A new alt is super-rez 'inertial' guidance
using light-loop tech. Set yer start coords EXACTLY and they're good
for a fair distance and time. I read that Poland and the Baltics were
looking into this once Russia started jamming GPS. Smallish cheapish
chips now.
I think they're used in some civvie drones already. A company came by
to demonstrate its drone - hovered perfectly still even in kinda
gusty winds. You could poke at it and it'd bounce back almost
instantly. That's not GPS,
its super-sensitive tri-axis accelerometers.
On Fri, 05 Jun 2026 00:13:24 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I refuse to use self-checkout. The last thing I want is to hear a
mechanical voice nattering at me that I didn't put the bag on the scale,
or put items into the bag at the exact time it wants me to,
etc. etc. ad nausaeum. I'd rather deal with real live people - it gives
them jobs and they're much more pleasant to deal with.
When the self checkout lanes went in the 'express' lanes were shutdown.
That means you get to wait behind someone with a cart that's wheels are on the verge of collapsing. If you're really lucky there won't be a long
sorting of food stamp eligible items from the rest, the EBT card will have enough to cover the eligible items, and the shopper won't have to cycle through more than three credit/debit cards to find one that isn't
declined.
Besides one of my personal failings is I'd rather deal with the mutts over
at animal services or the 'community' cats that show up at mealtime. The latter are friendly to me but are definitely their own cats.
I'm socialized enough to make small talk with a cashier but I'd rather
not.
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 22:45:45 -0400, c186282 wrote:
A new alt is super-rez 'inertial' guidance
using light-loop tech. Set yer start coords EXACTLY and they're good
for a fair distance and time. I read that Poland and the Baltics were
looking into this once Russia started jamming GPS. Smallish cheapish
chips now.
Full circle. One of the drivers for GPS is if you fire a ballistic missile from a submarine it helps to know exactly where you are.
I think they're used in some civvie drones already. A company came by
to demonstrate its drone - hovered perfectly still even in kinda
gusty winds. You could poke at it and it'd bounce back almost
instantly. That's not GPS,
its super-sensitive tri-axis accelerometers.
https://www.techgearlab.com/reviews/cool-gadgets/drones/dji-tello
It's so light but it can maintain position in a gentle breeze. No GPS. It uses a down facing camera. Neat idea and it came with a SDK to control it over BlueTooth. It was $99 when I bought it.
I've got a larger drone but it's strictly manual control like an old-time
RC plane.
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is my fav,
cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by "self"
and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get to watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say "THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is my fav,
cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by "self"
and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get to watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say "THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle anymore.
On 6/4/26 23:40, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 22:18:33 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Well, WalMart isn't THAT bad - good selection of basic stuff for
affordable prices. But the SHOPPING ENVIRONMENT could be improved.
Gimme HUMAN checkers !!!
My infrequent trips to Walmart are a lesson in why 'white pride' isn't
a viable concept.
Umm ... a proportional number of customers I've seen are not "white"
......
Anyway, as said, basic "stuff" at basic prices. If you are not
overflowing with cash, might not be your last possible stop. CAN be a
tad inconvenient to get around the 400-lb Billy-Bobs/Barbs sometimes
though ....
Hmm ... IS there some use for dead batteries ? Most just throw 'em in
the trash, but they ARE full of chems and metal salts and such ....
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 00:29:52 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 6/4/26 23:40, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 22:18:33 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Well, WalMart isn't THAT bad - good selection of basic stuff for
affordable prices. But the SHOPPING ENVIRONMENT could be improved. >>>> Gimme HUMAN checkers !!!
My infrequent trips to Walmart are a lesson in why 'white pride' isn't
a viable concept.
Umm ... a proportional number of customers I've seen are not "white"
......
When blacks make up 0.7% of the population in the state you don't see many although it has become more 'diverse' in the last 35 years. Asians beat
them at 1.0%. Indians are the largest minority but many of them don't
stray far from the ez.
Anyway, as said, basic "stuff" at basic prices. If you are not
overflowing with cash, might not be your last possible stop. CAN be a
tad inconvenient to get around the 400-lb Billy-Bobs/Barbs sometimes
though ....
That's what I had in mind. The area is big on outdoor recreation but if you're into spudbutts Walmart is the place to be. I'll admit that without Walmart and it's cheap Chinese stuff many Americans would be well and
truly screwed.
I used to wear Herman Survivor boots. Like most of the shoe shops in New Hampshire and Maine they didn't survive offshoring. Walmart bought the
brand name and enshitified it. Yeah, they sold for $50 but were worth
less.
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 00:25:08 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hmm ... IS there some use for dead batteries ? Most just throw 'em in
the trash, but they ARE full of chems and metal salts and such ....
When I was a kid I salvaged the carbon core out of D cells. They were good for making a arc lights. Didn't even get electrocuted. The big ones were
even better but I can't remember what they were called. iirc they had two screw terminals.
No. It means burying it in a trench where Nature cannot get at it.
Sheesh.
Not every country is as technologically stone age as the USA
Sheesh ... have you looked into all the PROPERTY RIGHTS
and RIGHT-OF-WAY rules in the USA ? You can't just start
digging a trench, you'd upset somebody's lawyers and/or
destroy something expensive already down there yet poorly
documented.
On 6/5/26 03:20, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 00:25:08 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hmm ... IS there some use for dead batteries ? Most just throwWhen I was a kid I salvaged the carbon core out of D cells. They were
'em in
the trash, but they ARE full of chems and metal salts and such .... >>
good
for making a arc lights. Didn't even get electrocuted. The big ones were
even better but I can't remember what they were called. iirc they had two
screw terminals.
Heh heh - did the SAME thing !!! :-)
You can get carbon rods at a welding supply store.
There USED to be some for arc-lamp movie projectors
but I doubt any of those exist anymore. An old friend
used to work at a creaky Drive-In theater.
I think I have a sample as memsake.
(dictionary says "memsake" is bad spelling. What is the correct one?)
Used to buy work/motorcycle boots at an 'elite' store. Then suddenly
saw them elsewhere for less. Thing is, reading the little labels,
they'd changed where they MADE them to a cheaper locale. Could not
wear the things ... aggressive out-of-place stitching would put
blisters on yer feet.
On Fri, 05 Jun 2026 00:13:24 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I refuse to use self-checkout. The last thing I want is to hear a
mechanical voice nattering at me that I didn't put the bag on the scale,
or put items into the bag at the exact time it wants me to,
etc. etc. ad nausaeum. I'd rather deal with real live people - it gives
them jobs and they're much more pleasant to deal with.
When the self checkout lanes went in the 'express' lanes were shutdown.
That means you get to wait behind someone with a cart that's wheels are
on the verge of collapsing. If you're really lucky there won't be a long sorting of food stamp eligible items from the rest, the EBT card will have enough to cover the eligible items, and the shopper won't have to cycle through more than three credit/debit cards to find one that isn't
declined.
On 2026-06-05 10:15, c186282 wrote:
You can get carbon rods at a welding supply store.
There USED to be some for arc-lamp movie projectors
but I doubt any of those exist anymore. An old friend
used to work at a creaky Drive-In theater.
I worked with those in the 80's, in a university cine-club. A nucleus of carbon and minerals in layers, then an outside layer of copper. About 65 Amps. Blinding white light!
I think I have a sample as memsake.
(dictionary says "memsake" is bad spelling. What is the correct one?)
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half
of that is my fav, cashew nuts). It's always
"10 items or less". Walk right by "self" and
go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say
"Hi !", get to watch each item individually
scanned by the employee. Get to say "THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Alas by many reports, Gen-Z/A2 are TERRIFIED to
actually interact with strange humans, even over
a phone line. Dunno WHAT'S behind that but it's
pretty damned bad.
A few weeks back a pleasant little bagger gal
commented on the Archeology mag I bought - she
was pretty sharp and the short exchange made
me feel good. Gen-Z might have freaked at
her 'rude judgemental intrusion' into their
precious insular 'space'.
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 00:25:08 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hmm ... IS there some use for dead batteries ? Most just throw 'em in
the trash, but they ARE full of chems and metal salts and such ....
When I was a kid I salvaged the carbon core out of D cells. They were good for making a arc lights. Didn't even get electrocuted. The big ones were even better but I can't remember what they were called. iirc they had two screw terminals.
On 2026-06-05, Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 2026-06-05 10:15, c186282 wrote:
You can get carbon rods at a welding supply store.
There USED to be some for arc-lamp movie projectors
but I doubt any of those exist anymore. An old friend
used to work at a creaky Drive-In theater.
I worked with those in the 80's, in a university cine-club. A nucleus of
carbon and minerals in layers, then an outside layer of copper. About 65
Amps. Blinding white light!
I think I have a sample as memsake.
(dictionary says "memsake" is bad spelling. What is the correct one?)
Around here the equivalent word is "keepsake".
No. 6 cells. My early electrical experiments started when I stole the
pair that powered our doorbell. I might still have one of those carbon
rods around somewhere.
On 2026-06-05 10:15, c186282 wrote:
On 6/5/26 03:20, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 00:25:08 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hmm ... IS there some use for dead batteries ? Most just throw >>>> 'em inWhen I was a kid I salvaged the carbon core out of D cells. They were
the trash, but they ARE full of chems and metal salts and such .... >>>
good
for making a arc lights. Didn't even get electrocuted. The big ones were >>> even better but I can't remember what they were called. iirc they had
two
screw terminals.
Heh heh - did the SAME thing !!! :-)
You can get carbon rods at a welding supply store.
There USED to be some for arc-lamp movie projectors
but I doubt any of those exist anymore. An old friend
used to work at a creaky Drive-In theater.
I worked with those in the 80's, in a university cine-club. A nucleus of carbon and minerals in layers, then an outside layer of copper. About 65 Amps. Blinding white light!
I think I have a sample as memsake.
(dictionary says "memsake" is bad spelling. What is the correct one?)
On 04/06/2026 17:08, c186282 wrote:
No. It means burying it in a trench where Nature cannot get at it.
Sheesh.
Not every country is as technologically stone age as the USA
Sheesh ... have you looked into all the PROPERTY RIGHTS
and RIGHT-OF-WAY rules in the USA ? You can't just start
digging a trench, you'd upset somebody's lawyers and/or
destroy something expensive already down there yet poorly
documented.
Which confirms the point
On 5 Jun 2026 03:12:31 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
Ahhhh, WinCo Foods. I was a regular from the mid-1980s. Then, early on
in the Wuhan scamdemic they suddenly started treating customers like
inmates in a high-security prison. I get my groceries elsewhere, now.
Prices might be higher, but I save at least that much in the gasoline it
had been costing me to get to WinCo.
I don't go there that often, mostly in search of pork hocks, chicken gizzards, or other specialty meats the other markets don't carry. Even finding liver is a chore.
WinCo is on the south side of a busy street, Rosauers is directly across
on the north side. I come in from the west and making a left across one
lane and then leaving going west is much easier. Winco is easier to turn into and a bear to escape. Besides, Rosauers has a machine to grind your
own almond butter and WinCo only has one for peanuts.
