03/11/2025 03:27, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 10:16 PM, olcott wrote:

    <snip>

    The finite string of the source code for the C
    function named D is composed of ASCII characters.

    The function H is clearly being passed a function pointer, not a
    string of ASCII characters.

    Clearly a bug in H. Let us take Olcott at his word and give H a finite string. Since he insists that the universe of discourse is C, let us
    make it a C string.

    const char *D =
    "int D()\n"
    "{\n"
    "   int Halt_Status = H(D);\n"
    "   if (Halt_Status)\n"
    "     HERE: goto HERE;\n"
    "   return Halt_Status;\n
    "} \n";

    Now do H(D) and watch what happens when you take Olcott at his word.

    This is why I stopped replying directly to Olcott. It's just too cruel.


    LLMs take me exactly at my word and
    sometimes they get the wrong answer
    because the spec is not precise enough.
    I just give them a few more details and
    they get it.

    This lets me boil the spec down to the
    simplest one that they all immediately get.

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    A C interpreter takes test.c containing
    only the function above and has been adapted
    so that it knows that H is a reference
    to itself. It also knows that D is a reference
    to the source code of function D.

    This is the spec that four LLMs get:
    *ChatGPT wrote this for me*

    ---------------------
    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    when given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce? -----------------------------------

    Claude AI was the only one that got this:

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    Can D simulated by H possibly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 22:27:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 9:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/2/25 3:26 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:10 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/2/25 12:14 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will >>>>>>>> finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will >>>>>>> shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for >>>>>>> him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.  Practically every
    sentence you write contains ambiguous or incoherent terminology.  I >>>>> do not suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can see
    it when it is pointed out to you.  It is a natural effect of not
    being able to understand the basic terminology and concepts of the
    field.

    Mike.


    So you cannot begin to understand that
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement ???


    The problem is that is irrelevent to the halting problem,
    If you would accept this step then after
    a few more steps I could show something
    quite interesting. No one has ever accepted
    this truism besides Ben.


    Why should I accept a self-contradictory and ambigious definition?


    *ALL four LLMs got this correctly*

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    when given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Damon@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 23:35:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/25 11:27 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/2/25 3:26 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:10 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/2/25 12:14 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will >>>>>>>>> finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will >>>>>>>> shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive >>>>>>>> for him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections. >>>>>>>
    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.  Practically every
    sentence you write contains ambiguous or incoherent terminology. >>>>>> I do not suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can
    see it when it is pointed out to you.  It is a natural effect of >>>>>> not being able to understand the basic terminology and concepts of >>>>>> the field.

    Mike.


    So you cannot begin to understand that
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement ???


    The problem is that is irrelevent to the halting problem,
    If you would accept this step then after
    a few more steps I could show something
    quite interesting. No one has ever accepted
    this truism besides Ben.


    Why should I accept a self-contradictory and ambigious definition?


    *ALL four LLMs got this correctly*

    int D()
    {
      int Halt_Status = H(D);
      if (Halt_Status)
        HERE: goto HERE;
      return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    when given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    No, they didn't, but failed because your input deceptively avoided
    allowing them for a possible solution, that the decider, in waiting till
    it can actually prove it has the correct answer, ends up looping forever.

    Your inability to understand that falibility of LLMs, just shows your
    natural ignorance of logic.

    Your problem is your persume a result for the simulation that isn't what
    the simulation would actually do, because your input isn't actually the required computation, and thus is just a lying catergory error.

    D includes in its definition, the EXACT H that you claim gets the right answer, and that can't change when you imagine your hypothetical H that doesn;t abort.

    All you are doing is proving your logic is based on changing the meaning
    of words from their actual meaning in context, and thux you logic system doesn't actually HAVE sematics at all, as words don't actually have
    their meanings.

    Falling back to fallacies, like appeal to authority, esspeciall to
    things that are not athorities, just shows how utterly stupid you are
    about logic.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 22:57:37 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 10:35 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/2/25 11:27 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/2/25 3:26 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:10 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/2/25 12:14 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here >>>>>>>>>> will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size >>>>>>>>> will shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive >>>>>>>>> for him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections. >>>>>>>>
    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.  Practically every
    sentence you write contains ambiguous or incoherent terminology. >>>>>>> I do not suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can >>>>>>> see it when it is pointed out to you.  It is a natural effect of >>>>>>> not being able to understand the basic terminology and concepts >>>>>>> of the field.