Oh, yes, and in the People's Republic of Oregon, 1-mil plastic (and now
3-mil, IIUC) are outlawed. I bring my own paper bags that I had custom
printed.
Ah, the land of 'don't touch that gas pump'. I did notice if you're on a bike they ignore that. Last time I was in the state the eastern counties where there aren't enough people to provide pump attendants the law didn't apply.
The penny thing is interesting. In western Oregon, some retailers
promptly stopped touching pennies because their banks refused to supply
pennies to the retailers. However, just a couple of months ago an
employee (appeared to be a manager) at a retailer in Baker City in
eastern Oregon said there was no penny shortage. My theory is
local/regional banks are artificially making the penny shortage more
severe than it would naturally be.
Albertson's seem to have a magical supply of pennies as do some other businesses. Rosauer's is the only one that went to credit cards only for self checkout. I go through the manned lines and I think you get pennies
in change. I smell an ulterior motive although why they'd rather pay the swipe fees instead of maintaining the machines escapes me.
Then there is Yoke's. I haven't been through a manned checkout in a while but they used to give out $2 bills in change. That had to be a special request to the bank. They're pristine so I use them for bookmarks.
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 04:11:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Used to buy work/motorcycle boots at an 'elite' store. Then suddenly
saw them elsewhere for less. Thing is, reading the little labels,
they'd changed where they MADE them to a cheaper locale. Could not
wear the things ... aggressive out-of-place stitching would put
blisters on yer feet.
A independent shoe store in town carried Red Wings and I liked them. The
ones they carried were made in the USA, not 'assembled from imported components' but they dropped the line. They were work boots so the soles weren't as aggressive as hiking boots but they worked.
I switched to Danners. Some of them are still made in the US but they are hard to find. The US Mountain Light is $470, the imported Mountain 600 is $230. I'm not that much of a purist and the imports are well made and comfortable. I'm on my second pair. I use the first pair for working
around the house but the soles are so worn they started getting slippery
on the trail.
I've tried other brands over the years. They weren't cheap but a couple of times I've given them away. One pair was so painful I took them off and walked down the trail barefoot.
On 2026-06-05, c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half
of that is my fav, cashew nuts). It's always
"10 items or less". Walk right by "self" and
go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say
"Hi !", get to watch each item individually
scanned by the employee. Get to say "THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
+1
Alas by many reports, Gen-Z/A2 are TERRIFIED to
actually interact with strange humans, even over
a phone line. Dunno WHAT'S behind that but it's
pretty damned bad.
Weird.
A few weeks back a pleasant little bagger gal
commented on the Archeology mag I bought - she
was pretty sharp and the short exchange made
me feel good. Gen-Z might have freaked at
her 'rude judgemental intrusion' into their
precious insular 'space'.
When we're at the pub, my wife often strikes up a
conversation with the waitress while we're paying
our bill. She's good at getting someone's life
history out of them. Many of these people are
there to pay the bills while going to school -
and taking interesting and useful courses,
not just fluff. It's reassuring to see that
at least some people are trying to make something
of their lives.
On 2026-06-05, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 00:25:08 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hmm ... IS there some use for dead batteries ? Most just throw 'em in >>> the trash, but they ARE full of chems and metal salts and such ....
Around here recycling depots take them. I wouldn't want to
use them as weights or whatever - lots of nasty chemicals start
oozing out...
When I was a kid I salvaged the carbon core out of D cells. They were good >> for making a arc lights. Didn't even get electrocuted. The big ones were
even better but I can't remember what they were called. iirc they had two
screw terminals.
No. 6 cells. My early electrical experiments started when I stole
the pair that powered our doorbell. I might still have one of
those carbon rods around somewhere.
DO try BATES boots. Price is fair and performance is very good.
Amazon and others carry them. These are what I switched to.
Thankfully, for maybe year or so now, maybe two years, Oregon
_F_I_N_A_L_L_Y_ allows self-serve gasoline everywhere.
On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 00:10:54 -0400, c186282 wrote:
DO try BATES boots. Price is fair and performance is very good.
Amazon and others carry them. These are what I switched to.
They do get good reviews.
As said, going underground sure SOUNDS simple ... but now there's
likely to be a lot of Other People's Stuff already down there. Copper
wiring can *usually* be detected (there are companies that do this,
paint orange lines all over the grass) but water and sewer and fiber
won't necessarily show up. GOOD high-rez ground-penetrating radar
units still don't seem cheap enough.
Checkers/waiters/etc are NOT alien drones. SOME are idiots but MOST
are "people". Some are BRIGHT people. They're not evil or devils.
On 6 Jun 2026 03:10:21 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
Thankfully, for maybe year or so now, maybe two years, Oregon
_F_I_N_A_L_L_Y_ allows self-serve gasoline everywhere.
Amazing! It's been a minute or two since I've been in Oregon. Probably a couple of years pre-covid. I went across 20, down to Newport, and up the coast. I lucked out and the weather was great until I got to Port Angeles
and the skies opened up. It was monsoon until I got over Stevens Pass.
That was more restful than the trip where I went from Grants Pass to Gold Beach the hard way. At least I got to hike Mt. Bolivar. A few years later some guy died in that area when his GPS showed a 'shortcut'. The car got stuck in snow and he went for help. The wife and kids stayed with the car
and survived. There is a lot of road around the Wild Rogue Wilderness, all
of it pretty bad.
"Memsake" - sounds Japanese
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 22:31:31 -0400, c186282 wrote:
As said, going underground sure SOUNDS simple ... but now there's
likely to be a lot of Other People's Stuff already down there. Copper
wiring can *usually* be detected (there are companies that do this,
paint orange lines all over the grass) but water and sewer and fiber
won't necessarily show up. GOOD high-rez ground-penetrating radar
units still don't seem cheap enough.
I worked one summer for a contractor. 'Call before you dig'. His method
was to have the backhoe operator keep digging until he dug up copper and
then call. The job didn't last long but I learned a lot about sleazy new house construction. The buyers saw the fireplace and hardwood floors and fell in love. They didn't notice the leach field was in a swamp and the foundation 'waterproofing' was a veneer of waterproofing heavily cut with diesel. They found out about that when they noticed the in ground swimming pool that was supposed to be the basement.
On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 00:36:43 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Checkers/waiters/etc are NOT alien drones. SOME are idiots but MOST
are "people". Some are BRIGHT people. They're not evil or devils.
The pattern is kids come to UM, fall in love with the area, and stay after they graduate. We may have the most well educated baristas, waiters, and
shoe clerks in the world.
On 2026-06-05, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On 5 Jun 2026 03:12:31 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
Ah, the land of 'don't touch that gas pump'. I did notice if you're on a
bike they ignore that. Last time I was in the state the eastern counties
where there aren't enough people to provide pump attendants the law didn't >> apply.
Thankfully, for maybe year or so now, maybe two years, Oregon
_F_I_N_A_L_L_Y_ allows self-serve gasoline everywhere. Stations
are required to keep "service" on at least 50% of the pumps, and
they can't give a discount for self-serve. My wife has the pump
jockey do the job (and often fail to put the cap back on
properly, sometimes resulting in gasoline spilling out of the
fill neck while driving--not good). I operate the pump myself.
On 6/5/26 06:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-05 10:15, c186282 wrote:
On 6/5/26 03:20, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 00:25:08 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hmm ... IS there some use for dead batteries ? Most just throw >>>>> 'em in
the trash, but they ARE full of chems and metal salts and
such ....
When I was a kid I salvaged the carbon core out of D cells. They
were good
for making a arc lights. Didn't even get electrocuted. The big ones
were
even better but I can't remember what they were called. iirc they
had two
screw terminals.
Heh heh - did the SAME thing !!! :-)
You can get carbon rods at a welding supply store.
There USED to be some for arc-lamp movie projectors
but I doubt any of those exist anymore. An old friend
used to work at a creaky Drive-In theater.
I worked with those in the 80's, in a university cine-club. A nucleus
of carbon and minerals in layers, then an outside layer of copper.
About 65 Amps. Blinding white light!
I think I have a sample as memsake.
(dictionary says "memsake" is bad spelling. What is the correct one?)
"Memsake" - sounds Japanese :-)
Anyway, exactly the item. The thin copper kept oxygen
from getting to anything but the working ends. It'd
slowly vaporize once the REALLY hot bit progressed
along.
It was a dirty projection booth.
But few were really there to watch the movie.
Ah :
https://www.amazon.com/PATIKIL-6mmx305mm-Gouging-Graphite-Electrode/dp/ B0CZQZSY7H/ref=sr_1_6?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.JFxjn5HyTd- WqpfBkk9aE5geO5ZyIwsklySCEhYt97bk2CyL5c8RULOSHI02VqgxMyC9uzGEyi9ieMm-3cipxM8iCXTbzGfP7Ret14GG8P4v4Skl8F6Nxfr-4ilEvx9C9J3djfmYN9j2PMeaU9tbYEnnuG3PBbBfIiIPOswQFZs0W4Sxs9P6WecX7JcTWyLyalmSTozbZkfU_TI26LxlYZBuJSsT_d7N4HCOEBQoxMATjZ3635cWVT7QzHhuXiMsDaQuw3TxGpBf7Qz8xUNJexASOLd-bKre2LxHiZ_s4ug.bAr4bg-jVSEc2ZuUjEAKDo_G4iy_Bv2OI7Ks59V28gk&dib_tag=se&keywords=welding+carbon+rod&qid=1780710711&sr=8-6
Also another kind with a more square profile.
My Dad briefly had a job as a projectionist in the
early 30s - arc lamps and often NITRATE film. There's
a reason those old projection booths were built like
a pill-box.
On Fri, 05 Jun 2026 19:21:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
No. 6 cells. My early electrical experiments started when I stole the
pair that powered our doorbell. I might still have one of those carbon
rods around somewhere.
That's it, thanks. I could picture it but not put a name to it. I'm
pushing the boundaries of memory but I think they were EverReadys with the cat logo.
I do miss retail stores - you could ACTUALLY try on the merch - see
if it ACTUALLY fits. Ah for the days of the Big Malls .............
Old enough to remember the first "Big Mall" in the area (like 50
miles away). FANTASTIC. A whole cultural experience unto itself. I
see why so many movies involved Mall Brats.
So, 'wireless' is the modern choice - even when it sucks for the
customers. Hey, just TELL 'em it's So Great ....
Never been to Oregon ... and, now-WOKE, see NO reason to ever go
there. Seems like somebody is putting LSD in the water supply up the
entire west coast.
Gimme a Stetson and some cowboy boots and I could be happy until the
end.
Anyway, from reading, really seems like a LOT of Gen-Z/A2 act like
they're kinda far up "the spectrum" when it comes to random social
interaction.
They're the kind who will TEXT the Uber driver - "over by the yellow
sign" rather than just SAY "over by the yellow sign".
Checkers/waiters/etc are NOT alien drones. SOME
are idiots but MOST are "people". Some are BRIGHT
people. They're not evil or devils.