    Mike.


    So you cannot begin to understand that
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement ???


    The problem is that is irrelevent to the halting problem,
    If you would accept this step then after
    a few more steps I could show something
    quite interesting. No one has ever accepted
    this truism besides Ben.


    Why should I accept a self-contradictory and ambigious definition?


    *ALL four LLMs got this correctly*

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    when given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    No, they didn't, but failed because your input deceptively avoided
    allowing them for a possible solution, that the decider, in waiting till
    it can actually prove it has the correct answer, ends up looping forever.


    LLMs much be much smarter than you.
    Each one of them could directly see the
    non-terminating recursive simulation
    on their own.

    They showed an execution trace of this.

    Claude was the one that understood the original
    terse question:

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    Can D simulated by H possibly reach its own
    simulated "return" statement.

    https://claude.ai/share/2f356f99-412a-4082-bb9b-e28d56c13814
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon Nov 3 07:47:39 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
    abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
    "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 22:19:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections. 

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?

    H(D) can never return. 
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 10:32:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally >>>> stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to >>> "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You did not pay enough attention to the exact words
    that I said. LLM systems were able to pay 100% complete
    attention to every singe word.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 00:42:58 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 10:32 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
    "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
        int Halt_Status = H(D);
        if (Halt_Status)
          HERE: goto HERE;
        return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
          abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
          "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You did not pay enough attention to the exact words
    that I said. LLM systems were able to pay 100% complete
    attention to every singe word.
    Yes, people had paid >100% attention to your exact words, which is proved  (for the past years, every day) meaningless hallucination.
    You are day-dreaming, keep ignoring what the reality is.
    The D you posted is exactly the counter example of HP proof that demonstrates no halt decider can exist (not what you claim).
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 11:18:09 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally >>>> stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to >>> "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You simply ignored (a).
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 01:33:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
    "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
        int Halt_Status = H(D);
        if (Halt_Status)
          HERE: goto HERE;
        return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
          abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
          "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You simply ignored (a).
    You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 12:00:58 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 11:33 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally >>>>>> stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink >>>>> to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to >>>>> "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
        int Halt_Status = H(D);
        if (Halt_Status)
          HERE: goto HERE;
        return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
          abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
          "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You simply ignored (a).

    You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'.


    You ignored the fact that I am only talking about
    the actual steps of D actually simulated by H and
    not one damn thing else in the universe.

    That is why I had to specify the above verbose
    paragraphs to the LLM systems so they would not
    merely guess and guess incorrectly.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 02:13:24 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:00 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:33 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
    "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
         int Halt_Status = H(D);
         if (Halt_Status)
           HERE: goto HERE;
         return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
           abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
           "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You simply ignored (a).

    You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'.


    You ignored the fact that I am only talking about
    the actual steps of D actually simulated by H and
    not one damn thing else in the universe.
    Your D says:
    If H(D) returns non-zero (e.g. 1), D() will never return,
    else (i.e. 0), D() will return.
    Therefore, whatever H is, H cannot be a correct halt decider.
    That is why I had to specify the above verbose
    paragraphs to the LLM systems so they would not
    merely guess and guess incorrectly.
    Then, tell to LLM.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon Nov 3 12:30:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 12:13 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:00 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:33 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink >>>>>>> to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
    "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
         int Halt_Status = H(D);
         if (Halt_Status)
           HERE: goto HERE;
         return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
           abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
           "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You simply ignored (a).

    You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'.


    You ignored the fact that I am only talking about
    the actual steps of D actually simulated by H and
    not one damn thing else in the universe.

    Your D says:

    Nothing matters besides the actual execution trace
    of D simulated by H. LLM systems were also very
    stupid about this until I added these two paragraphs.

    Maybe paying 100% complete attention to every detail of
    these two paragraph is beyond your attention span:

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
    abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
    "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing
    P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return
    statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that
    literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what
    result should H(D) produce?
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 03:09:45 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:30 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 12:13 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:00 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:33 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
    "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
          int Halt_Status = H(D);
          if (Halt_Status)
            HERE: goto HERE;
          return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
            abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
            "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You simply ignored (a).