Odd how the rise of "social networks" resulted in
the kiddies becoming very UN-social. Some new
thinking paradigm emerged.
Either that or Mommy WAS smoking enough crack to
warp their little brains ......
On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 01:52:13 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Never been to Oregon ... and, now-WOKE, see NO reason to ever go
there. Seems like somebody is putting LSD in the water supply up the
entire west coast.
Gimme a Stetson and some cowboy boots and I could be happy until the
end.
You would fit in fine in eastern Oregon. There's a semi-serious movement
to secede from Oregon and join Nevada or Utah.
On 2026-06-06 05:10, Robert Riches wrote:
On 2026-06-05, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On 5 Jun 2026 03:12:31 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
Ah, the land of 'don't touch that gas pump'. I did notice if you're on a >>> bike they ignore that. Last time I was in the state the eastern counties >>> where there aren't enough people to provide pump attendants the law didn't >>> apply.
Thankfully, for maybe year or so now, maybe two years, Oregon
_F_I_N_A_L_L_Y_ allows self-serve gasoline everywhere. Stations
are required to keep "service" on at least 50% of the pumps, and
they can't give a discount for self-serve. My wife has the pump
jockey do the job (and often fail to put the cap back on
properly, sometimes resulting in gasoline spilling out of the
fill neck while driving--not good). I operate the pump myself.
Filling the tank so much that gasoline spills when moving, if the cap is loose, means the tank has been filled way too much over the limit. This
is bad for a modern car and can cause an expensive breakdown.
On 2026-06-06 05:10, Robert Riches wrote:
On 2026-06-05, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On 5 Jun 2026 03:12:31 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
Ah, the land of 'don't touch that gas pump'. I did notice if you're on a >>> bike they ignore that. Last time I was in the state the eastern counties >>> where there aren't enough people to provide pump attendants the law
didn't
apply.
Thankfully, for maybe year or so now, maybe two years, Oregon
_F_I_N_A_L_L_Y_ allows self-serve gasoline everywhere. Stations
are required to keep "service" on at least 50% of the pumps, and
they can't give a discount for self-serve. My wife has the pump
jockey do the job (and often fail to put the cap back on
properly, sometimes resulting in gasoline spilling out of the
fill neck while driving--not good). I operate the pump myself.
Filling the tank so much that gasoline spills when moving, if the cap is loose, means the tank has been filled way too much over the limit. This
is bad for a modern car and can cause an expensive breakdown.
{Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc
On 2026-06-06 04:15, c186282 wrote:
On 6/5/26 06:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-05 10:15, c186282 wrote:
On 6/5/26 03:20, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 00:25:08 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hmm ... IS there some use for dead batteries ? Most just throw >>>>>> 'em in
the trash, but they ARE full of chems and metal salts and
such ....
When I was a kid I salvaged the carbon core out of D cells. They
were good
for making a arc lights. Didn't even get electrocuted. The big ones >>>>> were
even better but I can't remember what they were called. iirc they
had two
screw terminals.
Heh heh - did the SAME thing !!! :-)
You can get carbon rods at a welding supply store.
There USED to be some for arc-lamp movie projectors
but I doubt any of those exist anymore. An old friend
used to work at a creaky Drive-In theater.
I worked with those in the 80's, in a university cine-club. A nucleus
of carbon and minerals in layers, then an outside layer of copper.
About 65 Amps. Blinding white light!
I think I have a sample as memsake.
(dictionary says "memsake" is bad spelling. What is the correct one?)
"Memsake" - sounds Japanese :-)
Anyway, exactly the item. The thin copper kept oxygen
from getting to anything but the working ends. It'd
slowly vaporize once the REALLY hot bit progressed
along.
It was a dirty projection booth.
We had an exhaust tube going up the roof.
But few were really there to watch the movie.
Ah :
https://www.amazon.com/PATIKIL-6mmx305mm-Gouging-Graphite-Electrode/
dp/ B0CZQZSY7H/ref=sr_1_6?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.JFxjn5HyTd-
WqpfBkk9aE5geO5ZyIwsklySCEhYt97bk2CyL5c8RULOSHI02VqgxMyC9uzGEyi9ieMm-3cipxM8iCXTbzGfP7Ret14GG8P4v4Skl8F6Nxfr-4ilEvx9C9J3djfmYN9j2PMeaU9tbYEnnuG3PBbBfIiIPOswQFZs0W4Sxs9P6WecX7JcTWyLyalmSTozbZkfU_TI26LxlYZBuJSsT_d7N4HCOEBQoxMATjZ3635cWVT7QzHhuXiMsDaQuw3TxGpBf7Qz8xUNJexASOLd-bKre2LxHiZ_s4ug.bAr4bg-jVSEc2ZuUjEAKDo_G4iy_Bv2OI7Ks59V28gk&dib_tag=se&keywords=welding+carbon+rod&qid=1780710711&sr=8-6
Amazing! They still sell them.
Ah, trick. With Amazon links, you can delete everyhing after the /dp/ number.
https://www.amazon.com/PATIKIL-6mmx305mm-Gouging-Graphite-Electrode/dp/ B0CZQZSY7H
Then, you can also remove the name:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/ B0CZQZSY7H
The rest, is tracking information about you.
Also another kind with a more square profile.
My Dad briefly had a job as a projectionist in the
early 30s - arc lamps and often NITRATE film. There's
a reason those old projection booths were built like
a pill-box.
Those could catch instant fire.
On Sat, 6 Jun 2026 01:56:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
So, 'wireless' is the modern choice - even when it sucks for the
customers. Hey, just TELL 'em it's So Great ....
I can't complain about Verizon's wireless. It works for me. My phone is
Mint so I get ads from Mint about their 5G plans that are cheaper than Verizon. The website says it's not available where I am. It's the T-
Mobile network. The phone is usually 4G although there are a few dead
spots indoors.
I keep looking at StarLink. Maybe I'll wait until Musk gets a million LEOs up. It was more a proof of concept than anything useful but I remember
being out in the backyard waiting to see Echo 1 transit the sky. I don't think you can see any of the LEOs with the naked eye anymore. Just as well
as it would probably look like a cloud of bluebottle flies orbiting a road killed deer on a hot august day.
On 6/4/26 23:12, Robert Riches wrote:
On 2026-06-05, Charlie Gibbs <[email protected]d> wrote:
I refuse to use self-checkout. The last thing I want is to hear a
mechanical voice nattering at me that I didn't put the bag on the
scale, or put items into the bag at the exact time it wants me to,
etc. etc. ad nausaeum. I'd rather deal with real live people -
it gives them jobs and they're much more pleasant to deal with.
Self-checkout at Home Despot was the worst. When buying a plastic
packet of a half dozen #8 flat washers, the scale wouldn't register
that I had dropped the merchandise in the bag. My preferred
solution to that is to press on the scale with my hand when dropping
smaller items in the bag.
...
The weird thing, 'self' ALWAYS has a human OVERSEEING
the proceedings. Why not just give 'em a check-out
terminal and do it in the usual fashion ???
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/26 23:12, Robert Riches wrote:
On 2026-06-05, Charlie Gibbs <[email protected]d> wrote:
I refuse to use self-checkout. The last thing I want is to hear a
mechanical voice nattering at me that I didn't put the bag on the
scale, or put items into the bag at the exact time it wants me to,
etc. etc. ad nausaeum. I'd rather deal with real live people -
it gives them jobs and they're much more pleasant to deal with.
Self-checkout at Home Despot was the worst. When buying a plastic
packet of a half dozen #8 flat washers, the scale wouldn't register
that I had dropped the merchandise in the bag. My preferred
solution to that is to press on the scale with my hand when dropping
smaller items in the bag.
...
The weird thing, 'self' ALWAYS has a human OVERSEEING
the proceedings. Why not just give 'em a check-out
terminal and do it in the usual fashion ???
If you pay attention, that human is overseeing the proceedings at four
or six terminals.
But the human is not receiving the pay of six checkout clerks, they get
the pay of only a single one.
So four, or six, customers are checking out in parallel, while the
overseer is being paid 1x the salary of a checkout clerk.
From the MBA's running the show perspective, they get six checkout
lanes operating for only one hourly wage rather than six hourly wages,
for a 5x cost reduction in checkout clerk pay.
If you pay attention, that human is overseeing the proceedings at four
or six terminals.
But the human is not receiving the pay of six checkout clerks, they get
the pay of only a single one.
So four, or six, customers are checking out in parallel, while the
overseer is being paid 1x the salary of a checkout clerk.
From the MBA's running the show perspective, they get six checkout lanes operating for only one hourly wage rather than six hourly wages, for a
5x cost reduction in checkout clerk pay.
StarLink has good potential as a BACKUP, Just In Case.
Doesn't allow lots of bytes, but you could still do yer online
banking and such.
But I've watched MANY pump, then tap-tap-tap,
until the fuel is kinda literally dripping out of the fill tube.
THINK they're gaining something
MOSTLY gaining a large dribble down the street for five+ miles .....
I downloaded the app to the phone last night. You do a 360 degree scan of
the sky to find a suitable location. I don't know if what shows up as you scan is the real satellites but if it is there are a hell of a lot of
them.
On 6/6/26 06:01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Ah, trick. With Amazon links, you can delete everyhing after the /dp/
number.
https://www.amazon.com/PATIKIL-6mmx305mm-Gouging-Graphite-Electrode/dp/
B0CZQZSY7H
Then, you can also remove the name:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/ B0CZQZSY7H
The rest, is tracking information about you.
True.
But so much editing is More Work than it's
usually worth.
On 2026-06-07 15:25, Rich wrote:
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/26 23:12, Robert Riches wrote:
On 2026-06-05, Charlie Gibbs <[email protected]d> wrote:
I refuse to use self-checkout. The last thing I want is to hear a
mechanical voice nattering at me that I didn't put the bag on the
scale, or put items into the bag at the exact time it wants me to,
etc. etc. ad nausaeum. I'd rather deal with real live people -
it gives them jobs and they're much more pleasant to deal with.
Self-checkout at Home Despot was the worst. When buying a plastic
packet of a half dozen #8 flat washers, the scale wouldn't register
that I had dropped the merchandise in the bag. My preferred
solution to that is to press on the scale with my hand when dropping
smaller items in the bag.
...
The weird thing, 'self' ALWAYS has a human OVERSEEING
the proceedings. Why not just give 'em a check-out
terminal and do it in the usual fashion ???
If you pay attention, that human is overseeing the proceedings at four
or six terminals.
But the human is not receiving the pay of six checkout clerks, they get
the pay of only a single one.
So four, or six, customers are checking out in parallel, while the
overseer is being paid 1x the salary of a checkout clerk.
From the MBA's running the show perspective, they get six checkout
lanes operating for only one hourly wage rather than six hourly wages,
for a 5x cost reduction in checkout clerk pay.
At a lower speed, so not a 5x cost reduction.
On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 13:25:52 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
If you pay attention, that human is overseeing the proceedings at
four or six terminals.
But the human is not receiving the pay of six checkout clerks, they
get the pay of only a single one.