    You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'.


    You ignored the fact that I am only talking about
    the actual steps of D actually simulated by H and
    not one damn thing else in the universe.

    Your D says:

    Nothing matters besides the actual execution trace
    of D simulated by H.
    Repeat. you seemingly like to erase what you don't understand.
    Your D says: 
    If H(D) returns non-zero (e.g. 1), D() will never return,
    else (i.e. 0), D() will return.
    And, the actually execution trace of D simulated by H is an endless trace as  you had repeatedly UNAMBIGUOUSLY verified.
    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.
    LLM systems were also very
    stupid about this until I added these two paragraphs.

    Maybe paying 100% complete attention to every detail of
    these two paragraph is beyond your attention span:

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing
    P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return
    statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that
    literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what
    result should H(D) produce?
    These are useless POO details we don't need to know.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 13:16:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 1:09 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:30 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 12:13 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:00 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:33 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
    "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
          int Halt_Status = H(D);
          if (Halt_Status)
            HERE: goto HERE;
          return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
            abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
            "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown. >>>>>>>

    You simply ignored (a).

    You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'. >>>>>

    You ignored the fact that I am only talking about
    the actual steps of D actually simulated by H and
    not one damn thing else in the universe.

    Your D says:

    Nothing matters besides the actual execution trace
    of D simulated by H.

    Repeat. you seemingly like to erase what you don't understand.
    Your D says:

    If H(D) returns non-zero
    That is the guess what D does mode,
    not the actually trace what D actually
    simulated by H actually does mode.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 03:23:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:16 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:09 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:30 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 12:13 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:00 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:33 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
    "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
           int Halt_Status = H(D);
           if (Halt_Status)
             HERE: goto HERE;
           return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:          abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
             "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You simply ignored (a).

    You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'.


    You ignored the fact that I am only talking about
    the actual steps of D actually simulated by H and
    not one damn thing else in the universe.

    Your D says:

    Nothing matters besides the actual execution trace
    of D simulated by H.

    Repeat. you seemingly like to erase what you don't understand.
    Your D says:

       If H(D) returns non-zero
    That is the guess what D does mode,
    not the actually trace what D actually
    simulated by H actually does mode.

    So, the actual code is not what you shown? Why you post a false report?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 13:27:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 1:23 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:16 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:09 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:30 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 12:13 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:00 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:33 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
    "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
           int Halt_Status = H(D);
           if (Halt_Status)
             HERE: goto HERE;
           return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
             abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
             "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what
    should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown. >>>>>>>>>

    You simply ignored (a).

    You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'. >>>>>>>

    You ignored the fact that I am only talking about
    the actual steps of D actually simulated by H and
    not one damn thing else in the universe.

    Your D says:

    Nothing matters besides the actual execution trace
    of D simulated by H.

    Repeat. you seemingly like to erase what you don't understand.
    Your D says:

       If H(D) returns non-zero
    That is the guess what D does mode,
    not the actually trace what D actually
    simulated by H actually does mode.


    So, the actual code is not what you shown? Why you post a false report?



    This might just be beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini could all pay
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That may simply be too much for you.

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern: abort simulation and
    return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing
    P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return
    statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that
    literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what
    result should H(D) produce?
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 03:34:39 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:27 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:23 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:16 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:09 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:30 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 12:13 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 12:00 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:33 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 11:18 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:19 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 07:47 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to
    "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    int D()
    {
            int Halt_Status = H(D);
            if (Halt_Status)
              HERE: goto HERE;
            return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:

    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:           abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated           "return" statement: return 1.

    when given a function P, it literally simulates
    each step of executing P() to see whether that
    simulated execution ever reaches a return statement.

    Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of
    that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what result should H(D) produce?


    H(D) can never return.
    This condition is described as 'undecidable' as HP proof has shown.


    You simply ignored (a).

    You ignored the fact that HP asks for a real halt decider, not 'words'.


    You ignored the fact that I am only talking about
    the actual steps of D actually simulated by H and
    not one damn thing else in the universe.

    Your D says:

    Nothing matters besides the actual execution trace
    of D simulated by H.

    Repeat. you seemingly like to erase what you don't understand.
    Your D says:

        If H(D) returns non-zero
    That is the guess what D does mode,
    not the actually trace what D actually
    simulated by H actually does mode.


    So, the actual code is not what you shown? Why you post a false report?



    This might just be beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini could all pay
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That may simply be too much for you.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }
    You seems not to understand what your D says. Your D says:
    If H(D) returns non-zero (e.g. 1), D() will never return,
    else (i.e. 0), D() will return.
    It does not matter what H is (as whatever you say). The H inside D
    cannot be a correct halt decider.
    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern: abort simulation and
    return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing
    P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return
    statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that
    literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what
    result should H(D) produce?

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 13:37:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 1:34 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:27 -0600, olcott wrote:

    This might just be beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini could all pay
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That may simply be too much for you.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    You seems not to understand what your D says.

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    Your D says:
    If H(D) returns non-zero (e.g. 1), D() will never return,
    else (i.e. 0), D() will return.

    It does not matter what H is (as whatever you say). The H inside D
    cannot be a correct halt decider.

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern: abort simulation and
    return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing
    P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return
    statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that
    literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what
    result should H(D) produce?


    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 03:52:39 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:37 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:34 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:27 -0600, olcott wrote:

    This might just be beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini could all pay
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That may simply be too much for you.

    int D()
    {
        int Halt_Status = H(D);
        if (Halt_Status)
          HERE: goto HERE;
        return Halt_Status;
    }

    You seems not to understand what your D says.

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    Then, what does D says?
    Why you post a false report?
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?
    The HP does not care what the implement of H is (simulation or whatever is your own business).
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT HP IS?
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT HP IS?
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT HP IS?
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT HP IS?
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT HP IS?
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT HP IS?
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT HP IS?
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT HP IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    Your D says:
       If H(D) returns non-zero (e.g. 1), D() will never return,
       else (i.e. 0), D() will return.

    It does not matter what H is (as whatever you say). The H inside D
    cannot be a correct halt decider.

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern: abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what result should H(D) produce?



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 13:57:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 1:52 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:37 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:34 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:27 -0600, olcott wrote:

    This might just be beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini could all pay
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That may simply be too much for you.

    int D()
    {
        int Halt_Status = H(D);
        if (Halt_Status)
          HERE: goto HERE;
        return Halt_Status;
    }

    You seems not to understand what your D says.

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS

    Then, what does D says?
    Why you post a false report?


    If you had any attention span at all you would
    see that when D is simulated by H then D doesn't
    get to say anything. D remains stuck in recursive
    simulation never getting past its first line.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 04:01:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:57 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:52 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:37 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:34 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:27 -0600, olcott wrote:

    This might just be beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini could all pay
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That may simply be too much for you.

    int D()
    {
         int Halt_Status = H(D);
         if (Halt_Status)
           HERE: goto HERE;
         return Halt_Status;
    }

    You seems not to understand what your D says.

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS

    Then, what does D says?
    Why you post a false report?


    If you had any attention span at all you would
    see that when D is simulated by H then D doesn't
    get to say anything. D remains stuck in recursive
    simulation never getting past its first line.
    So, the H(D) in D never returns ?
    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }
    You seem to not even understand what you typed.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 14:31:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 2:01 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:57 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:52 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:37 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:34 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:27 -0600, olcott wrote:

    This might just be beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini could all pay
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That may simply be too much for you.

    int D()
    {
         int Halt_Status = H(D);
         if (Halt_Status)
           HERE: goto HERE;
         return Halt_Status;
    }

    You seems not to understand what your D says.

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS

    Then, what does D says?
    Why you post a false report?


    If you had any attention span at all you would
    see that when D is simulated by H then D doesn't
    get to say anything. D remains stuck in recursive
    simulation never getting past its first line.

    So, the H(D) in D never returns ?


    *D simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation*

    I have been proving this ten times a day every single
    day for three years. If you had any idea what an execution
    trace is you would have immediately known that.

    H(D) does return because it is as smart as Claude AI,
    ChatGPT 5.0, Grok, and Gemini and can directly see
    the trivial non-halting behavior pattern.

    H simulates D that calls H
    that simulates D that calls H
    that simulates D that calls H
    that simulates D that calls H
    that simulates D that calls H...