So four, or six, customers are checking out in parallel, while the
overseer is being paid 1x the salary of a checkout clerk.
From the MBA's running the show perspective, they get six checkout
lanes operating for only one hourly wage rather than six hourly
wages, for a 5x cost reduction in checkout clerk pay.
I have no idea about the pay scale but at least in one case I don't
think the human could operate as a checkout clerk. I think the store
had a policy of hiring the challenged as baggers and making sure
nobody is sneaking steaks out is within their abilities.
I do not mean that negatively. Providing work for those who can
function somewhat independently is a benefit and a step up from
sheltered workshops. Speaking from experience it isn't all roses for
the employer. It can be like herding needy cats.
This is why Vlad/Xi/Elon/Mark/Tim see to it that such editing is More
Work. And your dossier continues to grow...
On 6/6/26 05:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-06 05:10, Robert Riches wrote:
On 2026-06-05, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On 5 Jun 2026 03:12:31 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
Ah, the land of 'don't touch that gas pump'. I did notice if you're on a >>>> bike they ignore that. Last time I was in the state the eastern counties >>>> where there aren't enough people to provide pump attendants the law
didn't
apply.
Thankfully, for maybe year or so now, maybe two years, Oregon
_F_I_N_A_L_L_Y_ allows self-serve gasoline everywhere. Stations
are required to keep "service" on at least 50% of the pumps, and
they can't give a discount for self-serve. My wife has the pump
jockey do the job (and often fail to put the cap back on
properly, sometimes resulting in gasoline spilling out of the
fill neck while driving--not good). I operate the pump myself.
Filling the tank so much that gasoline spills when moving, if the cap is
loose, means the tank has been filled way too much over the limit. This
is bad for a modern car and can cause an expensive breakdown.
True !
But I've watched MANY pump, then tap-tap-tap,
until the fuel is kinda literally dripping out
of the fill tube. THINK they're gaining something :-)
MOSTLY gaining a large dribble down the street for
five+ miles .....
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is my fav,
cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by "self"
and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get to watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say "THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle anymore.
https://satellitemap.space/constellation/starlink
On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap inChrist on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes
the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east
coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant.
overhead without a steel support core.
NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
On Sun, 07 Jun 2026 20:40:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
This morning I was on a site that wanted my phone number and birth date
for ID. I was having a senior moment and couldn't remember the landline number. There are sites like whitepages.com that supposedly function like
the old white pages. It went off on a long search, prepared a report with everything I ever wanted to know about myself for a small sum, $11 iirc.
No simple phone number. I tried a couple of others and got the same sort
of bullshit. Finally one showed some teaser info with all but the last 4 digits obscured. That's what I needed so thank you and FAFO.
I never did find a site that just does a simple landline phone number
lookup. I was going to try dialing 411 but I don't know if that's even a thing anymore. 411.com is another useless site.
On Sun, 7 Jun 2026 05:40:39 -0400, c186282 wrote:
StarLink has good potential as a BACKUP, Just In Case.
Doesn't allow lots of bytes, but you could still do yer online
banking and such.
I'm going to give it a try. They claim 100 Mbps, no data cap, and no
charge for the hardware for $55 / month for residential. There's a 30 day trial period too. Installation is DIY, mostly putting the receiver
someplace and running an ethernet cable to the router. It's power over ethernet so no other messing around. It even has some scheme to
automatically heat the receiver when it snows.
I downloaded the app to the phone last night. You do a 360 degree scan of
the sky to find a suitable location. I don't know if what shows up as you scan is the real satellites but if it is there are a hell of a lot of
them.
https://www.therealyellowpages.com
You can still get the Yellow Pages in print everywhere,
but sadly, in
some places the telco, along with just about everything else, has gotten away with not funding the White Pages anymore so you may or may not be
able to get a free print copy.
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap inChrist on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes
the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east
coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant.
overhead without a steel support core.
NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
Bzzt... No, wrong again.
There's always a steel cable somewhere, and
has always been one for a very long time. Either it is external, and
the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside
the PVC clad wire as the central core. But there is a steel cable
somewhere. Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of
self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much
of any tension in the cable at all. Physics dictates the steel cable
be present.
On 6/7/2026 8:44 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2026 20:40:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
This morning I was on a site that wanted my phone number and birth date
for ID. I was having a senior moment and couldn't remember the landline
number. There are sites like whitepages.com that supposedly function like
the old white pages. It went off on a long search, prepared a report with
everything I ever wanted to know about myself for a small sum, $11 iirc.
No simple phone number. I tried a couple of others and got the same sort
of bullshit. Finally one showed some teaser info with all but the last 4
digits obscured. That's what I needed so thank you and FAFO.
I never did find a site that just does a simple landline phone number
lookup. I was going to try dialing 411 but I don't know if that's even a
thing anymore. 411.com is another useless site.
That site has existed for a long time, it is https:// www.therealyellowpages.com
If you look up a city, you can download PDFs of the Yellow Pages and
White Pages *exactly* as the print edition would appear, along with
other special sections like the Blue/Green pages. I have done that many times. You can also do a simple search but I prefer to just browse the actual PDF like I would the book. No Internet access required and it's easier to do CTRL+F in the PDF then deal with the website.
I did it again just last week, actually. A household filed comments in
the wrong FCC docket - it was intended for one of the ongoing dockets
open about AT&T's California discontinuance applications, but was filed
in some other unrelated docket. Luckily, the comments had a first and
last name and city. I pulled the correct White Pages as a PDF from therealyellowpages.com, found their listing, called them, left them a message on their answering machine letting them know, and the next day,
the comments were filed in the correct docket.
You can still get the Yellow Pages in print everywhere, but sadly, in
some places the telco, along with just about everything else, has gotten away with not funding the White Pages anymore so you may or may not be
able to get a free print copy. Problematic for folks without Internet
access - the telco hasn't decided to offer free directory assistance as
a result of this change, after all! But you can call (877) 243-8339 M-F 8-4:45pm Eastern to get free copies of whatever is available for your area.
The physical books have gotten depressingly thin now. I could probably
rip one in half, but I'm not going to, might as well save them for a
museum some day, since they could be online only here in the next
publishing cycle.
On 6/7/2026 8:44 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2026 20:40:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
This morning I was on a site that wanted my phone number and birth date
for ID. I was having a senior moment and couldn't remember the landline
number. There are sites like whitepages.com that supposedly function like
the old white pages. It went off on a long search, prepared a report with
everything I ever wanted to know about myself for a small sum, $11 iirc.
No simple phone number. I tried a couple of others and got the same sort
of bullshit. Finally one showed some teaser info with all but the last 4
digits obscured. That's what I needed so thank you and FAFO.
I never did find a site that just does a simple landline phone number
lookup. I was going to try dialing 411 but I don't know if that's even a
thing anymore. 411.com is another useless site.
That site has existed for a long time, it is https:// www.therealyellowpages.com
If you look up a city, you can download PDFs of the Yellow Pages and
White Pages *exactly* as the print edition would appear, along with
other special sections like the Blue/Green pages. I have done that many times. You can also do a simple search but I prefer to just browse the actual PDF like I would the book. No Internet access required and it's easier to do CTRL+F in the PDF then deal with the website.
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is my fav,
cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by "self"
and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get to watch >>> each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say "THANKS !" >>> and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle anymore.
You know, now that you mention it, my local grocery no longer has a "N
or less items" line as well.
I hadn't noticed the omission yet, but it is no longer there.
On 2026-06-08 05:06, InterLinked wrote:
That site has existed for a long time, it is https://
www.therealyellowpages.com
If you look up a city, you can download PDFs of the Yellow Pages and
White Pages *exactly* as the print edition would appear, along with
other special sections like the Blue/Green pages. I have done that
many times. You can also do a simple search but I prefer to just
browse the actual PDF like I would the book. No Internet access
required and it's easier to do CTRL+F in the PDF then deal with the
website.
Around here, they disappeared for two reasons. One is because of the
data protection laws, the GPDR. Another is that they created a number
to call for that info that charged money for each query. Actually
several private services did this.
I don't know the current status.
That site has existed for a long time, it is https://www.therealyellowpages.com
100mbps is pretty slow by today's GB+ standards, but it's still good
enough to do the usual online biz and banking stuff in case of
emergency. Need JUST enough power to fire up the box and a laptop for
like 30 minutes a day.
On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap inChrist on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes
the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east
coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant.
overhead without a steel support core.
NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
Bzzt... No, wrong again.
Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
On 6/3/26 06:03, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-03 08:12, c186282 wrote:
Hmmmm ... by the 90s+ ... the number of connected customers
surely exceeded the number of practical wire pairs almost
everywhere. SOME kind of multiplexing scheme would have been
absolutely required.
NOT fully versed in that alas, a 'transitional' period, the exact
what/where/why/how is kinda obscure, hidden behind corporate
firewalls. DID work, but EXACTLY how is kinda obscure/proprietary/
guessed.
By the 90's, it was digital exchanges. The working I explained in
another post, it is not multiplexing. Simple concept, the
difficulty is the scale, and the details.
Wasn't digital EVERYWHERE. Maybe in larger cities.
On 2026-06-08 05:06, InterLinked wrote:
On 6/7/2026 8:44 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2026 20:40:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
This morning I was on a site that wanted my phone number and birth date
for ID. I was having a senior moment and couldn't remember the landline
number. There are sites like whitepages.com that supposedly function
like
the old white pages. It went off on a long search, prepared a report
with
everything I ever wanted to know about myself for a small sum, $11 iirc. >>> No simple phone number. I tried a couple of others and got the same sort >>> of bullshit. Finally one showed some teaser info with all but the last 4 >>> digits obscured. That's what I needed so thank you and FAFO.
I never did find a site that just does a simple landline phone number
lookup. I was going to try dialing 411 but I don't know if that's even a >>> thing anymore. 411.com is another useless site.
That site has existed for a long time, it is https://
www.therealyellowpages.com
If you look up a city, you can download PDFs of the Yellow Pages and
White Pages *exactly* as the print edition would appear, along with
other special sections like the Blue/Green pages. I have done that
many times. You can also do a simple search but I prefer to just
browse the actual PDF like I would the book. No Internet access
required and it's easier to do CTRL+F in the PDF then deal with the
website.
Around here, they disappeared for two reasons. One is because of the
data protection laws, the GPDR. Another is that they created a number to call for that info that charged money for each query. Actually several private services did this.
I don't know the current status.
On 2026-06-08 02:52, Rich wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is my fav, >>>> cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by "self" >>>> and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get to >>>> watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say
"THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle anymore.
You know, now that you mention it, my local grocery no longer has a "N
or less items" line as well.
I hadn't noticed the omission yet, but it is no longer there.
My big supermarket here, Carrefour, has converted the fast lane (baskets only, no carts) to self checkout lane. 6 machines and one overseer.
Works fine.
On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap inChrist on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes
the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east
coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant.
overhead without a steel support core.
NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
Bzzt... No, wrong again.
Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
But I don't live in the Big City.