    Do people that come to comp.theory typically not
    know ANYTHING about actual computer programming?

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    You seem to not even understand what you typed.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 14:46:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 2:29 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-03, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Yet H must simulate itself simulating D
    and H1 must not simulate itself simulating D.
    I never even had to tell the LLMs about this
    they all figured this out on their own.

    If they didn't write a working simulator that produces concrete,
    verifiable execution traces, it is just nice sounding hot air.


    It has been three years and every single rebuttal has
    either changed my words or skipped the exact meaning
    of some of my words as the entire basis for their fake
    rebuttal.

    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini all paid
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    No human here seems to have enough attention span to
    pay attention to every 100% of single detail of this:

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
    abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
    "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Kaz Kylheku@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 20:59:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-11-03, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 2:29 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-03, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Yet H must simulate itself simulating D
    and H1 must not simulate itself simulating D.
    I never even had to tell the LLMs about this
    they all figured this out on their own.

    If they didn't write a working simulator that produces concrete,
    verifiable execution traces, it is just nice sounding hot air.

    It has been three years and every single rebuttal has
    either changed my words or skipped the exact meaning
    of some of my words as the entire basis for their fake
    rebuttal.

    ... or showed that your garbage code doesn't corroborate the
    nonsense that are spewing. But let's sweep that back under
    the rug ....

    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini all paid
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That amounts to fuck all; just clap-trap from token-predicting slot
    machines, from converastions in which you endlessly iterate
    on your your nonsense rhetoric until you fill the entire context
    with it, obtaining consensus by brute force.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated

    What /it/ simulates? URL?

    Where can the code be obtained for producing execution traces?

    No code -> you have nothing!
    --
    TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
    Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
    Mastodon: @[email protected]
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris M. Thomasson@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 13:00:30 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 12:46 PM, olcott wrote:
    [...]

    No human here seems to have enough attention span to
    pay attention to every 100% of single detail of this:

    lol. You are a special human? Oh man, did you get abducted by aliens?

    [...]
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 15:03:41 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 2:59 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-03, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 2:29 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-03, olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Yet H must simulate itself simulating D
    and H1 must not simulate itself simulating D.
    I never even had to tell the LLMs about this
    they all figured this out on their own.

    If they didn't write a working simulator that produces concrete,
    verifiable execution traces, it is just nice sounding hot air.

    It has been three years and every single rebuttal has
    either changed my words or skipped the exact meaning
    of some of my words as the entire basis for their fake
    rebuttal.

    ... or showed that your garbage code doesn't corroborate the
    nonsense that are spewing. But let's sweep that back under
    the rug ....

    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini all paid
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That amounts to fuck all; just clap-trap
    If that was not a damned lie you could point to
    an actual error.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 05:22:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 14:31 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 2:01 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:57 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:52 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:37 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 1:34 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 13:27 -0600, olcott wrote:

    This might just be beyond your intellectual capacity.
    Claude AI, ChatGPT 5.0, Grok and Gemini could all pay
    100% complete attention to every single detail.

    That may simply be too much for you.

    int D()
    {
          int Halt_Status = H(D);
          if (Halt_Status)
            HERE: goto HERE;
          return Halt_Status;
    }

    You seems not to understand what your D says.

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS
    IT IS ABOUT THE EXACT EXECUTION TRACE OF D SIMULATED BY H
    DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN EXECUTION TRACE IS?

    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT D SAYS

    Then, what does D says?
    Why you post a false report?


    If you had any attention span at all you would
    see that when D is simulated by H then D doesn't
    get to say anything. D remains stuck in recursive
    simulation never getting past its first line.

    So, the H(D) in D never returns ?


    *D simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation*

    I have been proving this ten times a day every single
    day for three years. If you had any idea what an execution
    trace is you would have immediately known that.

    H(D) does return because
    If H(D) does return, what does your post mean:
    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D); // <---- Does this H(D) return?
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }
    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.
    Deception?
    I had asked 3 times, you kept dodging or never get to understand.
    Answer the question: What does the H(D) in D's definition return (and what value)
    or not return?
    it is as smart as Claude AI,
    ChatGPT 5.0, Grok, and Gemini and can directly see
    the trivial non-halting behavior pattern.

    H simulates D that calls H
    that simulates D that calls H
    that simulates D that calls H
    that simulates D that calls H
    that simulates D that calls H...

    Do people that come to comp.theory typically not
    know ANYTHING about actual computer programming?
    You don't realize you are CS idiot in computer programming.
       int D()
       {
          int Halt_Status = H(D);
          if (Halt_Status)
             HERE: goto HERE;
          return Halt_Status;
       }

    You seem to not even understand what you typed.




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 15:32:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 3:22 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 14:31 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 2:01 PM, wij wrote:


    If H(D) does return, what does your post mean:

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D); // <---- Does this H(D) return?
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Maybe you need to carefully study these words reading
    them over-and-over again and again until you can pay 100%
    complete attention to every tiny detail of everything that
    they specify.

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
    abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
    "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr Flibble@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 22:38:29 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 03 Nov 2025 15:32:08 -0600, olcott wrote:

    On 11/3/2025 3:22 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 14:31 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 2:01 PM, wij wrote:


    If H(D) does return, what does your post mean:

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D); // <---- Does this H(D) return?
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated "return"
    statement.


    Maybe you need to carefully study these words reading them over-and-over again and again until you can pay 100% complete attention to every tiny detail of everything that they specify.

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
    abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
    "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing
    P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return
    statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that
    literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what
    result should H(D) produce?

    It doesn't matter what result H(D) produces because D will do the opposite making H wrong.

    /Flibble
    --
    meet ever shorter deadlines, known as "beat the clock"
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris M. Thomasson@[email protected] to comp.theory on Mon Nov 3 15:25:46 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/3/2025 2:38 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
    On Mon, 03 Nov 2025 15:32:08 -0600, olcott wrote:

    On 11/3/2025 3:22 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 14:31 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 2:01 PM, wij wrote:


    If H(D) does return, what does your post mean:

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D); // <---- Does this H(D) return?
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated "return"
    statement.


    Maybe you need to carefully study these words reading them over-and-over
    again and again until you can pay 100% complete attention to every tiny
    detail of everything that they specify.

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
    abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
    "return" statement: return 1.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each step of executing
    P() to see whether that simulated execution ever reaches a return
    statement. Now let H simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that
    literal simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen), what
    result should H(D) produce?

    It doesn't matter what result H(D) produces because D will do the opposite making H wrong.


    Hijack HHH(DD), H(D), whatever his crap is. For fun:

    ____________________________
    1 HOME
    5 PRINT "ct_dr_fuzz lol. ;^)"
    6 P0 = 0
    7 P1 = 0

    10 REM Fuzzer... ;^)
    20 A$ = "NOPE!"
    30 IF RND(1) < .5 THEN A$ = "YES"

    100 REM INPUT "Shall DD halt or not? " ; A$
    110 PRINT "Shall DD halt or not? " ; A$
    200 IF A$ = "YES" GOTO 666
    300 P0 = P0 + 1
    400 IF P0 > 0 AND P1 > 0 GOTO 1000
    500 GOTO 10

    666 PRINT "OK!"
    667 P1 = P1 + 1
    700 PRINT "NON_HALT P0 = "; P0
    710 PRINT "HALT P1 = "; P1
    720 IF P0 > 0 AND P1 > 0 GOTO 1000
    730 PRINT "ALL PATHS FAILED TO BE HIT!"
    740 GOTO 10


    1000
    1010 PRINT "FIN... All paths hit."
    1020 PRINT "NON_HALT P0 = "; P0
    1030 PRINT "HALT P1 = "; P1
    ____________________________


    Or for a human response:

    ___________________________
    1 HOME
    5 PRINT "HHH"
    6 P0 = 0
    7 P1 = 0
    10 INPUT "Shall DD halt or not? " ; A$
    20 IF A$ = "YES" GOTO 666
    30 P0 = P0 + 1
    40 IF P0 > 0 AND P1 > 0 GOTO 1000
    50 GOTO 10

    666 PRINT "OK!"
    667 P1 = P1 + 1
    700 PRINT "NON_HALT P0 = "; P0
    710 PRINT "HALT P1 = "; P1
    720 IF P0 > 0 AND P1 > 0 GOTO 1000
    730 PRINT "ALL PATHS FAILED TO BE HIT!"
    740 GOTO 10