There's always a steel cable somewhere, and
has always been one for a very long time. Either it is external, and
the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside
the PVC clad wire as the central core. But there is a steel cable
somewhere. Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of
self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much
of any tension in the cable at all. Physics dictates the steel cable
be present.
For not TOO long runs, the jacketing material plus
the copper are (usually) Strong Enough.
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 00:23:27 -0400, c186282 wrote:
100mbps is pretty slow by today's GB+ standards, but it's still good
enough to do the usual online biz and banking stuff in case of
emergency. Need JUST enough power to fire up the box and a laptop for
like 30 minutes a day.
Are you shitting me?
https://fiber.google.com/speedtest/ shows 6.5 Mbps down. https:// www.speedtest.net/ shows 3.59 Mbps down. Neither show upload which I
assume is related to the Verizon IP juggling.
I watch streaming movies and TV shows, youtube videos, and so forth with
no buffering, No, I don't have a houseful of kids playing HD games or streaming HD videos.
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>>>Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes
overhead without a steel support core.
NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
Bzzt... No, wrong again.
Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
Then you missed something.
On 2026-06-08, c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>>>Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes
overhead without a steel support core.
NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
Bzzt... No, wrong again.
Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
But I don't live in the Big City.
There's always a steel cable somewhere, and
has always been one for a very long time. Either it is external, and
the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside
the PVC clad wire as the central core. But there is a steel cable
somewhere. Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of
self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much
of any tension in the cable at all. Physics dictates the steel cable
be present.
For not TOO long runs, the jacketing material plus
the copper are (usually) Strong Enough.
Is there any chance the wire was steel with copper plating to
resist rusting/corrosion in case the plastic or rubber sheath
were to be damaged?
On 6/8/26 03:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-08 02:52, Rich wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is my fav, >>>>> cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by "self" >>>>> and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get to >>>>> watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say
"THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle
anymore.
You know, now that you mention it, my local grocery no longer has a "N
or less items" line as well.
I hadn't noticed the omission yet, but it is no longer there.
My big supermarket here, Carrefour, has converted the fast lane
(baskets only, no carts) to self checkout lane. 6 machines and one
overseer. Works fine.
No, not REALLY.
You WILL be claimed/charged/inconvenienced/blacklisted
as a "shop-lifter" pretty soon. It'll COST YOU and don't
expect to get much back. With face-ID the instant you
arrive the store dick will be shadowing you, SURE you
are sticking things into yer pockets. All they have to
do is SAY you were, the cops will be on their side.
Retailers are Big Money, you're NOT.
Increasing lawsuits related are why WalMart and some
others are REMOVING those 'self' lanes now.
MORE lawsuits ! MANY more !
Meanwhile I'll use the 'under-10' or 'over-10' human
tended lanes. Want humans, and cams, to see I'm being
honest. Don't wear coats/similar in there either even
if it's butt-freezin' cold.
Yea, it's a kind of war now.
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 00:23:27 -0400, c186282 wrote:
100mbps is pretty slow by today's GB+ standards, but it's still good
enough to do the usual online biz and banking stuff in case of
emergency. Need JUST enough power to fire up the box and a laptop for
like 30 minutes a day.
Are you shitting me?
https://fiber.google.com/speedtest/ shows 6.5 Mbps down. https:// www.speedtest.net/ shows 3.59 Mbps down. Neither show upload which I
assume is related to the Verizon IP juggling.
I watch streaming movies and TV shows, youtube videos, and so forth with
no buffering, No, I don't have a houseful of kids playing HD games or streaming HD videos.
On 2026-06-09 05:19, c186282 wrote:
On 6/8/26 03:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-08 02:52, Rich wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is my fav, >>>>>> cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by "self"
and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get >>>>>> to watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say
"THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle
anymore.
You know, now that you mention it, my local grocery no longer has a "N >>>> or less items" line as well.
I hadn't noticed the omission yet, but it is no longer there.
My big supermarket here, Carrefour, has converted the fast lane
(baskets only, no carts) to self checkout lane. 6 machines and one
overseer. Works fine.
No, not REALLY.
You WILL be claimed/charged/inconvenienced/blacklisted
as a "shop-lifter" pretty soon. It'll COST YOU and don't
expect to get much back. With face-ID the instant you
arrive the store dick will be shadowing you, SURE you
are sticking things into yer pockets. All they have to
do is SAY you were, the cops will be on their side.
Retailers are Big Money, you're NOT.
That's out in the colonies, not here :-P
No, they can not use face-id on the public, it is against the
GPDR. One place tried and they got a hefty fine.
Increasing lawsuits related are why WalMart and some
others are REMOVING those 'self' lanes now.
MORE lawsuits ! MANY more !
Meanwhile I'll use the 'under-10' or 'over-10' human
tended lanes. Want humans, and cams, to see I'm being
honest. Don't wear coats/similar in there either even
if it's butt-freezin' cold.
Yea, it's a kind of war now.
I often carry a bag into the supermarket with an insulated bag for
frozen or cold products, and inside, a block of ice in a sealed
plastic container. When I exit, I sometimes show it so that they know
the bag already contains something heavy when empty. Most employees
say something like "ah, don't bother". After several times being told
"don't care", I stopped showing it unasked.
Except a particular supermarket where they ask. It is a cooperative.
On 2026-06-08, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 00:23:27 -0400, c186282 wrote:
100mbps is pretty slow by today's GB+ standards, but it's still good
enough to do the usual online biz and banking stuff in case of
emergency. Need JUST enough power to fire up the box and a laptop for >>> like 30 minutes a day.
Are you shitting me?
https://fiber.google.com/speedtest/ shows 6.5 Mbps down. https://
www.speedtest.net/ shows 3.59 Mbps down. Neither show upload which I
assume is related to the Verizon IP juggling.
I watch streaming movies and TV shows, youtube videos, and so forth with
no buffering, No, I don't have a houseful of kids playing HD games or
streaming HD videos.
100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in
regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or
at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with
fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers.
As for video streaming, this has probably more to do with the codecs
used, which do allow a lot without using much bandwidth. Although
sometimes a few codecs to so at the expense of quite increased processor usage, possibly requiring hardware acceleration support for decent
playback.
On 6/8/26 12:50, Rich wrote:
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>>>>Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >>>>>> overhead without a steel support core.
NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. >>>>> Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
Bzzt... No, wrong again.
Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
Then you missed something.
Nope. Not at all.
I'm kind of "out in the country". They haven't
replaced wires for 30+ years. Multiple phone
feeds on the poles.
My GUESS is that, regardless of locale, "city"
is different from 'country'.
The old phone cables ... strong plastic jacket
plus SOMETIMES like a fiber under-wrap, were
strong enough to cope so long as the poles were
not TOO far apart. Hey, lowest-cost solution.
Wonder how much such "legacy" still exists ?
On 2026-06-09, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-09 05:19, c186282 wrote:
On 6/8/26 03:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-08 02:52, Rich wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is my fav,
cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by "self"
and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get >>>>>>> to watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say >>>>>>> "THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle
anymore.
You know, now that you mention it, my local grocery no longer has a "N >>>>> or less items" line as well.
I hadn't noticed the omission yet, but it is no longer there.
My big supermarket here, Carrefour, has converted the fast lane
(baskets only, no carts) to self checkout lane. 6 machines and one
overseer. Works fine.
No, not REALLY.
You WILL be claimed/charged/inconvenienced/blacklisted
as a "shop-lifter" pretty soon. It'll COST YOU and don't
expect to get much back. With face-ID the instant you
arrive the store dick will be shadowing you, SURE you
are sticking things into yer pockets. All they have to
do is SAY you were, the cops will be on their side.
Retailers are Big Money, you're NOT.
That's out in the colonies, not here :-P
No, they can not use face-id on the public, it is against the
GPDR. One place tried and they got a hefty fine.
Increasing lawsuits related are why WalMart and some
others are REMOVING those 'self' lanes now.
MORE lawsuits ! MANY more !
Meanwhile I'll use the 'under-10' or 'over-10' human
tended lanes. Want humans, and cams, to see I'm being
honest. Don't wear coats/similar in there either even
if it's butt-freezin' cold.
Yea, it's a kind of war now.
I often carry a bag into the supermarket with an insulated bag for
frozen or cold products, and inside, a block of ice in a sealed
plastic container. When I exit, I sometimes show it so that they know
the bag already contains something heavy when empty. Most employees
say something like "ah, don't bother". After several times being told
"don't care", I stopped showing it unasked.
Except a particular supermarket where they ask. It is a cooperative.
A lot of places where I shop don't do that nowadays, although a
decade or two ago some might have done that, but I will draw the line at whether they request it from everyone or just from specific
containers.
If they ask me about bags when people are around with purses and
backpacks and aren't asked, or if they ask about my backpack when people
with purses/handbags (maybe there's a better word for this...) don't get asked, you can imagine that's not something to be lightly accepted.
I guess the push to reuse bags might also have changed habits in stores
where staff used to inquire about their contents.
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into a supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from other
shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where they somehow expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go shop for something else, while the reality is that someone who's shopping for a
few items on the way home might have their handbag/backpack/... and also
a bag from the previous place they made business at.
(I've, funnily, got more inquiries because of books, as some lending libraries have used tags that also trigger store alarms :-) )
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into a supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from other
shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where they somehow expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go shop for something else, while the reality is that someone who's shopping for a
few items on the way home might have their handbag/backpack/... and also
a bag from the previous place they made business at.
Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez
45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ?
Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel
surfing' more 'traditional' TV.
100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in
regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or
at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with
fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers.
For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw
bandwidth. Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe
bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they
very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into a supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from other
shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where they somehow expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go shop for something else, while the reality is that someone who's shopping for a
few items on the way home might have their handbag/backpack/... and also
a bag from the previous place they made business at.
Kind of agree with the sentiment that copper should
always be at hand for 'emergency' communications at
a minimum. Towers die, cell contracts expire, copper
keeps on going.
In short, never throw away a good hardwire network.
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw
bandwidth. Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe
bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they
very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).
It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream
video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing a 45 rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it.
On 2026-06-09 05:19, c186282 wrote:
On 6/8/26 03:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-08 02:52, Rich wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is my fav, >>>>>> cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by >>>>>> "self"
and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get to >>>>>> watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say >>>>>> "THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle
anymore.
You know, now that you mention it, my local grocery no longer has a "N >>>> or less items" line as well.
I hadn't noticed the omission yet, but it is no longer there.
My big supermarket here, Carrefour, has converted the fast lane
(baskets only, no carts) to self checkout lane. 6 machines and one
overseer. Works fine.
No, not REALLY.
You WILL be claimed/charged/inconvenienced/blacklisted
as a "shop-lifter" pretty soon. It'll COST YOU and don't
expect to get much back. With face-ID the instant you
arrive the store dick will be shadowing you, SURE you
are sticking things into yer pockets. All they have to
do is SAY you were, the cops will be on their side.
Retailers are Big Money, you're NOT.
That's out in the colonies, not here :-P
No, they can not use face-id on the public, it is against the GPDR. One place tried and they got a hefty fine.