    1000
    1010 PRINT "FIN... All paths hit."
    1020 PRINT "NON_HALT P0 = "; P0
    1030 PRINT "HALT P1 = "; P1
    ___________________________

    Just for fun. :^)

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  • From wij@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 19:40:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 15:32 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 3:22 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 14:31 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 2:01 PM, wij wrote:


    If H(D) does return, what does your post mean:

        int D()
        {
           int Halt_Status = H(D);    // <---- Does this H(D) return?        if (Halt_Status)
              HERE: goto HERE;
           return Halt_Status;
        }

       *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
       D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
       own simulated "return" statement.


    Maybe you need to carefully study these words reading
    them over-and-over again and again until you can pay 100%
    complete attention to every tiny detail of everything that
    they specify.
    So, all are just 'joke' (polite word). You know what the HP proof is about,  but, you direct people's attention to something unsolvable (or difficult) or provide various 'proofs' for people to headache, or change subject, or change proof... various skills to manipulate.
    Maybe, you just like to chat, or, to create god-like feeling?
    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.
    These are what the halt decider must do, not proof.
    Otherwise, what do you think the H should do? print "abc" and say "hello"?.
    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?

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  • From olcott@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 06:31:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/4/2025 5:40 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 15:32 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 3:22 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 14:31 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 2:01 PM, wij wrote:


    If H(D) does return, what does your post mean:

        int D()
        {
           int Halt_Status = H(D);    // <---- Does this H(D) return? >>>        if (Halt_Status)
              HERE: goto HERE;
           return Halt_Status;
        }

       *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
       D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
       own simulated "return" statement.


    Maybe you need to carefully study these words reading
    them over-and-over again and again until you can pay 100%
    complete attention to every tiny detail of everything that
    they specify.

    So, all are just 'joke' (polite word). You know what the HP proof is about, but, you direct people's attention to something unsolvable (or difficult) or provide various 'proofs' for people to headache, or change subject, or change proof... various skills to manipulate.


    When D is simulated by H this D cannot possibly reach
    the contradictory code, it remains stuck in recursive
    emulation. I have been pointing this out for three
    years and not one person bothered to pay any attention.

    That four LLM systems understand every detail of my
    proof shows that my reviewers here have only been
    playing head games.

    Maybe, you just like to chat, or, to create god-like feeling?

    The function H is a simulating termination analyzer:
    (a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
         abort simulation and return 0.
    (b) Simulated input reaches its simulated
         "return" statement: return 1.

    These are what the halt decider must do, not proof.
    Otherwise, what do you think the H should do? print "abc" and say "hello"?.

    When given a function P, it literally simulates each
    step of executing P() to see whether that simulated
    execution ever reaches a return statement. Now let H
    simulate D. Based only on the outcome of that literal
    simulation (not on reasoning about what should happen),
    what result should H(D) produce?


    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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  • From dbush@[email protected] to comp.theory on Tue Nov 4 07:53:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/4/2025 7:31 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 5:40 AM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 15:32 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 3:22 PM, wij wrote:
    On Mon, 2025-11-03 at 14:31 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 2:01 PM, wij wrote:


    If H(D) does return, what does your post mean:

         int D()
         {
            int Halt_Status = H(D);    // <---- Does this H(D) return?
            if (Halt_Status)
               HERE: goto HERE;
            return Halt_Status;
         }

        *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
        D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
        own simulated "return" statement.


    Maybe you need to carefully study these words reading
    them over-and-over again and again until you can pay 100%
    complete attention to every tiny detail of everything that
    they specify.

    So, all are just 'joke' (polite word). You know what the HP proof is
    about,
    but, you direct people's attention to something unsolvable (or
    difficult) or
    provide various 'proofs' for people to headache, or change subject, or
    change
    proof... various skills to manipulate.


    When D is simulated by H this D cannot possibly reach
    the contradictory code, it remains stuck in recursive
    emulation.
    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear. "D" and "H" in the above sentence
    could refer to an algorithm, a C function, or a finite string, and its
    meaning differs depending which is chosen in each case.

    All references to "H" and "D" in the above sentence must be prefixed
    with exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string
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