Increasing lawsuits related are why WalMart and some
others are REMOVING those 'self' lanes now.
MORE lawsuits ! MANY more !
Meanwhile I'll use the 'under-10' or 'over-10' human
tended lanes. Want humans, and cams, to see I'm being
honest. Don't wear coats/similar in there either even
if it's butt-freezin' cold.
Yea, it's a kind of war now.
I often carry a bag into the supermarket with an insulated bag for
frozen or cold products, and inside, a block of ice in a sealed plastic container. When I exit, I sometimes show it so that they know the bag already contains something heavy when empty. Most employees say
something like "ah, don't bother". After several times being told "don't care", I stopped showing it unasked.
Except a particular supermarket where they ask. It is a cooperative.
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/8/26 12:50, Rich wrote:
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>>>>>Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >>>>>>> overhead without a steel support core.
NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. >>>>>> Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
Bzzt... No, wrong again.
Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
Then you missed something.
Nope. Not at all.
I'm kind of "out in the country". They haven't
replaced wires for 30+ years. Multiple phone
feeds on the poles.
My GUESS is that, regardless of locale, "city"
is different from 'country'.
The old phone cables ... strong plastic jacket
plus SOMETIMES like a fiber under-wrap, were
strong enough to cope so long as the poles were
not TOO far apart. Hey, lowest-cost solution.
That 'fiber underwrap' was performing the same duties as the steel core
in the main pole wires. It is the "tension member" that takes the
tension stress of hanging between the poles. The copper, or the PVC
jacket, are not the components that handle that tension.
The smaller, single pair (or very small multi-pair) drop cables that go
to individual homes/buildings are under less tension than the main pole cables, so they can be cheaper by using a fiber tension member rather
than a steel cable. But the purpose is the same, to take the tension
load of being strung so that the copper wires do not have to do so.
Also, keep in mind that even telephone copper pairs were "twisted pair" wiring. What happens when you apply tension to a twisted pair? That's right, the twist tends to untwist. And untwisting the twist reduces
the noise immunity performance of the "twisted pairs". You simply do
not want the actual copper wires to receive any of the tension from
hanging in the air.
Wonder how much such "legacy" still exists ?
Out in the sticks, quite a lot of it, although it is now largely
disjoint bits and pieces connected to fully digital fiber connection
points for the rest of the backhaul.
On 2026-06-09 12:45, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2026-06-09, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-09 05:19, c186282 wrote:
On 6/8/26 03:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-08 02:52, Rich wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is >>>>>>>> my fav,
cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right by >>>>>>>> "self"
and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get >>>>>>>> to watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say >>>>>>>> "THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle
anymore.
You know, now that you mention it, my local grocery no longer has >>>>>> a "N
or less items" line as well.
I hadn't noticed the omission yet, but it is no longer there.
My big supermarket here, Carrefour, has converted the fast lane
(baskets only, no carts) to self checkout lane. 6 machines and one
overseer. Works fine.
No, not REALLY.
You WILL be claimed/charged/inconvenienced/blacklisted
as a "shop-lifter" pretty soon. It'll COST YOU and don't
expect to get much back. With face-ID the instant you
arrive the store dick will be shadowing you, SURE you
are sticking things into yer pockets. All they have to
do is SAY you were, the cops will be on their side.
Retailers are Big Money, you're NOT.
That's out in the colonies, not here :-P
No, they can not use face-id on the public, it is against the
GPDR. One place tried and they got a hefty fine.
Increasing lawsuits related are why WalMart and some
others are REMOVING those 'self' lanes now.
MORE lawsuits ! MANY more !
Meanwhile I'll use the 'under-10' or 'over-10' human
tended lanes. Want humans, and cams, to see I'm being
honest. Don't wear coats/similar in there either even
if it's butt-freezin' cold.
Yea, it's a kind of war now.
I often carry a bag into the supermarket with an insulated bag for
frozen or cold products, and inside, a block of ice in a sealed
plastic container. When I exit, I sometimes show it so that they know
the bag already contains something heavy when empty. Most employees
say something like "ah, don't bother". After several times being told
"don't care", I stopped showing it unasked.
Except a particular supermarket where they ask. It is a cooperative.
A lot of places where I shop don't do that nowadays, although a
decade or two ago some might have done that, but I will draw the line at
whether they request it from everyone or just from specific
containers.
If they ask me about bags when people are around with purses and
backpacks and aren't asked, or if they ask about my backpack when people
with purses/handbags (maybe there's a better word for this...) don't get
asked, you can imagine that's not something to be lightly accepted.
I guess the push to reuse bags might also have changed habits in stores
where staff used to inquire about their contents.
Indeed, it is a clearly reused shop bag. They had to change ways of
acting when they asked us to use them.
I don't make a fuss, if they want to see it, I show it it.
On 2026-06-09, Nuno Silva <[email protected]d> wrote:
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into a
supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from other
shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where they somehow
expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go shop for
something else, while the reality is that someone who's shopping for a
few items on the way home might have their handbag/backpack/... and also
a bag from the previous place they made business at.
In cases like that I make sure I have the receipt from the previous shop handy and ready to display.
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 02:36:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez
45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ?
I did see some improvement when Verizon put up a new tower a little
closer. Towers here follow population density and major highways. Fiber
and cable TV is the same.
Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel
surfing' more 'traditional' TV.
Last time I scanned I think I get 5 OTA channels, some with several
subbands. PBS has 4, maybe 5. One is strictly kid shows. I check it out Saturday night. Sometimes there is a Austin City Limits segment with
someone I'm interested in and there is a locally produced show that
features music that leans toward alt country, bluegrass, and so forth. Sometimes it's a German show with subtitles, and maybe a French one. At
least it sounds like French.
A couple of times PBS had nothing of interest and a quick scan would find
an old movie or something I would watch. Mostly it's a wasteland.
On Tue, 09 Jun 2026 11:30:06 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in
regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or
at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with
fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers.
I'm in a rural area and I do not expect fiber anytime soon if ever. They
lay fiber towards the areas that are undergoing development.
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw
bandwidth. Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe
bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they
very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).
It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream
video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing a 45 rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it.
On 6/9/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-09 12:45, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2026-06-09, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-09 05:19, c186282 wrote:
On 6/8/26 03:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-08 02:52, Rich wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I go to the food store maybe every ten days to
get a few items (now VERY expensive - but half of that is >>>>>>>>> my fav,
cashew nuts). It's always "10 items or less". Walk right >>>>>>>>> by "self"
and go to the 10-items lane instead. Get to say "Hi !", get >>>>>>>>> to watch
each item individually scanned by the employee. Get to say >>>>>>>>> "THANKS !"
and get a little smile. MUCH better.
Most of the stores in town don't have a 'n items or less' aisle >>>>>>>> anymore.
You know, now that you mention it, my local grocery no longer has >>>>>>> a "N
or less items" line as well.
I hadn't noticed the omission yet, but it is no longer there.
My big supermarket here, Carrefour, has converted the fast lane
(baskets only, no carts) to self checkout lane. 6 machines and one >>>>>> overseer. Works fine.
No, not REALLY.
You WILL be claimed/charged/inconvenienced/blacklisted
as a "shop-lifter" pretty soon. It'll COST YOU and don't
expect to get much back. With face-ID the instant you
arrive the store dick will be shadowing you, SURE you
are sticking things into yer pockets. All they have to
do is SAY you were, the cops will be on their side.
Retailers are Big Money, you're NOT.
That's out in the colonies, not here :-P
No, they can not use face-id on the public, it is against the
GPDR. One place tried and they got a hefty fine.
Increasing lawsuits related are why WalMart and some
others are REMOVING those 'self' lanes now.
MORE lawsuits ! MANY more !
Meanwhile I'll use the 'under-10' or 'over-10' human
tended lanes. Want humans, and cams, to see I'm being
honest. Don't wear coats/similar in there either even
if it's butt-freezin' cold.
Yea, it's a kind of war now.
I often carry a bag into the supermarket with an insulated bag for
frozen or cold products, and inside, a block of ice in a sealed
plastic container. When I exit, I sometimes show it so that they know
the bag already contains something heavy when empty. Most employees
say something like "ah, don't bother". After several times being told
"don't care", I stopped showing it unasked.
Except a particular supermarket where they ask. It is a cooperative.
A lot of places where I shop don't do that nowadays, although a
decade or two ago some might have done that, but I will draw the line at >>> whether they request it from everyone or just from specific
containers.
If they ask me about bags when people are around with purses and
backpacks and aren't asked, or if they ask about my backpack when people >>> with purses/handbags (maybe there's a better word for this...) don't get >>> asked, you can imagine that's not something to be lightly accepted.
I guess the push to reuse bags might also have changed habits in stores
where staff used to inquire about their contents.
Indeed, it is a clearly reused shop bag. They had to change ways of
acting when they asked us to use them.
I don't make a fuss, if they want to see it, I show it it.
If they don't like yer face they'll SWEAR you
stole it.
Still have the paper receipt ??? :-)
On 6/9/26 04:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-09 05:19, c186282 wrote:
On 6/8/26 03:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-08 02:52, Rich wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2026 23:38:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
My big supermarket here, Carrefour, has converted the fast lane
(baskets only, no carts) to self checkout lane. 6 machines and one
overseer. Works fine.
No, not REALLY.
You WILL be claimed/charged/inconvenienced/blacklisted
as a "shop-lifter" pretty soon. It'll COST YOU and don't
expect to get much back. With face-ID the instant you
arrive the store dick will be shadowing you, SURE you
are sticking things into yer pockets. All they have to
do is SAY you were, the cops will be on their side.
Retailers are Big Money, you're NOT.
That's out in the colonies, not here :-P
No, they can not use face-id on the public, it is against the GPDR.
One place tried and they got a hefty fine.
USA you can use face-ID on any one any time. The
State MAY sometimes be somewhat restricted but
commercial entities can do as they please. Our
'Bill Of Rights' applies to citizen-vs-State,
not citizen-vs-citizen.
Increasing lawsuits related are why WalMart and some
others are REMOVING those 'self' lanes now.
MORE lawsuits ! MANY more !
Meanwhile I'll use the 'under-10' or 'over-10' human
tended lanes. Want humans, and cams, to see I'm being
honest. Don't wear coats/similar in there either even
if it's butt-freezin' cold.
Yea, it's a kind of war now.
I often carry a bag into the supermarket with an insulated bag for
frozen or cold products, and inside, a block of ice in a sealed
plastic container. When I exit, I sometimes show it so that they know
the bag already contains something heavy when empty. Most employees
say something like "ah, don't bother". After several times being told
"don't care", I stopped showing it unasked.
Ah, so you ARE concerned about false accusations ... !
Except a particular supermarket where they ask. It is a cooperative.
Until they become sick of 'cooperative' ...
It's not just USA ... in the past decades citizens
are seen as the most sinister villains - which MAY
be correct too often now - with the State seen almost
as a high holy 'protector'. "Civility" has gone away,
maybe by Plan it sometimes appears.
A few recent news-making crimes in USA - now there
are people, not SURE who they work for, screaming
on the news that we need far MORE surveillance.
The world of Orwell didn't have to be imposed.
The All-Seeing Eye is no longer divine, but has
a corporate logo printed on.
This is NOT good.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase
a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor
Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Well - We Are There. GUESS how this plays out.
On 6/9/26 14:46, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw
bandwidth. Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe
bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they
very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).
It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream
video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing
a 45
rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it.
Oooh ! Never encountered THAT !
For me, 'inadequate bandwidth' is mostly just
random pauses, too-small buffers. You CAN enlarge
said buffers in the common browsers though.
YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials'
every five minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account.
Was trying to study pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ...
quit ... not worth the pain.
"PlutoTV" is OK however ... but DOES have more
conventional 'commercials' just like broadcast.
Esp good for 'old' TV shows. Even has the old
"Dr. Who" stuff - missed a LOT of those in the
USA ...
"DailyMotion" is SOMETIMES kind of OK, but does
not have nearly as much Stuff. Did find some
"Captain Video" serials from the 40s/50s though.
(Capt Video seems to work from some obscure
mountain stronghold, has a 'videotron' that
can see into things even from 50 miles away.
Tends to then go to obscure planets)
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 02:36:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:
--^^^^^^^^Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez
45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ?
I did see some improvement when Verizon put up a new tower a little
closer. Towers here follow population density and major highways. Fiber
and cable TV is the same.
Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel
surfing' more 'traditional' TV.
Last time I scanned I think I get 5 OTA channels, some with several subbands. PBS has 4, maybe 5. One is strictly kid shows. I check it out
On 2026-06-10 10:08, c186282 wrote:
YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials'
every five minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account.
Was trying to study pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ...
quit ... not worth the pain.
Just install "uBlock Origin" in Firefox and go to youtube. Works fine.
There are a couple of areas in town with high concentrations of
homeless that are pickier. The biggest annoyance is the restrooms
require a code that is printed on your receipt. It reminds me of a
book I read long ago, 'Black Like Me'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me
"In New Orleans, a black counterman at a small restaurant chatted
with Griffin about the difficulties of finding a place to go to the
bathroom, as facilities were segregated and blacks were prohibited
from many. He turned a question about a Catholic church into a joke
about "spending much of your time praying for a place to piss".
On 2026-06-09, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 02:36:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:--^^^^^^^^
Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez
45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ?
I did see some improvement when Verizon put up a new tower a little
closer. Towers here follow population density and major highways. Fiber
and cable TV is the same.
Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel
surfing' more 'traditional' TV.
Last time I scanned I think I get 5 OTA channels, some with several
subbands. PBS has 4, maybe 5. One is strictly kid shows. I check it out
I think these are called "programs" in DVB parlance?
(Which is confusing to me as they're what I'd call "channels", meanwhile "program" also collides with the usage for "show".
Might make slightly more sense in places where broadcasting is done by
TV broadcasters themselves, broadcasting only their own
channels-programs and not over a shared broadcasting infrastructure
where a DVB channel multiplexes TV channels that can be completely
unrelated.
I think another approach to this has been to call the DVB channels
"muxes" instead?)
Nuno Silva wrote:
I think another approach to this has been to call the DVB channels
"muxes" instead?)
Muxes would be a technical term. Multiplex.
We talk of channels in a multiplex, what before would be stations. Each--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
has an schedule, having programs, shows, movies, serials, etc.
On 6/9/26 14:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-06-09, Nuno Silva <[email protected]d> wrote:
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into
a supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from
other shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where they
somehow expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go
shop for something else, while the reality is that someone who's
shopping for a few items on the way home might have their
handbag/backpack/... and also a bag from the previous place they made
business at.
In cases like that I make sure I have the receipt from the previous
shop handy and ready to display.
I have giant bags/boxes of receipts, some back into the 80s. FINDING
a PARTICULAR one though ...
YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials' every five
minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account. Was trying to study
pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ...
quit ... not worth the pain.
I can get maybe 20-25 OTA channels, and DO have a little outdoor
antenna for that. Update the channel registry every so often.
Am 29.05.26 um 03:34 schrieb c186282:
In short, never throw away a good hardwire network.
The network is one part - the exchanges are the other. In Germany, the
old analog exchanges that had mechanical parts, were replaced by ISDN exchanges with analog port support for customers who wanted analog phone service. All of the product lines were discontinued years ago - getting spare parts is now a hard task. At one time, it will not be possible, as various different ICs and microprocessors were used - that are not
produced anymore.
Here in the land of coldhearted billionaires, we have enough homeless
people that most coffee shops and restaurant post signs in their windows saying "no public restrooms". The public parks lock their toilets at
night. And the private park [2] where we walk our dogs (because it is
mostly free of ryegrass - "foxtails" [1]) keep their outhouses locked
unless there is a "special event". Only the buildings with the flush
toilets by the soccer fields and the baseball fields are open most
days - a 10 minute walk away from the meadow areas where I usually walk.
I think these are called "programs" in DVB parlance?
(Which is confusing to me as they're what I'd call "channels", meanwhile "program" also collides with the usage for "show".
Might make slightly more sense in places where broadcasting is done by
TV broadcasters themselves, broadcasting only their own
channels-programs and not over a shared broadcasting infrastructure
where a DVB channel multiplexes TV channels that can be completely
unrelated.
I think another approach to this has been to call the DVB channels
"muxes"
instead?)
This is the part that c186282 seems to not be aware of (or be ignoring).
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 03:14:45 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 6/9/26 14:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-06-09, Nuno Silva <[email protected]d> wrote:
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into
a supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from
other shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where they >>>> somehow expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go
shop for something else, while the reality is that someone who's
shopping for a few items on the way home might have their
handbag/backpack/... and also a bag from the previous place they made
business at.
In cases like that I make sure I have the receipt from the previous
shop handy and ready to display.
I have giant bags/boxes of receipts, some back into the 80s. FINDING
a PARTICULAR one though ...
Receipts from retail purchases have a very short life with me. 'Do you
want the receipt for that sack of Friskies?' Like the cats are going to bitch about food and I'd want to return it.
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 03:14:45 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 6/9/26 14:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-06-09, Nuno Silva <[email protected]d> wrote:
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into
a supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from
other shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where they >>>> somehow expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go
shop for something else, while the reality is that someone who's
shopping for a few items on the way home might have their
handbag/backpack/... and also a bag from the previous place they made
business at.
In cases like that I make sure I have the receipt from the previous
shop handy and ready to display.
I have giant bags/boxes of receipts, some back into the 80s. FINDING
a PARTICULAR one though ...
Receipts from retail purchases have a very short life with me. 'Do you
want the receipt for that sack of Friskies?' Like the cats are going to bitch about food and I'd want to return it.
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 04:08:32 -0400, c186282 wrote:
YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials' every five
minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account. Was trying to study
pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ...
quit ... not worth the pain.
Maybe I live a charmed life but with Brave youtube commercials are so rare
as to be a surprise.
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 03:30:34 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I can get maybe 20-25 OTA channels, and DO have a little outdoor
antenna for that. Update the channel registry every so often.
I get 4. There used to be a religious channel but it didn't survive the digital conversion. My high tech digital antenna is a rabbit ears I bought back in the '90s that was designed to mount on the rain channel on a truck roof. The rotator is me twisting the PVC mast. I have the PBS orientation marked in case the wind blows the antenna around.
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 19:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
This is the part that c186282 seems to not be aware of (or be ignoring).
C123456 is quite good at ignoring inconvenient facts.
On 6/10/26 15:28, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 04:08:32 -0400, c186282 wrote:
YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials' every
five minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account. Was trying to
study pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ...
quit ... not worth the pain.
Maybe I live a charmed life but with Brave youtube commercials are so
rare as to be a surprise.
Never used it.
What tabs does 'Brave' keep on you ?
I spent a little extra and bought an 'eve mount' outdoor antenna and
pointed it at the more busy part of the state.
Have a slightly-better spare too, just in case.
On 2026-06-10, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 03:14:45 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 6/9/26 14:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-06-09, Nuno Silva <[email protected]d> wrote:
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into >>>>> a supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from
other shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where they >>>>> somehow expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go
shop for something else, while the reality is that someone who's
shopping for a few items on the way home might have their
handbag/backpack/... and also a bag from the previous place they made >>>>> business at.
In cases like that I make sure I have the receipt from the previous
shop handy and ready to display.
I have giant bags/boxes of receipts, some back into the 80s. FINDING >>> a PARTICULAR one though ...
Receipts from retail purchases have a very short life with me. 'Do you
want the receipt for that sack of Friskies?' Like the cats are going to
bitch about food and I'd want to return it.
I just stuff them in my wallet, and clean them out every few days.
They make great note paper.
On 6/10/26 15:25, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 03:14:45 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 6/9/26 14:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-06-09, Nuno Silva <[email protected]d> wrote:
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into >>>>> a supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from
other shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where they >>>>> somehow expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go
shop for something else, while the reality is that someone who's
shopping for a few items on the way home might have their
handbag/backpack/... and also a bag from the previous place they made >>>>> business at.
In cases like that I make sure I have the receipt from the previous
shop handy and ready to display.
I have giant bags/boxes of receipts, some back into the 80s. FINDING >>> a PARTICULAR one though ...
Receipts from retail purchases have a very short life with me. 'Do you
want the receipt for that sack of Friskies?' Like the cats are going to
bitch about food and I'd want to return it.
For the shit I buy from 7-11 ... really don't need to
keep 'em very long ... but I just automatically jam
them into a stack and thus they REMAIN. Think of them
as documentation for where I've been and when Just In Case.
For more 'capital' purchases and some other items, DO keep
'em for a decade or more.
Also have paperwork for stuff dead relatives bought.
Anyway, kinda decided, will NEVER really thin them out.
WAY too much work. Once I'm dead Somebody Else can toss
them en-masse. Not My Problem anymore.
"Well Mr. RBowman, can you account for where you were
on June 17th 2003 at 2PM ??? Why NOT sir ??? WE assert
you're hiding doing Evil Things then !!! PROVE your
innocence or we will proceed with the State's conclusions !"
Yea, it IS getting That Bad.
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 03:30:34 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I can get maybe 20-25 OTA channels, and DO have a little outdoor
antenna for that. Update the channel registry every so often.
I get 4. There used to be a religious channel but it didn't survive the digital conversion. My high tech digital antenna is a rabbit ears I bought back in the '90s that was designed to mount on the rain channel on a truck roof. The rotator is me twisting the PVC mast. I have the PBS orientation marked in case the wind blows the antenna around.
Marco Moock <[email protected]> wrote:
Am 29.05.26 um 03:34 schrieb c186282:
In short, never throw away a good hardwire network.
The network is one part - the exchanges are the other. In Germany, the
old analog exchanges that had mechanical parts, were replaced by ISDN
exchanges with analog port support for customers who wanted analog phone
service. All of the product lines were discontinued years ago - getting
spare parts is now a hard task. At one time, it will not be possible, as
various different ICs and microprocessors were used - that are not
produced anymore.
This is the part that c186282 seems to not be aware of (or be
ignoring).
The only "analog hardwire network" that exists for POTS phones is the
single wire from c186282's home to the point where that wire terminates
at a ADC/DAC in an exchange or concentrator. Everything else beyond
the other end (relative to c186282's home) of that small remaining bit
of twisted pair copper wire is all digital computer networking now.
On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 01:14:36 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I spent a little extra and bought an 'eve mount' outdoor antenna and
pointed it at the more busy part of the state.
Have a slightly-better spare too, just in case.
This is the busy part of the state. The next busy part is 350 miles as the very tired crow flies. The crow has to make it over the Continental Divide too.
On 2026-06-11 07:09, c186282 wrote:
On 6/10/26 15:25, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 03:14:45 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 6/9/26 14:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-06-09, Nuno Silva <[email protected]d> wrote:
There's also a matter that a world where you're expected to walk into >>>>>> a supermarket with nothing, no personal items and no products from >>>>>> other shops, might also be a world with a car-centric view, where >>>>>> they
somehow expect people don't need to have stuff on them when they go >>>>>> shop for something else, while the reality is that someone who's
shopping for a few items on the way home might have their
handbag/backpack/... and also a bag from the previous place they made >>>>>> business at.
In cases like that I make sure I have the receipt from the previous
shop handy and ready to display.
I have giant bags/boxes of receipts, some back into the 80s.
FINDING
a PARTICULAR one though ...
Receipts from retail purchases have a very short life with me. 'Do you
want the receipt for that sack of Friskies?' Like the cats are going to >>> bitch about food and I'd want to return it.
For the shit I buy from 7-11 ... really don't need to
keep 'em very long ... but I just automatically jam
them into a stack and thus they REMAIN. Think of them
as documentation for where I've been and when Just In Case.
For more 'capital' purchases and some other items, DO keep
'em for a decade or more.
Reminds me.
I normally write down the gasoline I buy into a calc sheet in my phone
(thus using Google Calc). I also write down the number of kilometres and
the litres used according to the car computer.
But now google says it can not sync the last changes and has lost a
month of entries. Now I want to find those paper slips!
Also have paperwork for stuff dead relatives bought.
Anyway, kinda decided, will NEVER really thin them out.
WAY too much work. Once I'm dead Somebody Else can toss
them en-masse. Not My Problem anymore.
"Well Mr. RBowman, can you account for where you were
on June 17th 2003 at 2PM ??? Why NOT sir ??? WE assert
you're hiding doing Evil Things then !!! PROVE your
innocence or we will proceed with the State's conclusions !"
Yea, it IS getting That Bad.
The USA is crumbling.
On 2026-06-10 21:39, Rich wrote:
Marco Moock <[email protected]> wrote:
Am 29.05.26 um 03:34 schrieb c186282:
In short, never throw away a good hardwire network.
The network is one part - the exchanges are the other. In Germany, the
old analog exchanges that had mechanical parts, were replaced by ISDN
exchanges with analog port support for customers who wanted analog phone >>> service. All of the product lines were discontinued years ago - getting
spare parts is now a hard task. At one time, it will not be possible, as >>> various different ICs and microprocessors were used - that are not
produced anymore.
This is the part that c186282 seems to not be aware of (or be
ignoring).
The only "analog hardwire network" that exists for POTS phones is the
single wire from c186282's home to the point where that wire terminates
at a ADC/DAC in an exchange or concentrator. Everything else beyond
the other end (relative to c186282's home) of that small remaining bit
of twisted pair copper wire is all digital computer networking now.
Now and since 1980..2000.
On 2026-06-10 21:37, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2026 03:30:34 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I can get maybe 20-25 OTA channels, and DO have a little outdoor
antenna for that. Update the channel registry every so often.
I get 4. There used to be a religious channel but it didn't survive the
digital conversion. My high tech digital antenna is a rabbit ears I bought >> back in the '90s that was designed to mount on the rain channel on a truck >> roof. The rotator is me twisting the PVC mast. I have the PBS orientation
marked in case the wind blows the antenna around.
Here we get maybe 50 channels from the same antena, all multiplexed
together. Digital transmission has that advantage.
On some locations we may tune two or three antenas, but all have the
same channels, except perhaps some local city channels.
On 6/11/26 05:09, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-10 21:39, Rich wrote:
Marco Moock <[email protected]> wrote:
Am 29.05.26 um 03:34 schrieb c186282:
In short, never throw away a good hardwire network.
The network is one part - the exchanges are the other. In Germany, the >>>> old analog exchanges that had mechanical parts, were replaced by ISDN
exchanges with analog port support for customers who wanted analog
phone
service. All of the product lines were discontinued years ago - getting >>>> spare parts is now a hard task. At one time, it will not be
possible, as
various different ICs and microprocessors were used - that are not
produced anymore.
This is the part that c186282 seems to not be aware of (or be
ignoring).
The only "analog hardwire network" that exists for POTS phones is the
single wire from c186282's home to the point where that wire terminates
at a ADC/DAC in an exchange or concentrator. Everything else beyond
the other end (relative to c186282's home) of that small remaining bit
of twisted pair copper wire is all digital computer networking now.
Now and since 1980..2000.
Don't CARE so long as working copper pairs
come into my house. Can relay thru space
alien networks down the street if they want.
They, for good reasons, ran out of end-to-end
copper pairs a LONG time ago. Multiplexing
schemes, soon digital, were required. Last
end-2-end ... watched those relays work in
the 1960s - school 'field trip'. LOVED those
connecting devices though, mechanical ART.
Hope they saved a few.
So, USA, further 'left' or 'right' take-over ? It
will be one or the other. 'Right' can be bad, but
'left' would be worse.
As said, I get about 25+ OTA channels, and that's mostly
from a bigger town about 70 miles away - not a gigantic city either.
Did you set your TV right for the search ? ALL of mine are now
digital channels.
On 2026-06-12 08:34, c186282 wrote:
On 6/11/26 05:09, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-06-10 21:39, Rich wrote:
Marco Moock <[email protected]> wrote:
Am 29.05.26 um 03:34 schrieb c186282:
In short, never throw away a good hardwire network.
The network is one part - the exchanges are the other. In Germany, the >>>>> old analog exchanges that had mechanical parts, were replaced by ISDN >>>>> exchanges with analog port support for customers who wanted analog
phone
service. All of the product lines were discontinued years ago -
getting
spare parts is now a hard task. At one time, it will not be
possible, as
various different ICs and microprocessors were used - that are not
produced anymore.
This is the part that c186282 seems to not be aware of (or be
ignoring).
The only "analog hardwire network" that exists for POTS phones is the
single wire from c186282's home to the point where that wire terminates >>>> at a ADC/DAC in an exchange or concentrator. Everything else beyond
the other end (relative to c186282's home) of that small remaining bit >>>> of twisted pair copper wire is all digital computer networking now.
Now and since 1980..2000.
Don't CARE so long as working copper pairs
come into my house. Can relay thru space
alien networks down the street if they want.
They, for good reasons, ran out of end-to-end
copper pairs a LONG time ago. Multiplexing
schemes, soon digital, were required. Last
end-2-end ... watched those relays work in
the 1960s - school 'field trip'. LOVED those
connecting devices though, mechanical ART.
Hope they saved a few.
Copper pairs were always for relatively short distances. Long distance
were done with frequency multiplexing, maybe since the 50's or 60's. It
is impossible to do some distance with copper pairs. Not because they
ran out of them, but because it is not feasible.
On 6/2/2026 10:46 PM, Rich wrote:
Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 2026-06-01 15:19, Rich wrote:
rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my >>>>>> landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ... >>>>>There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can
see them
saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it >>>>> isn't a huge deal.
The two are no longer inseperable as they were when Ma-Bell was a
single monopoly.
You can (or at least you very well should be able to) have local
service from CenturyLink without long distance from AT&T.
I never bought long distance service for my POTS line, it was local
only. And the only issue that ever occurred is I could not make
direct-dialed long distance calls. For the once in five years I ever >>>> needed to do so I solved the problem using one of those old "calling
cards" services.
And Verizon never had any issues with no LD service.
The number is now connected to a VOIP provider, so I get "anywhere in
the USA" calling for the exact same price as every other call (the very >>>> concept of 'long distance' eroded decades ago, not that the 'long
distance' carriers ever bothered to inform anyone of that fact).
No, mine keeps charging long distance fares :-(
Well, I can call anyone on Spain for free, but not outside.
And they keep secret the VoIP configuration.
The AT&T breakup here in the USA back in the early 80's separated (as
in completely severed) the connection between "local phone service" and
"long distance" service. The old AT&T "local offices" became the "baby
bells" (Verizon, Pacific Bell, other's I've forgotten the names of
now). The old AT&T long distance portion became a "long distance
provider" but phone subscribers (who still had to use a baby-bell for
phone service) were no longer required to have long distance service.
It sounds like Spain works a bit differently than what formed here in
the US.
In my case, I moved my Verizon phone number to voip.ms (a VOIP
provider). Instead of, IIRC, about $45/month at the time for Verizon
POTS service I pay the VOIP provider about $2/month. That is for
"metered VOIP", so all calls incur a per minute charge (something like
$0.001/minute, i.e. so small as to be nearly zero). But I can call my
next door neighbor, or someone in Hawaii or Alaska (very long way away)
for the same $0.001/minute. They do offer an 'unmetered' plan as well,
but it runs something like $15/month or $19/month, and I seldom ever
make or receive phone calls, so paying for 'unmetered' just didn't make
sense in my case.
But this is conflating with regulated facilities based phone service
with unregulated over the top services. Also, they are not mutually exclusive. I have over 70 phone numbers myself through IP-based CLECs
and thousands of minutes of call volume flow monthly through various Asterisk systems of mine for me and other folks. But I still keep the regulated POTS line because it serves a fundamentally different purpose. VoIP is great for cheap phone calls that are fine if they are best-
effort, drop a few packets, etc. etc. Relying on "cheap" stuff for life/ death situations is a different matter.
Quality is another factor. Verizon's 5c/min long-distance plan is TDM- based, very good quality that is hard to match with VoIP services. I
don't use it much, but I will often use it if I know I'm calling another POTS line. If I'm calling a VoIP or wireless number, then it's not worth
the cost since the quality will suck anyways, and I send the call
through a VoIP carrier.
(And sometimes, I use them in tandem; placing a call to one of my VoIP numbers over the POTS line and then terminating the call often results
in a noticeably better connection than doing "over the top VoIP" using a residential broadband connection.)
I realize that most people these days don't care about voice quality and
are quite happy with poor quality VoIP services or cell phones. I think
a lot of people have forgotten or don't even know what good quality
phone calls even sound like.
| Sysop: | DaiTengu |
|---|---|
| Location: | Appleton, WI |
| Users: | 1,123 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 34:33:39 |
| Calls: | 14,371 |
| Files: | 186,380 |
| D/L today: |
1,058 files (298M bytes) |
| Messages: | 2,540,615 |